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Newbie - choosing between volt, bmw i3, and tesla M3

10K views 102 replies 28 participants last post by  Bacardi 
#1 ·
Greetings from Los Angeles!

I'm tired of giving my money to the oil companies. They are singlehandedly endangering the human race, they've been lying to us for years, filling our government with their puppets, and polluting our world so they they can enrich themselves. I want to vote against them with my dollars.

I've always been a big tesla fan, and have been eagerly awaiting the Model 3, for which I've put down a $1000 deposit and have a good spot in the reservation line.

But as the release date approaches, I have a few questions in my mind.
One is the tax credits - will they still be available?
Another is tesla build quality. I've heard a lot of horror stories.
I'm also not crazy about the M3's interior. No driver instrument cluster? That giant computer monitor? I want a high tech car, but I don't see why that means I have to have a giant screen in my face when I drive.
Also I think they tesla supercharger network will be overwhelmed by the coming wave of teslas, meaning those long distance trips you imagine won't be possible in reality.
I've also never bought a new car. I prefer to let someone else take the depreciation and buy it when its 2-3 years used. I'm unsure what the depreciation on the M3s will be, and I'm wondering if I'd be smarter waiting a couple years and then grabbing a used one.

So my alternate options are a used 2014-15 volt or a used BMW i3.
Both of these have depreciated rapidly and are much more affordable for me. In fact I could get one of each for the price of a new tesla M3.
I test drove the i3 and loved it, as well as the interior design. I hated the exterior at first, but I've come to kind of like it.
As for the volt, I like the old gen1 design much more than the new design, which is far more bland to me. Gen2 Looks like a an old person car or rental fleet car to me.
I haven't test driven one yet, but I'm not expecting it to be as fun as the i3, but I know it would be much more useful, without the i3's long distance limitations, and still allow me to commute to work without using any gas.

The other consideration is my fiance HATES the way the i3 looks. Doesn't care for the volt either, but doesn't think it's as bad as the i3. Obviously she'd rather be escorted around in a new tesla. Women and their competitive consumerism ;)

So I'm just here to learn more and help me make my decision by the time the Tesla M3 comes out.
 
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#2 ·
The Volt is the simplest option - due to the dual fuel nature of the car, it can drop in to anyone's life with no changes, and gradually convert them to mostly electric driving. They are solid cars that have served people well.

We'll have to see how the 3 interior plays out - I'm still betting there will be major changes for the actual production car - possibly a big augmented reality HUD.

Tesla reliability stories are overblown - build quality has improved over time, and the core of the cars mostly wasn't problematic anyway (though Tesla replaced a lot of still functional drive unit for noises - drive units that are a lot different from what most Teslas now have.)

There is a real problem getting repair parts for crashed cars at the moment, but that won't necessarily continue.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Superchargers - Tesla has promised to double the number this year, and 90% of charging is at home/work anyway. They are now doing real time status in the car's navigation system, and in the future I expect to see them actively adjusting Nav routing and supercharger targets to deconflict routes.

Not really a fan of the i3. It could have been a great car, but came out weird and oddly limited, with a checkered reliability and odd exterior and interior in my opinion.
 
#20 ·
possibly a big augmented reality HUD.
Aftermarket obdii huds exist today; if you just want obdii info they're all over ebay/amazon for under $30 shipped...Then there are others with built in maps or gestures, while they are hundreds of dollars, to get OEM HUDs often you needed top trim and option packages to get the feature...

Buy a Bolt and get tax credit.
If he qualifies for the tax credit...Same could be said about the Volt or any other EV/PHEV...

Get a non-materialistic fiance that says "Get whatever you want. It's your car and your money."

(now if she is a sugar-mama and it is HER money, scratch what I said and practice the phrase, "yes, dear".)

The i3 was designed as a European city car. The Volt and Bolt were designed for American commuters. The M3 is still just a promise.

The Gen1 Volt is the best deal going IMO. Inexpensive, reliable, fun, good for the environment and giving the finger to OPEC.
If you want a fun and fit girl in L.A., most tend to have some materialistic qualities and while might not be after you for your money, they have the expectation that their man is able to provide for them...
 
#4 ·
Interesting that the Bolt isn't on your list but the M3 is. The Bolts are available right now and the M3 isn't.
I wondered the same. Take a Bolt EV test drive at least. Same for the Volt.
 
#5 ·
Agree with Saghost

Voting with the pocketbook is the best way. Start now.

I would go with 2015 Volt premier for the reason you stated then get a used Model 3 later. Don't wait. You will enjoy the performance.

Not a fan of the i3 either.

Based on some article I read, the model 3 for the most part will not be here soon enough to take advantage of the Tax Rebate.
 
#6 ·
The Volt is a no excuses car for getting your feet wet in EV driving.
It would serve you well for a few years until the M3 is available to you.

A Bolt with DCFC would give you M3 functionality now,,, almost. The DCFC network is increasing all the time.
The Tesla SC network will not be free for M3's. Road trips may cost very similar with these two EV's. But one is here and now.

Since you and her are into 'Looks', you'll just have to fight it out!:p
 
#8 ·
A Bolt with DCFC would give you M3 functionality now,,, almost. The DCFC network is increasing all the time.
The Tesla SC network will not be free for M3's. Road trips may cost very similar with these two EV's. But one is here and now.
With respect, I don't agree with this at all. So far the fastest demonstrated Bolt charging is around 45 kW - less than half of what the 3 will probably manage on Superchargers, and really too slow for convenient road trips. The ramp also seems pretty ugly as SoC rises.

Tesla is including 400 kWh/year free on the S and X now and will probably do the same on the 3 - that'll cover a thousand miles of road trips. Even after that, Tesla's rates are a fraction of any other DCFC I've seen, despite being much faster charging on a bigger network. They mostly seem to be about 20% above what residential power costs in the various areas - and about half what most DCFC vendors charge.

The Bolt doesn't have onboard Nav or adaptive cruise control even as options, but every 3 will have second generation Autopilot Hardware, and over the air updates will make it a better car as time goes on (GM said they can do those now on the Bolt - we'll see how committed they are to actually make it happen.) DCFC is actually an option on the Bolt?!?

So yes, the Bolt seems to be a good car, and is here now - but no, it isn't almost the functionality of the 3 except in the very basic 200+ mile sub $40k EV part in my opinion, and no, road trips aren't likely to be equally easy or equally expensive.
 
#9 ·
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the build quality of either generation Volt. There are major upgrades with the gen 2 that depending on your lifestyle you may really benefit from (more electric range, better gas mpg using regular instead of premium, Apple Carplay/Android Carplay, etc.) but if you don't plan on using much gas anyway, then the range and premium gas penalty may be acceptable to you and you'd get out with a cheaper purchase price on the gen 1. I have both and can say I honestly love both of them. If I absolutely had to pick a favorite, it would be the gen 2 because of the upgrades, but I'm still in love with my gen 1 as well.
 
#10 ·
Get a non-materialistic fiance that says "Get whatever you want. It's your car and your money."

(now if she is a sugar-mama and it is HER money, scratch what I said and practice the phrase, "yes, dear".)

The i3 was designed as a European city car. The Volt and Bolt were designed for American commuters. The M3 is still just a promise.

The Gen1 Volt is the best deal going IMO. Inexpensive, reliable, fun, good for the environment and giving the finger to OPEC.
 
#14 ·
If your commute is under 30 miles round trip, and you have access to a 120v outlet at home, for you the 2011-2015 Volt will act like an EV but with more punch than a Leaf has. And no range anxiety, ever. A Volt is significantly quicker than Prius and more nimble.
They love stop-n-go traffic which often increases your range instead of decreasing it.

And you get a HOV sticker that allows you to drive the HOV lanes without a passenger.

Nobody has a clue what Tesla Motors will ship as a 2018 Model 3. Or a 2018 Volt. Or a 2018 Bolt.

What we do know is GM's specs for the Volts and Bolts are unlikely to downgrade. The Model 3? Anybodies guess. I do not think they will be able to make $35k high HP 215 mile range cars in 9 months. But I never expected them to when I reserved on day one.

No, you will not get free supercharging on Model 3's unless something changes. It will have Supercharging hardware on the car, but the supercharger stations will cost you money after 400kWh(?) or so they say.
 
#15 · (Edited)
No, you will not get free supercharging on Model 3's unless something changes. It will have Supercharging hardware on the car, but the supercharger stations will cost you money after 400kWh(?) or so they say.
It says free supercharging is over for models ordered before 2016.
So placing a reservation in 2016 doesn't count as placing an order? Bummer.
 
#22 ·
The Prime has some pretty impressive driver assistance features standard on all trims, including adaptive cruise and limited lane keeping. It still isn't a great EV, with limited EV power and range (though both are much better than the first generation.) That rear window and spoiler take some getting used to I suspect...
 
#28 ·
The BMW I8 would probably impress them more than the Teslas
 
#29 · (Edited)
We have both an i3 and Volt now. Both 2017's and both with range extenders.

My wife didn't like the i3's looks either at first. Now it's grown on her. She also really likes the Volt's looks and thinks it's quiet and comfortable.

The i3 is definitely far sportier in feel to me. It feels nimbler, quicker in reaction, and lighter on its feet. Mostly because it is. It's some 600 lbs lighter than the Volt at least.

You also sit up taller and have a far better view out the windows than you do with the Volt. So it feels more airy and open than the Volt does.

I personally am not a big fan of how the Volt feels or drives. It's smooth, competent, and quick. But it doesn't feel nimble, is a bare to park for me (you will most definitely get rim rash and dings and dents with this car at the extremities), charges slower, carries more dead-weight around, and has a smaller tighter feeling cabin than the i3.

On the other hand, the i3 has its own quirks. The infotainment system is incredibly bad compared to the Volt's. Truly truly bad interface IMO. The inability to reduce strong regen can be tiring at times but helpful in stop and go traffic. The suicide doors are novel but get a bit old after a while...but they match this car well.

Obviously you can go a lot further overall with the Volt. But for 2017, the i3 can do 114 miles EPA rated electric range. We are getting around 130 per charge. However, I'm getting about 75 miles per charge with my Volt. But it charges agonizingly slowly....pitiful actually in this day and age.

The reliability of the i3 is fine. I know there have been a couple of recalls and an issue with the REX model. But BMW takes care of these things quickly and offers good service to its customers provided you find a good dealer. Chevy dealers on the other hand are a real crap shoot.

Has your fiancé driven the i3? It's a really really fun car to drive.

BTW, what's your budget? Would you be willing to lease a new car and just get the State credit? I got a very good deal on our i3...actually considering the sticker price and the fact that no other BMW dealer was able or willing to even come close.
 
#35 ·
We have both an i3 and Volt now. Both 2017's and both with range extenders.

... The i3 is definitely far sportier in feel to me... It feels nimbler, quicker in reaction, and lighter on its feet. Mostly because it is. It's some 600 lbs lighter than the Volt at least...

Obviously you can go a lot further overall with the Volt. But for 2017, the i3 can do 114 miles EPA rated electric range. We are getting around 130 per charge. However, I'm getting about 75 miles per charge with my Volt. But it charges agonizingly slowly....pitiful actually in this day and age.
Wow, you have both the 2017 i3 REx and the 2017 Volt! That's some heavy duty EV technology! The i3 should charge 2x faster than the Volt 32Amps vs 16Amps max, and the REx has DCFC. Have you used public charging at all for either of your EVs?
 
#36 ·
The M3 might be the best car in several ways, but I would personally rule it out based on the unknown waiting period. You don't really know when production will start, how quickly it will ramp up, or how many buyers are really in front of you. You also don't know what the price will be or if they will be optioned up to an unreasonable level. I also think it is doubtful that the tax credit will not have run out by then (if it is not cancelled all together before).

I think you should decide from the other choices and then consider the M3 for your next car. Unless you are perfectly happy with your current car and it is still relatively new.
 
#39 ·
My current car is an Infinity G35 with 100k miles. It's still a good car so I'm not under immediate pressure to replace it, but it's just starting to come into that phase where repairs will become more expensive and more frequent. This is the time when I usually like to let a car go. I prefer to be the second owner and keep them from about 20k-110k. It's been a good car but I want to go electric.

I think I'll wait to make my final decision until I find out my place in line for the M3, find out what my tax credit would be, and maybe even get to test drive the M3. In the meantime I want to test the Gen1 volt and figure out my backup plan.
 
#38 · (Edited)
"I don't understand why anyone who really weighed all the options would even consider the i3. "

Well I drove one last weekend and it really impressed me. Driving dynamics are really important to me. The handling and acceleration were fun. I love the roomy airy interior styling. The harman kardon stereo. The tech package with adaptive cruise control. Lots of bells and whistles that come on a luxury car. And the fact that they are so cheap right now makes it really tempting. I live in a warm climate so I'd get the most out of the small battery.

We would have another car for long commutes. It would just be our city car.

I still need to test drive the gen1 volt to make a fair comparison. The used gen1 volt is even cheaper than the used i3.

One problem is I'm VERY picky about which volt I want. The ONLY one I'd buy would be a 2013-2015 black Gen1, with beige leather and bose stereo. This particular setup seems to be very rare on autotrader and cars.com. There are plenty with black leather interiors, but I've had a black/black car before and it just got too hot inside in a warm climate like socal.
 
#45 ·
There will be NO comparison between the Gen1 Volt and the i3....so IMO don't waste your time even comparing the two. Other than saving money if you buy both outright, I would take the i3 in a heartbeat. The Gen 2 Volt is a much better car IMO than the Gen 1 in every way. Quality, styling, comfort, performance, etc.

I would much rather lease a new Volt than buy an used Gen 1.
 
#49 ·
Even with your early place in line, the Model 3 could easily be 18 months away for you. That wait may be a deal breaker or no big deal for you - only you can decide on that. I share your affinity for the i3's fun to drive character based on my own 3 day test drive. It's unconventional looks (OK, it's basically ugly) also put it in the "interesting" column for me (although when, on the rare occasion, I spot one on the road I do find the adjectives "ugly" and "dorky" come to mind more than "unconventionally cool").

Unfortunately, for me it was the "drive" that also took the i3 off the list. It has a choppy ride at low speeds and both you and your passengers will get to enjoy head-toss on all but the smoothest of roads. BMW just got the suspension tuning wrong on this car with its crazy short wheel base (note: I've owned 5 BMWs - 2 of which were M cars). The freeway handling is also darty and the car is just not an "easy drive" at speed. These same comments appear on the BMW i3 FB page from owners.

Beyond the ride quality, the suicide doors are comedy gold. They are cool when you are showing them off to your friends and basically stink the rest of the time.

I still have a soft spot for the i3, but always struggle to pull the trigger on one. The used ones are a good deal though if you can live with the limitations (p.s. I would only consider a Rex when with the issues it brings to the table).
 
#52 ·
I was in a similar quandary. And I came from driving Lexus and volvo.

The M3 was not an option. I'm not paying a damn cent for something does not exist yet.

The i3 was nice. It's faster and handles better than the Volt. But the price premium was hard to justify. The back seat is a joke. The interior is weird and the exterior weirder. Not that the new model with the bigger battery makes the i3 more compelling.

The Volt offered the best balance of range, price and features. It also looks good in black with the two tone interior.

Note that you have more options now: the Bolt, and the improved Focus Electric.
 
#53 ·
Meh. If I'm paying full price for a new EV, it's going to be the M3. Nothing else looks good enough for me to justify paying the premium and the depreciation.
The bolt looks like a honda fit, like it was designed by a boardroom of cautious investors. The focus is slow and boring looking.

I admit I'm superficial and looks are important to me. Tesla is the only sexy electric car. I've decided I could live with the looks of a Gen1 volt too, but Gen2 is also too boring looking.

I know the i3 looks odd, but almost so odd that I like it.

But I'm glad there are more options out there which drives down the price, and that a second-owner market is starting to emerge for people like me.
 
#61 ·
I'd stay away from the i3. It's an ok EV, but the REX version is almost a joke. It only adds 70 miles and performs poorly on inclines.

The Model 3 will likely be the EV King. Even as more Tesla cars hit the road, the new rules for the super chargers should help keep them rotating efficiently. You get fined for every minute that your Tesla stays on the super charger after fully charged. The fines will help pay for my charging stations. I'd honestly wait for that car.

If you can't wait. Chevy Bolt w/ DC fast charge (Honestly, don't get one without this option). In my opinion, the Bolt looks kinda boring, but 240 EV miles is pretty awesome.

For best ease-of-use. Chevy Volt. It looks like a fancy Malibu but its still a great car.

For best wallet friendliness. Used Gen 1 Volt. Preferably 2014-15.
 
#62 ·
I have already found one disabled i3 on the road because it was allowed to run out of electricity. It was during a cold winter day with a heavy snowstorm over Vail Pass. I had no problem getting to and from work in my Volt because there was a charging station within one mile and six miles of the stranded i3. The owner of the i3 failed to consider the adverse weather effects on the electric battery pack range. Furthermore, the owner failed to map-out the location of charging stations along the I-70 corridor. With my Volt, I do not need to research every charging station and can choose my routes without limitations of available charging stations. I took a 4,000-mile trip in remote areas of the northern Rocky Mountains last summer and never needed to charge my battery pack. I still got more than 40 MPG. You cannot travel freely in any all-electric vehicle. I took a three-hour trip over to Aspen last weekend for the World Cup Finals. I got about 100 MPG by hiking a mile from a charging station to my hotel for one full charge that took a few hours, then taking a healthy run to cover the mile to pick-up my vehicle again. You must consider the constant inconvenience posed by an all-electric vehicle. I do not need to be desperate in the Volt when a charging station is occupied. However, I hike more than a half-mile every day to charge my vehicle. During some peak times, the charging station in my area is fully occupied. Also, I lose sleep waiting for my vehicle to charge some nights.
 
#70 ·
For starters, the i3 REX isn't an all electric vehicle. Second, people who do drive all-electric vehicles are aptly aware of the inconveniences they may pose. Third, the examples some of you give about the shortcomings of an i3 are ludicrous given that ANY all-electric vehicle would have the same issues and shortcomings.

The example you sighted was more of a problem due to the owner not the car. The i3 is capable of what it's capable of....anymore and the driver is putting him/herself in a difficult situation.

The same i3 REX would do just as well as any Volt if you assume you are going to use fuel and top off the gas tank.

People bash the i3 for no really good reason other than they don't like the car.

The looks topic is subjective. Some like the i3's looks some don't. Some like the Volt's looks and think it looks slick, others think it's a typical rental car that you'd get when going to Vegas.
 
#67 ·
The way some of you guys go on and on about "Looks" you'd think this was a thread for women buying shoes.:confused:

When a man is driving an EV he can't see these 'looks'. He experiences the performance and functionality of the 'Specs' of an EV.

As said above in this silly long thread:
"There are no rights and wrongs in matters of art and style".

But carry on girls! Maybe us guys can learn something!;)

(My car looks like it was styled by an angry anime artist. Maybe that's why I have this disregard for 'Looks'....:p )
 
#71 ·
Why do I exercise, diet, buy any clothing that I can't get at walmart, shave or waste money on haircuts? If I ever find a mirror I'll just turn my head as I wouldn't want to see my looks...I'd be a millionaire in no time! Yet, when I play beach volleyball with all the bikini clad babes, I'd be the fat creepy guy that they'll be disgusted by...
 
#68 ·
For all around performance, styling, comfort, price, availability and anxiety-free range wherever you want to drive the Volt takes the electric car prize.
 
#97 ·
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