Solar Charging, from an owners perspective

[MTN Ranger]

Exactly. There are intangible benefits to the community and other taxpayers that come from solar incentives. Health, environment, grid enhancement and economic growth all come into play for the 20-30 year life a the solar installation.

http://planetsave.com/2011/07/01/cos...f-solar-power/

[larry4pyro]

We installed a moderately sized 3.4 kw PV system a little more than 5 years ago. The system was sized to offset our electrical usage, however we quickly found that we were producing about 25% more power than we actually used. The system produces a bit over 4 mwh a year and we were using less than 3 mwh. Until last year the excess power was simply given to the utility (we are on a net metering arrangement) with no compensation in return. They now buy the excess power for something around 11 cents a kwh, but I found a better use for the power by purchasing a Volt. The 1.1 mwh of excess power is enough to drive my Volt about 3600 miles.

In our case we took out a home equity loan for the system. We figure what we pay on interest is about what we used to pay for electricity so no hugh savings but no big financial loss either, plus it feels good to be more self sufficient.

If you are considering a PV system I have a couple of suggestions, first enter into a net metering agreement with your utility. Basically during the day you supply power to the grid and spin you meter backwards, at night you draw off the grid and spin you meter forwards. The other suggestion is install an inverter larger than you need. A higher capacity inverter is a bit more expensive but is a lot cheaper if you someday add additional solar panels. Having said that, my installer told me that the I will not be eligible for Federal and state rebates if I want to expand the system. I don't know if this is true, but its academic since my system is pretty much maxed out.

[jeffhre]

I guess the other PV installation investors (US tax payers, AZ tax payers, APS customers & investors) don't exist? We do get something for our investment, so we should be included in the investment analysis.

VIN # 0985

Yes it is important for you to calculate the return on your investments to see if they meet your goals. Do you feel that you are getting a suitable return on the .00015 cents that you have invested on solar_dave's installation? OK not entirely serious with this one, but the other way to structure the analysis is to picture yourself as a class of investors known as taxpayers - and that only leads down a rats hole of speculation based on anecdotal experiences

[solar_dave]

I guess the other PV installation investors (US tax payers, AZ tax payers, APS customers & investors) don't exist? We do get something for our investment, so we should be included in the investment analysis.

VIN # 0985

That sound a bit like sour grapes, you have the same rights to add solar to your electric install as I did. Government needs to do thing that are good for society and should do things that are both positive for the environment and influence social good behavior. How about your tax credit on the Volt, how is that any different?

To often government pisses money into earmarks that benefit very few, the bridge to nowhere comes to mind. How about all the foriegn aid that goes to places like Pakistan. Where is your ROI on that? At least this has some socially redeeming value, employs local work force and does the right thing for the environment.

[Uncle Rollo]

So how many kwh does your set up produce in a months time on average? How much electricty were you getting for $4000 (in kwh) I use about 2400kwh per month. More than average I know, but my home is entirely electric and heated/cooled with geothermal. My electricty runs about $0.10/kwh. Just wondering how that compares to your setup. A 5 year ROI would be fantastic. It suprises me that the green industry isn't advertising the fact that the ROI could be anything less than 10 years. My research has shown the cost to be like what yours was pre rebates. That scares me off. I have thought about solar or wind but havent grasped how to size it and to know what rebates are available here in Ohio. No Volt yet, but my next car will in all likelyhood be a Volt or its variant!

[cbonsig]

I'm also planning a solar installation while waiting for delivery of a 2012 volt. In northern California, PG&E has several different types of time-of-use rates available. They have a spreadsheet based plug-in electric car calculator available for comparing E-6, E-9A, and E-9B rate plans, as mentioned above. Little information can be found anywhere to understand if E-6 or E-9 plans are more favorable for customers with solar and a PEV. I did some homework of my own to figure it out - follow the link below for all the gory details. Spoiler: E-6 wins by about $40/year with my projected usage.

http://craig.bonsignore.com/2011/07/...se-rate-plans/

[AZ EV Driver]

That sound a bit like sour grapes, you have the same rights to add solar to your electric install as I did.

Just trying to include those investors that paid for the other 3/4 of the cost. You are absolutely right, I can install a PV system as you have. I've considered it, but felt the cost to me and society was too high. Reminds me of a neighbor who owns a Chevy Suburban and a Chevy pickup both were purchased as "alternative fuel vehicles" during the famous Arizona program. They were practically free and he only has to pay about $25/year for the niffty cloud license plates, at the same time he doesn't have to actually use propane. Sweet deal.

Government needs to do thing that are good for society and should do things that are both positive for the environment and influence social good behavior.

These are not comments of a capitalist.

How about your tax credit on the Volt, how is that any different?

It isn't different. I will have to withdraw additional monies from my IRA to get my tax liability high enough to utilize all of the credit. I'm trying to determine if that withdrawal will harm the future investment growth too much. So the jury is still out.

VIN # 0985

[DonC]

Just trying to include those investors that paid for the other 3/4 of the cost. You are absolutely right, I can install a PV system as you have. I've considered it, but felt the cost to me and society was too high.

This argument is so annoying. If you're considering a PV system then you must own a house. Did you ever have a mortgage on that house? If you did, did you ever consider "the costs to society" of having me pay for you house. (I pay for your mortgage deduction the same way you pay for my PV tax credit). Did you ever sell a stock for profit? If you did, did you consider the "cost to society" of having me pay for your lower tax rate which increased your ROI? Did you ever sell a house? If you did, did you consider the "cost to society" of having me pay for your not paying taxes on the sale? I could go on and on but the number of special interest credits and rebates in the Tax Code are staggering. And that BTW includes your IRA. Why should I pay for your IRA?

My problem with this entire debate is that the very people, such as the lame brain talking heads on Fox News, who decree that PV and EV tax rebates, which essentially allow me to keep more of my money, are terrible social policy consistently and simultaneously champion every dumb tax credit and deduction that they and/or their listeners benefit from. It's all about who is eating the slop out of trough, isn't it? When you're pigging down the credits and deductions, such as your IRA exclusion, tax loopholes are right and good. But when someone else gets some swill it's all unfair because it's wrong, unfair, and bad public policy. This is simply two-faced BS. I'll be happy to say sayonara to the EV and PV tax credits when all the rest of the BS credits and deductions get stripped from the Tax Code. Until then I'm taking all the credits and deductions I'm entitled to -- cap gains, Keogh plan, EV credits -- and all those complaining about these credits can kiss my @ss. (I benefit far more from cap gains the EV and PV credits combined, but if I had justify which ones made better policy sense, I'd have to say that the EV and PV credits represent much better public policy).

[TedinFortMyers]

The tax payers do benefit by not having to install greater electric capacity in their electric bills as demand increases. That is the ROI for the tax payers. I too will install solar when I move to Arizona from Florida. I have so much tree cover that it would cost alot just to clear the roof for an install in Fort Myers. I was looking for a 10KW system and am a little surprised about the cost. I guess I was thinking more in the $40K range. It is what it is because I too will have a fixed income which will not include room for alot of electric bill.
Take Care, TED Volt #1506

[Jim Fallston Md.]

The reason I did not yet get a Volt is because of what I spent updating my home. Winter 08 & 09 my 5 heating monthly bills were over $2500.00 total. We installed Geothermal. Total cost $21,600.00. Tax credits and local rebates put my out of pocket @ $10,000.00 before any energy savings. Feb. 2010 We installed a 4.6 kw solar system with enphase micro inverters to allow for adding on to the system @ $27,600.00- $8400 fed tax credit- $4450 Md. cash- $1500 property tax credit. In Md. we get SREC [ solar renewable energy credits ]yearly. For the first 5 years it is $1960.00. I paid about $800.00 to the fed for the MD cash. The yearly electric savings are close to $2000.00. My ROI is under 4 years and the SREC's continue with yeary amount reducing by a couple hundred dollars a year for the remainder od the 15 year expected draw. We have only electric and my bill last month was $27.49 with 2 weeks of AC. I could not be happier with the energy upgrades. Now to find the money for a Volt and I will be elated.