$48k for Plug-in Prius?

[SolarExec]

This reporter is saying $48k for the plug-in Prius. Impossible! At that price I do not even know why they would bother. Must be an error...

http://www.ketknbc.com/hitting-the-r...-prius-plug-in

[Rusty]

I could believe it's a typo, and they meant $38K. And I could believe that $38K figure, since I think I've also heard the PiP will only be an option on the Prius V. Last time I added up guesstimates it round up around there.

What I can't believe is the claim the PiP will qualify for the $7,500 tax credit. That figure is based on the capacity of the battery, and the Volt just barely sneaks in to qualify for the full amount with its 16 kWH battery. Oddly enough after 16 kWH the credit doesn't get any bigger, so the Leaf gets the same federal credit the Volt does. Below 16 kWH? The credit gets smaller. One has to wonder which came first, the size of the credit (and GM engineered the Volt to just make it) or the size of the Volt's battery (and GM lobbied congress to just max the credit there).

Be that as it may, the PiP doesn't have anywhere near a 16 kWH battery. Has anyone heard? At a wild guess, I'm guessing 4 kWH. I don't know what than translates to in terms of a credit.

It'll be interesting to see how Toyota positions the PiP against the Leaf, Focus, and Volt (and whatever else comes out of the woodwork next model year).

[Steverino]

As I recall, the plugin Prius is reportedly equipped with a 13 mile battery (but the ICE is also used, or not) that the anti-Volt, USA bashing crowd has been claiming would be a Volt-killer. I saw some early price estimates at $33k-35k.

Reportedly, the tax credit for a 4 kWh pack is $2500 and a 16 kWh pack (Chevy Volt) is $7500 - it's linear at intermediate energy levels.

Car and Driver:
"The Prius PHV doesn’t differ much from the regular Prius from a dynamic standpoint, either. No surprise, really. The Prius PHV is essentially just a Prius whose nickel-metal hydride battery pack has been swapped for a far pricier, far heavier, and far more potent lithium-ion pack. (How potent is unclear, as Toyota won’t tell us how much it improves on the regular car’s 1.3-kWh capacity.) The new batteries can be fully charged in three hours from a simple household 110-volt outlet or an hour and a half from a 220-volt plug. The battery swap allows for more miles on electricity alone and a commensurate boost in real-world fuel economy.

And so the parallel-hybrid powertrain design, the squishy suspension setup, and the puny 15-inch wheels remain, giving the PHV the same lackluster driving characteristics as its non-plug-in sibling. That includes the way-overboosted electric power steering and a brake pedal that has yet to deliver anything close to accuracy. "

[Raymondjram]

I don't understand the author's logic:
"On the road, they are, oh what is the word…oh yes, slow. But frankly, they are no slower than an economy car of comparable size. The Volt has 17-inch wheels, the Prius 15." What does wheel size have to do with speed? BTW, very few modern cars with a 4-cylinder engine can run at 100 MPH, unless it has a tailwind and is running downhill.

But the plug-in Prius is too little and too late. Only Prius and Toyota fans would buy that model. I know that I won't!

Raymond

[Number719]

Reportedly, the tax credit for a 4 kWh pack is $2500 and a 16 kWh pack (Chevy Volt) is $7500 - it's linear at intermediate energy levels.

Yes: $2500 if it has only a 4kWh battery. From irs.gov:

"The credit is equal to the sum of: (1) $2,500, plus (2) for a vehicle which draws propulsion energy from a battery with at least 5 kilowatt hours of capacity, $417, plus an additional $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity in excess of 5 kilowatt hours. Under § 30D(b)(3), that portion of the credit determined by battery capacity cannot exceed $5,000. Therefore, the total amount of the credit allowed for a vehicle is limited to $7,500."

[DonC]

The Volt gets the biggest possible rebate because GM wrote the law with the Volt in mind. OK. GM didn't write the law. Dingell wrote it, but that's more or less like having GM write it.

As for the price, the Prius V gets up to $35K or I could see the PIP at $38K. Like Rusty, I think $48K seems like a stretch.

As for the commentary ... the Volt is not slow. Did he not drive it?

[Rusty]

As for the price, the Prius V gets up to $35K or I could see the PIP at $38K.

Is that with, or without the Performance + package? I could see a comparably equipped Prius V costing nearly as much as a Volt. I think I see a possibly interesting marketing year ahead for some companies...

[Nick D]

$48k was the price of the PiP in Japan after the currency conversion. They say that the PiP will be additional $3k per car, and available at every model level. Prius 1 is only available to fleets, Prius 2 start at about $23500 So $26500 for the lowest model. My thought is that toyota will have this option available in much greater numbers in the pruis 5 in the attempt to get more people to purchase the more expensive model, but i guess time will tell. No matter what happens the PiP will have nothing on the volt.

[jsmay311]

Pretty bad. The author is wrong about the PHEV Prius price, mpg, AND tax credit. At least he got the wheel diameter right!

I found this on the IRS fox 8936: "Draws propulsion using a traction battery with at least 4 kilowatts of capacity." http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8936.pdf

Sheesh. Didn't anyone at the IRS pass high-school physics? (This is a pet peeve of mine. Energy =/ Power!)

BTW, very few modern cars with a 4-cylinder engine can run at 100 MPH, unless it has a tailwind and is running downhill.

Really?? I drive a weak-a$$ '95 Civic sedan, and I've gotten it over 100mph on flat terrain. I'm sure the majority of today's cars can go even faster.

[EricLG]

Toyota does not publish prices until a couple of weeks, perhaps a month of market availability. If the PiP is sold in Japan before the US, a strict currency conversion will not give a good indication of domestic pricing. For reasons I do not fully understand, US pricing is much cheaper than every other place in the world I have read about. I presume marketing, subsidies, and taxes at least play into the pricing, and who knows what else.

So far as I know, the only statement Toyota has made wrt to Prius pricing is that they plan to set the price so that consumers will think twice before deciding not to buy the plug-in. That sounds like an aggressive pricing strategy to me, but time will tell. I think more importantly it says that Toyota will market the the PiP to be a high-volume sales.

Oh, and that PIP will be across the Prius trims, although I do not know if that is on roll-out. I would be delighted if true on roll-out, but I really doubt that is the case.