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Doing a **major** disservice to this vehicle, GM, and EV's in general? <rant>

10K views 38 replies 22 participants last post by  jeffhre 
#1 ·
<rant_on>
It is starting to be a trend by Volt owners. Over worrying and OVER emphasizing their EV mileage and pains they've taken to do it. Plug in at Walmart, turn the fan off, etc. Drive it like a *normal*car* just like it is.

My humble (or not) opinion is that by hypermiling, telling others how we drive with the fan and heat off, etc, etc, we are all doing a **major** disservice to this vehicle, GM, and EV's in general. We are **ruining** (OK contributing to) bad public opinion about EVs and forcing the EREV Volt in the same category (or in the masses minds) as all pure EV (BEV) electric vehicles. When electric *only* cars run out of battery power they don't have a secondary propulsion method (I don't count sneakers). This is fine as those owners simply need to understand that and if the Nissan Leaf is running low on EV when you are getting close to home you probably better get very conservative. In the Volt, do what I did this very night, just continue to drive normally without a care in the world and come home on a partial gallon of gas. Cabin heater on 'comfort' and heated seats on driving whatever speed I want!

This is very very bad in my opinion...very nearsighted.
<rant_off>
 
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#2 ·
People who choose to drive conservatively do so in whatever car they Drive. Im my Scion XB i was able to travel just over 400 miles on 9.7 gallons of gas using simmilar techniques. In my 2010 prius I regularly get 48mpg - but if I try to get better mileage I can get mid to high 50's and even low 60's.

Once you drive a hybrid car - your driving changes - suddenly high MPG becomes exciting - these people drive this way because they want to see how high they can get their MPG - they are challenging themselves - not suffering for the number, its exciting. People who have not driven a hybrid or EV will not understand until they do.
 
#3 ·
Nick, I get that and especially for a ICE only vehicle. That, however, is not my point at all.

I drive 24 miles round trip to work driving with the leaf ball centered at traffic flow speeds so I'm mostly efficent electric but I when I need to go farther (errands, sports, etc), I don't do silly things like suffer (chill) so I can go another mile on electric or ask every store owner if I can charge (120v) when I go in for a short time ... and then worse make all those points publicly (FB, articles, etc) so as to confuse the general public on all the sacrifices one may need to make to own the Volt. This stuff is killing me as we have enough PR problems with out the self infliction.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Scott I understand what your getting at - and probably did not word my post to reflect that. The disconnect is between the Average Citizen who knows very little about anything vs. the enthusiast who knows the car inside and out- The are different communities and they are overlapping to some extent.

The people who are doing these things are trying to get the best MPG they can to brag within their community. The General public is easily confused becasue they dont really care enough to learn about the product. Over time this will fade away, i still get questions about my prius that make me think that our civilization is doomed.

The thing is people need to understand that everything depends on context. For example - there is a hybrid MPG "race" on earth day in Des Moines hosted by toyota. We get a $10 Gas card for entering. My plan - to show spectators that the car is a "Real car". Everyone will creep off the line in EV mode, I plan to show up in a borrowed Nascar Jacket with Prius in PWR Mode and WIN the "Race". I can "Win the race" and still hit 40MPG while the real "winner" will be 20 minutes behind me with 65MPG. I think this will show people that these cars really can be driven however you want - it just depends ultimately on your desire.

I, like you, will be driving my volt in power mode and comfort mode, and will from time to time use a half gallon of gas here or there, but i believe its the Publics responsibility to become educated on what is available to them.

If someone thinks the volt is a compromise they wont buy it - that leaves one more on the lot for someone who did their homework - and they will be still smiling when gas hits $7.50 a gallon.

Side Note - When I first got my Prius, a neighbor who drives a Dodge ram with the V10 engine laughed and said "Good luck getting that thing on the interstate" The funny thing is my 2001 S10 had 98 HP, my 2006 XB had 105 HP and my Prius has 135 HP - he never said anything about the other cars.
 
#5 ·
I hear you Scott. And GM went to great pains to make the Volt as close to a "normal" car experience as possible, including the unnecessarily clunky gear selector.

To me, one of the great things about the Volt is its wide appeal. The Volt can be whatever you want it to be. If you want a sporty looking car with a sporty driving experience, you've got it in the Volt. And if you want to use as little gas as possible, and even as little electricity as possible, you'll love the Volt too, but you'll drive it like a granny.

Personally I like to visit both those worlds. I get a kick from the crazy silent low end torque on occasion. Other times I like to coax it along and stretch the limits of efficiency.

We all have lots of opportunities to educate others with our Volt. I like showing people both how fun it is to drive electric, AND how driving habits can have a dramatic effect on efficiency of ANY car. For example: we would ALL pay less per mile for our electricity and gas if we accelerated more slowly and drove the speed limit instead of 10 over. And we would ALL pollute less per mile. No matter what car you drive.
 
#6 ·
As much as I enjoy my car, and am more than happy to answer questions from any passerby, it is not my job to sell the VOLT to anyone or to leave them with any particular impression. I don't care if Joe Shmoe decides to buy a Volt, Leaf, Prius or any other vehicle, I could care less. I don't try to sway opinion either way, I just state the facts as they pertain to me, my car, and my driving habits. We don't need to over think and overestimate the importance ( or unimportance, like my response ) of our opinions.

BTW Scott, I liked your LEAF reference to " sneaker powered " LOL

Steve in Boca Raton #313
 
#7 ·
OK Scott and honoreitiscom, you turned my "rant" on.
I had a friend who owned a Jaguar XJ12 - I never saw him drive it over 30 mph.
If you pay extra for a fast car, you show it off by driving it fast. If you always drive slow, you wasted money.
If you pay extra for a car that uses little or no gas, you show off that quality.
Of course, you can show off speed in a few seconds while demonstrating fuel efficiency takes a long drive (the mpg figure on the display is "only a number").
When I show #448 to people I put it in "sport" mode and drive agressively. I also point out the instrumentation and let them see the mpg number. When I'm by myself, I try to do everything I can to keep that mpg number high (lifetime is now 217).

Question: What good is a Volt that only seats 4 and costs $40k?
Answer: What good is a Corvette that only seats 2 and costs $50k?

OK. I'm done.
 
#24 ·
I really enjoyed everyones thought out discussion and examples of what they do. Thanks.

I wrote the initial text like at 1 a.m. and I'm not the best communicator anyway so perhaps was not perfectly clear but you guys interpreted it pretty well and got the jist|spirit of what I was trying to say|accomplish.

OK Scott and honoreitiscom, you turned my "rant" on.
If you pay extra for a fast car, you show it off by driving it fast. If you always drive slow, you wasted money.
If you pay extra for a car that uses little or no gas, you show off that quality.
OK. I'm done.
No worries. Not sure you if-then logic is so cut and dry from my perspective.

I think people "pay extra" for the reasons they may want the feature
  • occasionally (my truck pulling my camper in the summer),
  • regularly (my wife's safe/stable Subaru in the Chicago winters), or
  • much of the time (my Volt using electric miles 95% of the time but not working hard to avoid that 5%).

It was just killing me to see FB post and articles "lead" non-Volt owners into the mindset of a BEV. So many folks won't touch a BEV but would a EREV. I've talked to quite a few.

We need this product to succeed for GM and other manufacturers so we have more choices and more money for faster advancements/expansion. Need to break through to the people that are on the edge ... "the maybe-types that can get comfortable plugging it in if I know I won't be stranded."

OVERALL: If you seen my posting for months you know I'm pretty mellow and just trying to be helpful and informative. I wasn't trying to offend folks with my thread but just trying to get the discussion and "self-thinking of my actions and words" thoughts going.
 
#8 ·
I definitely agree with Scott. When I read about people doing things like charging the car, disconnecting it, then running the ICE for 20 minutes, then charging some more -- all to get a higher number on the battery charge mileage indicator -- I have to ask "what is the point?" The beauty of the Volt is that you don't need to obsess over the battery charge. That should be the take-away in all this.
 
#9 ·
Nick D,

I agree. It is fun. I really think that the Volt is making a better driver out of me. After 50+ years of pushing the envelope of the speed limit every chance I got, and getting caught once in awhile, now I am going a little slower and trying my best to stretch the AER. And it's just as much fun, if not more. Who would have thought?
 
#10 ·
Noel - I too was a former speed demon - weaving through traffic and driving fast. I drive pretty controlled and slow now, but the prius has really showed me how much difference your right foot can have. Last Saturday I got a speeding ticket on the Highway (83 in 70MPH Zone - I was excited to go snowboarding). On the trip to the Ski Area I got 39MPG in the Prius. The trip home I drove the speed limit - exactly 70MPH and got 48MPG. The drive style makes the biggest difference.

BTW Everyone - If your passing through Iowa they radar cars from Airplanes now - I found out the expensive way.
 
#11 ·
Scottf200,

Sensible advice. If only most of the Volt owners would just follow it. I don't intend to try to hypermile my Volt when I get it. I plan on treating it just like any other car I have driven in the past except for two things. One is I will plug it in at night when the battery is close to its buffer zone (some days I will drive less than 10 miles and can wait another night to plug in). Secondly, I will not be visiting the gas stations anywhere near as much as I do now.

Thanks for your advice. I hope we all take it to heart. We all want the Volt to be successful. We should be careful about scaring off a shy public. They need to be properly informed about the Volt and the Volt owner is best qualified one person at a time. So, be careful how you describe the Volt.
 
#20 ·
You will end up plugging it in ever night if you care about longevity of the battery.
 
#12 ·
Nick D,

This weekend I'm taking my '58 Corvette out to the vintage races for the first time this season. I hope that all of this feather foot Volt driving isn't going to ruin my track driving style, LOL. On the other hand, even Corvette road racing is all about conserving momentum at the end of the day. So maybe there's actually some positive spillover. How's that for optimism, LOL?

Actually driving race cars has made me a better street driver as well. When you burn off the need for speed at the track, it's a lot less tempting to do it on the street. Although I did provoke the Volt's stability control into deploying the other day. As any good race driver would say, I wish I could turn it off because I think I can do better, hahaha.
 
#13 ·
Speeding

Nick D - It has been a while since I have received a speeding ticket. The thing I do to avoid a ticket, is it use the cruize control and plug in a radar detector--it helps with MPG also. If the radar detector goes off, I check my speed just to make sure I am not speeding. I hate given $200.00 to the police so if I get a speeding ticket, I condsider my fine, my 'mandatory charitable contribution.'
 
#19 ·
Nick D - It has been a while since I have received a speeding ticket. The thing I do to avoid a ticket, is it use the cruize control and plug in a radar detector--it helps with MPG also. If the radar detector goes off, I check my speed just to make sure I am not speeding. I hate given $200.00 to the police so if I get a speeding ticket, I condsider my fine, my 'mandatory charitable contribution.'
Sad thing is that my Radar detector did not detect radar by Airplane... Oh well I learned my lesson and they did their job.
 
#14 · (Edited)
This topic reminds me of what the saleslady said at the recent Tesla Tech Talk.

1. Don't buy the 3.5 hour charge station, you have all night to charge.
2. With up to 300 mile range, don't plug in at Costco, leave those charger stations for the Leaf and Volt.

In other words, she was encouraging the listeners to enjoy the car because it was built to be enjoyed.

Yesterday I plugged into a Charge Point station at South Coast Plaza. It requires a Charge Point card to activate the free charge. The iPhone app gives you all the stats while charging. This is the wave of the future and with a Tesla only charger next to the Charge Point, these are the stations designed to be enjoyed when you want to avoid using fuel.
 
#15 ·
<rant_on>
It is starting to be a trend by Volt owners. Over worrying and OVER emphasizing their EV mileage and pains they've taken to do it. Plug in at Walmart, turn the fan off, etc. Drive it like a *normal*car* just like it is.

My humble (or not) opinion is that...
<rant_off>
Actually, it's the bogus MPG number that is the third rail.

When The Doubters hear, "I'm getting 285/624/10,438/whatever MPG!" they think, "No, you're not. You're getting 37mpg (or something similar) on gas and you're getting EV miles besides that." And, in this, The Doubters are perfectly correct. There's energy going into the system and that the gazillion mpg claim ignores.

Forget the gas and forget the MPG. Just stress how many electric miles you're getting: "So far, I've gotten 2100 EV miles, out of 2345 total on the odometer. I'm 90% (or whatever) electric!"

Your Volts are still getting an insane rebate, so I can't guarantee you a warm reception from everyone, no matter what, but avoiding a bogus MPG claim should help.
 
#16 ·
Based on a 55 mile round trip commute, my wife will be using some gas every day. For "my" days, I'll use no gas. I'm not going to fret about not being all electric for my wife's commute. It will still be sizable decrease in gas consumption compared to the current situation. We'll have "joint custody" :) and both enjoy the ride.
 
#18 ·
Part of the game for me is not only the mpg, but the enjoyment of not having the gas engine running. You don't always hear the ICE when it's running, but sometimes you do. I like to be on electric so I don't have to hear it at all. Once you get used to silent running, anything else seems crude and uncivilized.

This morning I had to go downtown for a 2 hour meeting and I was planning to go early so I could park in a different garage that has a free Level 2 charger (I have the card now). But then I came to my senses. Why walk 9 city blocks both ways in the cold wind with a laptop bag just to top off and not have to drive the final 4 miles on gas. I parked in the building.

I tell people a big part of obsession is like playing PacMan and wanting to get all 4 monsters every time you eat a power pill and get every fruit that pops up even though you don't need any of those to make it to the next level.
 
#22 ·
I have been outspoken that the best way for us to show off the Volt is to zip around. When at stop lights with other cars, etc, show off the performance of this vehicle. I too, occasionally play the mileage game to see how far I can go on a full charge, etc. BUT, I don't want to be seen driving this fantastic vehicle far below it's performance capabilities, dragging along the highway at 55, etc.

Anyway, has anyone else seen the UK Top Gear episode where they ran a Prius around their track at it's limit, followed by a BMW M3 (I believe). The rule was the M3 could not pass the Prius, just keep up to it. While the Prius was driven at 10 tenths, as they say. In the end, the M3 actually used less fuel than the Prius. The moral of the story is mileage was impacted by how one drives their vehicle.

Personally I didn't purchase a Volt because I wanted to see how far I could drive in the most efficient manner. I wanted to experience the new technology, I wanted to stop buying fuel if I don't have to, I wanted to support this new technology developed by an American company. I'd rather give me money to my local utility than oil companies buying from overseas suppliers, etc. Surely, when we get down the road with the Voltec and competing drivetrains from other suppliers, we'll see a lower cost for entry and hopefully less oil consumption overall.

I really just love the look on people's face when I quickly pull away from them at a light or while passing them on a 4 lane, etc.
 
#25 ·
Great thread, scottf200!

When I first got my Volt, I found myself driving very conservatively, just to see how far I could go before the generator turned on. Time is not on the battery's side, so I wanted to see what my new battery was capable of. So far, I usually get 35 miles of EV range with temps in the 50's. The time I took my grandparents for a drive when it was also in the 50's, I had the heater on full and the defroster, and was driving on city streets with plenty of hills I had to drive up. I only got 25 EV miles on that drive, but that was to be expected.

When going on a drive that's long enough to use up my AER, I'll still lock in the cruise at the speed limit and accelerate slowly and use L and the regen instead of the brake pedal.

But around town, I'll gladly switch over to Sport mode and zip around a bit. Like I did tonight. Pulled up along side a black Mitsubishi Diamante that a young guy was driving very aggressively. I noticed he looked over and read the Volt badge on the side of the car, so I switched to Sport mode. Blew him away when the light turned green! :D Granted, I stopped accelerating at 40 (speed limit was 30) and he eventually flew past me.

That's right - you were beaten by a Volt!
 
#27 ·
Scott,

You got your point across very well, I believe. And I agree with your thinking. Trying to drive like the Volt was a BEV and talking like it is will not help the cause. Let people know that the Volt is "more car than electric". I do believe GM got that saying right although at first I thought they were not being very clear in their meaning. But after reading your comments along with the others on the forum, I know believe GM had it right all along. More car than electric now makes sense.
 
#30 ·
I think the messaging needs to vary with the audience. I speak in different terms when talking to Volt enthusiasts on this board, than I do when talking to people who know nothing about BEV or EREV or electric cars in general.

The folks on this forum fall into those who are "in the know." Most are "experts" who are passionate about the car and maximizing its capabilities. I think a little friendly competition around who can get the highest number of miles on a single charge is all in good fun, and appeals to those who are competitive as well as those who see the Volt as a big "gadget" that they want to get the most out of.

Outside of this forum, I agree with others that we need to emphasize the benefits of electric cars in general. We need to educate our friends and family and co-workers on the fact that the Volt is "more car than electric," and depending on the length of their commute and driving habits, they can use a whole less gas with this car than even a Prius!

It took years for the Prius to be accepted by the general public, I hope we can all improve that adoption curve and speed when it comes to the Volt.

Now, it is 77 degrees in Santa Clara today. My Volt is fully charged and I am about to head out on a 110-mile drive. For those on this forum, I am shooting or a new AER record, and hope to beat my previous best of 43.3 miles. :-D
 
#33 ·
http://gm-volt.com/2009/01/05/chevy-volt-battery-temperature-control/



Jan 5th, 2009

The following is a recent exchange I had with Volt vehicle line director Frank Weber concerning battery temperature control in the Chevy Volt.

Does the battery always have some electronics running, even when the car is turned off?
No, there is a real sleep mode.

Did you hear about former CEO Martin Eberhard noting his Tesla Roadster was constantly burning energy when it sat in the garage unused?
Yes, his refrigerator. We don’t have this problem.

What we also will do is we will condition that battery for a certain period. When its plugged in and charging, and its really really cold, then you would probably spend a fraction of your grid energy just to keep your battery conditioned so that you can leave your garage or house in very very low temperatures, driving electrically.
What if you leave your Volt outside in the extreme cold?

You could still do this. The battery is fully insulated. Keeping the battery temperature for a while. To keep it just above freezing it can drive electric. Also the car will be smart. If you don’t use your car at some point you don’t want to spend energy anymore. At that point it will just stop conditioning.

The car will know that? Say if you leave it unused for a week?
No one will want to condition the battery for a week. What’s happening at low temperatures depends on what the state of charge is, we haven’t seen any major sensitivities. This car could sit there for two weeks, but without conditioning it again, it certainly wont start on electric. The engine would start and condition the battery for a few minutes.

So is there a delay when the car decides whether to start on gas or electric?
It would know this within a fraction of a second. The moment you open the door, the calculation starts, what is the battery temperature, what is the outside temperature and how should the car start.

So the gas engine will then heat the coolant?
It will propel the car and it will condition the battery. The moment you are running the engine you have the electric heater running in the battery.

So there is an electric heater in the battery?
Yes, you can chill and heat the battery.

Do you need to keep the battery at room temperature the whole time it is operating?
You don’t have to condition it to that level.

Can you say how low a temperature can the battery go on at?
No. A certain operating window that you have. You don’t have to always keep it at 71 degrees F. Ideally that is the temperature you would like it because that is where you have the maximum power output of the battery and you have the best life expectations.
 
#32 ·
<rant_on>
It is starting to be a trend by Volt owners. Over worrying and OVER emphasizing their EV mileage and pains they've taken to do it. Plug in at Walmart, turn the fan off, etc. Drive it like a *normal*car* just like it is.

My humble (or not) opinion is that by hypermiling, telling others how we drive with the fan and heat off, etc, etc, we are all doing a **major** disservice to this vehicle, GM, and EV's in general. We are **ruining** (OK contributing to) bad public opinion about EVs and forcing the EREV Volt in the same category (or in the masses minds) as all pure EV (BEV) electric vehicles. When electric *only* cars run out of battery power they don't have a secondary propulsion method (I don't count sneakers). This is fine as those owners simply need to understand that and if the Nissan Leaf ...
Much ado about nothing. Enjoy your Volt and drive it the way you want. Brag about what you like, that's the whole point. If some people can't figure out that some cars can do more than one thing well, it's not the end of the world. EREV gives you those options. Driving one will, whether you brag about it, don't believe it, or just ignore it, like that uncle that every family seems to have but doesn't talk about... Volts will help some people to;

Use less gas overall,
Enjoy the latest technology,
Send less troops overseas,
Help the environment,
Lead to cleaner air,
Fight global warming,
Increase US industrial capacity,
Drive incredibly efficiently,
Use no gasoline,
Reduce hospital visits from respiratory disorders,
Begin to lower healthcare costs,
Begin to lower the amount of imported oil,
Focus attention on renewables,
lower payments to the foreign trade imbalance,
put the US in a leading technology position,
Motivate Americans to choose cleaner electricity generation.

But as a Volt driver you don't have to do any of those. You can choose to conclude that none of the above will ever happen. All you have to do to help bring this about, for someone else that may think something on this list is what they want to do, is to drive a Volt. No one needs to harp on and on about any of these. Though, just like "weird uncle Billy" they're there, even if nobody ever wants to say it.

My little rant, much ado about nothing.
 
#35 ·
Wow, great points all. I agree completely and am proud to be a small part of helping all of what you list above. Its time that we as Americans walk the walk. This is the greatest country in the world in my opinion and we need to all get on board and make a difference. The Volt is a great way to start.
 
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