Battery Warranty

[larry4pyro]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, I looked but couldn't find anything. Does anyone know what constitutes a failure that would result in the Volt battery being replaced under warranty?

There appears to be some consternation over a similar issue at the Leaf forum. Apparently Mark Perry, Nissan's Director of Product Planning made the following statement,

“The warranty is not related to battery capacity. The warranty is related to motor output. So if the battery has degraded to a point where the motor can’t get enough power from the battery, then it’s a warrantable event. But if someone abuses the battery – parks it outside in 140 degrees and all that – and they have 60 percent capacity after eight years, that’s on them. They abused it.”

Taken at the extreme, this could mean Nissan will not have to replace the battery as long as it has enough juice to power the the Leaf for even a short distance. I believe Nissan to be an upstanding company so I can't believe they will actually do this, but statements like this don't do anything to build confidence.

More at:

http://nissan-leaf.net/2010/10/26/ni...rranty-update/

[bonaire]

So ambient temperature is their parameters for abuse? If you *drive* the Leaf in hot temperatures - it will warm the battery further.

I would worry then about EVs in Palm Springs, Fresno or Vegas - unless you have an A.C. in your garage and would only drive it at night. Asphalt tempertures on 110* days can reach 140-150*. The battery will be riding somewhat close to those temperatures.

Since I've read that the Leaf doesn't have an active temperature management system but the Volt does, I'd say don't buy a Leaf if you live in the desert or tundra if you want to ensure the warranty is sustained.

Again, the Leaf shows it is not in the same league as the Volt.

[Raymondjram]

Battery life is unpredictable, even with modern lead-acid units in all ICE engines. No lead-acid battery will last ten years and the longest warranty is only five years. Each vehicle owner must learn how to observe and report any unusual readings or performance, and report that to the dealer as soon as possible. Since no active vehicle manufacturer produces lead-acid batteries (I will explain the GM-Delco issue later) , they will only replace a failing battery during the initial vehicle purchase warranty. So after the vehicle warranty expires, the vehicle owner has to pay for each replacement.

When Delco was part of GM, there was a better warranty added, and included a pro-rated clause for out of warranty replacements. My two GM vehicles (1984 and 1995 years) initially had Delco warranties, but since Delco isn't a part of GM anymore, the battery are from a different supplier. So I began buying my battery replacements at Sears (DieHard) and took advantage of the pro-rate credits for many years. Now I use Advanced Auto Parts (formally Western Auto) as my battery source, which still offer the pro-rate warranty. My latest GM vehicle is a 2009 model and its battery is still covered under the vehicle warranty.

This is why GM had to dedicate so much engineering and testing resource for the Volt, because presently GM buys the lithium battery from an external source, and has to offer some type of battery warranty with the Volt, yet plan to locally assemble the cells into the battery pack soon. I hope none of the present Volt owners have any battery problems until the eight-year warranty expires. By 2018 I know I will have my own Volt, and I will experience the new Lithium packs and their problems close up.

Raymond

[misslexi]

Denying warranty claims is easy for Mr. Perry to swagger about at this stage, it's not nearly so easy in practice. Consumer protection laws are pretty strong in this area. If Nissan sells Leaves (ha) into a market like Las Vegas and then claims customers abused their batteries by simply using them as intended, they will have a public relations disaster on their hands to say the least.

[petefoss]

This is why GM had to dedicate so much engineering and testing resource for the Volt, because presently GM buys the lithium battery from an external source, and has to offer some type of battery warranty with the Volt, yet plan to locally assemble the cells into the battery pack soon. I hope none of the present Volt owners have any battery problems until the eight-year warranty expires. By 2018 I know I will have my own Volt, and I will experience the new Lithium packs and their problems close up.

Raymond

Not soon on the assembly of battery packs, it's now. As far as I know, all production Volt packs were assembled in the new Brownstown Twp, MI plant.

Pete Foss GM R&D

[Stilgar99]

I asked this same question months ago on a different thread. The responses for the GM warranty were not very reassuring. There does not seem to be a very clear definition of what / when the battery warranty would be envolked. Of course a full failure would do it, but it is not clear if a severly degraded capacity (such as maybe a max charge range of 12 miles at 70 degrees) would kick in the warranty. Kind of a huge loop-hole if you ask me....

Stilgar

[Rusty]

So far GM seems to be responding to ALL battery faults as an opportunity for an engineering learning experience (which it is, so that's a really good thing). They'll probably continue to do so until they feel they've sufficiently learnt.

IMHO the biggest difference between the Volt and the Leaf isn't the ICE. It's the TMS. For all my friends who've been talking about getting a Leaf I ask "Are you buying or leasing?" If they say "leasing" I say "Great! You should have a wonderful experience." If they say "buying" I start explaining just what the TMS means for the battery.

50% of those friends said leasing, 50% said buying.

They're all leasing now. I bought my Volt.

While I expect my battery to last at least 8 years here in mild temperate San Diego, I'm hoping that sometime after I pay the car off I'll be able to get a form fit and function replacement pack that has 100+ miles range. Sounds like battery technology is following Moore's Law.

[Lest]

Rusty,
That is right, Moore's law will prevail. I already bought my Volt, and I am hoping for just that kind of replacement pack, later on.
Les

[larry4pyro]

The information I posted in the thread starter occured way back in Oct 2010, so I searched the web to see if there were further updates. I found this on the same forum posted Nov 16 2010:

http://nissan-leaf.net/2010/11/16/fo...tery-warranty/

Some very interesting excerps:

"This warranty does not cover damage or failures resulting from or caused by:
* Exposing a vehicle to ambient temperatures above 120F (49C) for over 24 hours.
* Storing a vehicle in temperatures below -13F (-25C) for over seven days.
* Leaving your vehicle for over 14 days where the lithium-ion battery reaches a zero or near zero state of charge."
- - -
"* Charging the lithium-ion battery full on a daily basis despite the lithium-ion battery keeping a high state of charge level (98-100%).
"
"The Lithium-ion battery (EV battery), like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual capacity loss with time and use. Loss of battery capacity due to or resulting from gradual capacity loss is NOT covered under this warranty."

How would Nissan know if the battery has been abused? Are there data collection devices that measure illegal conditions?

The article had a link that had some interesting infor on the Volt's battery warranty:

http://nissan-leaf.net/2010/09/13/vo...tery-warranty/

It appears the Volt dealers have equipment that can test and verify battery capacity and they expect the battery capacity to degrade by 10 to 30% over the life of the battery.

[MrEnergyCzar]

For the Leaf battery warranty to be voided if left unplugged for a few weeks is a disaster waiting to happen. As far as the volt's battery warranty, no one seems to know what ev range would trigger a battery warranty to be enforced. If the dealer tech knows what the battery capacity should be based on age and mileage, those benchmarks should be released.