Germany reducing their Feed-In-Tariffs
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  1. #1
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    Default Germany reducing their Feed-In-Tariffs

    Germany is building in year over year reductions in their feed-in-tariff system:

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    As I've stated countless times, if you set a floor on the price one gets for a product or service, there is NO incentive to significantly cost reduce that product or service. Once you hit a feasible business model, a company will spend all its energy increasing production / services at that price / cost point.

    The US does NOT have FIT's, which forced Nanosolar to develop a thin film PV as cheap or cheaper than coal, yet they sell it for much more over in Germany, due to the price floor. I believe Nanosolar has single handedly driven the German's to examine the wisdom of rapidly expanding an expensive solar panel industry, while the US free market creates companies like Nanosolar.

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    I think Germany's strategy is brilliant. It gave huge incentives to get solar moving. Then as new solar technologies present themselves they can lower the incentives to keep companies interested in massive investment without killing them at the starting gate. Brilliant! Nanosolar is going to Germany and the resulting profits are funding Nanosolar's continued R&D. Thank you German citizens for funding world solar development. I hope your leaders get the proper acknowledgement for their groundbreaking ideas. Brilliant!

    Question: Do you honestly think that companies would not work toward reducing their costs or using their profits for technology research and development because of a government incentive program? If so, it would be foolish. There are still competitors to compete against. The company that did not work on their R&D would also be throwing away the opportunity to become a major player in the new market. To base your future on a government incentive program? Come on. The amount of investment needed to get a solar company off the ground is very high. If Germany made some entrepreneur get off the fence and decide to jump in then... Brilliant.
    Last edited by Texas; 06-06-2008 at 04:29 PM.

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    Texas,

    Take the time to read my post, then open your mouth.

    Feed-In-Tariffs create an artificially high price for energy, which, when a company reaches a cost that achieves profitably, causes them to RAPIDLY EXPAND PRODUCTION AT THAT COST, instead of naval gazing in an R&D lab seeking ways to further reduce costs. This is what happened in Germany, which is why they are rapidly reducing the FIT to prevent further expansion of the more expensive techs.

    Nanosolar, without a FIT, was motivated to create a tech that competes with domestic coal, not some artificial price point 4X times foreign coal, as happened in Germany. Nanosolar WISELY recongnized the cash giveaway in Germany, and rapidly built a plant on the consumer's dole.

    Germany have have had the right intentions, but they ended up looting their consumers of electricity, while building out a silicon solar cell industry that is too costly and inefficient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason M. Hendler View Post
    Texas,

    Take the time to read my post, then open your mouth.

    Oh! You think I was writing to you? lol. How arrogant. I was just commenting on Germany's brilliant strategy that has resulted in getting Nanosolar's first panels as well as a huge Nanosolar factory. I don't make it a habit to comment on your nonsense. Who knows when you are doing your silly Colbert impression or being serious. I take it that when you start insulting then you are serious and frustrated. You follow no logic and never use any statistics to back up your irrefutable arguments. Thus, go about writing whatever you like. If I feel like commenting on something I will. No need to get your permission.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas View Post
    Oh! You think I was writing to you? lol. How arrogant. I was just commenting on Germany's brilliant strategy that has resulted in getting Nanosolar's first panels as well as a huge Nanosolar factory. I don't make it a habit to comment on your nonsense. Who knows when you are doing your silly Colbert impression or being serious. I take it that when you start insulting then you are serious and frustrated. You follow no logic and never use any statistics to back up your irrefutable arguments. Thus, go about writing whatever you like. If I feel like commenting on something I will. No need to get your permission.
    ... so you are congratulating Germany for buying Nanosolar power at several times their cost? Are you congratulating the government, or the consumers who got gouged?

  8. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason M. Hendler View Post
    ... so you are congratulating Germany for buying Nanosolar power at several times their cost? Are you congratulating the government, or the consumers who got gouged?

    Yes, I'm congratulating their investment into their future and how it will benefit the world. I hope us Americans get started soon. We will probably go the war and drill route but hopefully we will be smarter.

    Hey! Oil prices just went up $16 a barrel over the last two days. Now we can economically extract oil from shale. The Germans just shake their heads and put up some more wind turbines and solar farms. I know you will never change your mind. You will see their wisdom in the years to come. Just around the time when you finally understand why the BEV beat the hydrogen car. I'm not going to argue with you because I already placed my bet. I'm looking forward to re-reading this in five years. Are you going to be man enough to come back? I'm sure we will all get a good laugh. Well, I hope we are still laughing.

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    Germany borders former Warsaw pact nations, some of whom cut natural gas supplies to Germany to send a message. It is very much a strategic choice driven by factors pre-dating recent energy cost problems.

    California came up with bad policies on energy, forcing energy providers to build plants just outside CA's border, then run wires across their borders, just to stay feasible. This left CA vulnerable to energy market speculators to wreak havoc on CA businesses and residences, etc. I lived through those times in CA, it was ridiculous, like a 3rd world nation, but that is what happens in a government run / over regulated economy - shortages.

    Germany is more likely proving the case as to why you don't have Feed-In-Tariffs, because you rapidly scale up infeasible technologies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason M. Hendler View Post
    Germany borders former Warsaw pact nations, some of whom cut natural gas supplies to Germany to send a message. It is very much a strategic choice driven by factors pre-dating recent energy cost problems.

    California came up with bad policies on energy, forcing energy providers to build plants just outside CA's border, then run wires across their borders, just to stay feasible. This left CA vulnerable to energy market speculators to wreak havoc on CA businesses and residences, etc. I lived through those times in CA, it was ridiculous, like a 3rd world nation, but that is what happens in a government run / over regulated economy - shortages.

    Germany is more likely proving the case as to why you don't have Feed-In-Tariffs, because you rapidly scale up infeasible technologies.
    That's a convenient memory. Conventional wisdom is poorly executed deregulation caused CA power woes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Koz View Post
    That's a convenient memory. Conventional wisdom is poorly executed deregulation caused CA power woes.
    How deregulated could it be, if environmental law and endless litigation drove energy producers out of state?

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