Volt Diagnostic Tool

[Charles Whalen]

> (most of the RAV-EV people are hard core EV enthusiasts, many
> skeptical of the VOLT and it's EV capabilities)

Boy, do I hear ya on THAT! No kidding! There is much I could say about this that would resonate with folks here, but it’s probably best that I exercise some restraint and refrain from doing so.

Thanks again for all the additional info. Over the next couple weeks, when I get a chance, I will poke around and look into various TIS aftermarket options and see what I can come up with. I may have a couple local possibilities here, but I’ll probably start with trying to set up my own AC Delco Techconnect account and will call their customer support first to see about that and which TIS option includes GDS and the upcoming GDS2.

> I would say a better resource might be your selling dealer,
> or their lead Volt technician.

I’ve been giving that some thought but have decided not to do that, and in fact not to even bring this up with my selling dealer, for various reasons. First, my selling dealer is over 3,000 miles away. I got hooked up with this particular dealer through a high-level connection, as a personal favor. At the dealer’s request, I have agreed to keep the name and location of the dealership and specifics of the deal confidential. Suffice it to say, however, that I have developed an excellent, very positive relationship with my Volt salesman, who is a truly unique and fascinating person in a number of ways (I’m sure there is not another Volt salesman in the country quite like him), and I am very happy with my experience and with the deal, which I believe is a good deal for both of us.

But, outside of and beyond my good personal relationship and positive experience with my own Volt salesman, I’m starting to have some broader concerns about some things I’m seeing and hearing regarding some Chevy dealers and the dealership experience in general, with respect to the Volt. I don’t mean to generalize this too much to suggest that this might be the case at most Chevy dealers (I certainly hope it ISN’T!), but some anecdotal evidence I’m seeing suggests that this is at least a problem at some Chevy dealers.

At the Chevy dealership (3,000 miles away) where I’m buying my Volt, my Volt salesman is himself extremely enthusiastic about the Volt. But based on some things he’s told me directly, himself, as well as some things I’ve heard from some other (high-level) sources, his management doesn’t seem to entirely share his enthusiasm for the Volt and feels he is, or at least was, spending too much time on the Volt, especially given the very low allocation (just slightly above single digit) that they and all Chevy dealers are getting, so his management told him that they want him to spend less time on the Volt and more time concentrating on selling the other model cars that they’ve got on the lot in large numbers that they need to move and sell. So given that, I am just very reluctant to burden my Volt salesman with a bunch of requests relating to all of this MDI/TIS/GDS/GDS2 stuff. He has already done me a big, big favor in my Volt deal with him and his dealership and the priority he is giving me, in an area where there is a lot of local demand (and long waiting list) for the Volt. This was done as a favor based on a high-level connection, as I mentioned. One thing that made the deal attractive for him and his dealership was, first, that it’s a “clean” deal (all cash, no financing, and no trade-in), and second, that I’m a seasoned, experienced, knowledgeable, self-sufficient EV veteran who doesn’t need any hand-holding and knows the drill well of arranging cross-country transport of EVs; so, in other words, I’m low-maintenance and am not a needy customer. So I really don’t want to change all that by now burdening my Volt salesman with all of this TIS stuff and all of a sudden becoming a needy customer, especially when he’s been getting pressure from his management to lay off all the Volt stuff, which they’re apparently not all that excited about, and concentrate on selling gas cars.

More broadly, along these same lines, I’m hearing reports around the country about Chevy dealers generally not being very enthusiastic about the Volt, think it's overpriced, don't see a market for it and don't think it's going to sell, and in fact a number of them have basically decided to use the Volt in a classic “bait-and-switch” strategy to lure customers in to their dealership but then to talk them out of the Volt and try to sell them a gas car. In fact, this has already happened to me right here with my local Chevy dealer (just a couple miles away), which called me on the phone a couple weeks ago, completely unsolicited and unexpected by me, taking me by surprise, to follow up on my contact which they got from GM due to my having signed up on GM’s website some time ago to express my interest in buying a Volt. Well, to my surprise, the Chevy salesman spent an entire 15 minutes talking down the Volt and telling me why I really wouldn’t want that car and how much better some of their new gas cars are. He was actually highly critical of GM itself and said that in the 30 years he’s been with GM, they’ve had great engineering and have come out with some stellar automotive engineering marvels but that senior management has never supported their best engineered vehicles and has just let them languish and whither on the vine, always abandoning them after a couple years and then leaving their customers stranded with orphaned vehicles and technology. He said that he expects the same thing from GM with regard to the Volt, same ol’ same ol’, and that they’re not going to fully support this car and will end up abandoning it after a couple years. He said he’s seen this over and over, time and time again. So he said I’d be much better off with a Chevy Cruze, and he mentioned another model as well, which I forget. Well, I sat and patiently listened to all of this, as he talked down the Volt, was highly critical of GM, and played this classic “bait-and-switch” game on me, and when he got done with his spiel, I calmly informed him that I’ve got two 2002 Toyota RAV4-EV all-electric cars, manufactured by Toyota as production electric cars, which my wife and I have been using as our daily drivers for the last 5 and a half years, and so I’m not going to be buying any car that doesn’t have a plug on it. It was then that he realized that I’m a hard-core EV fanatic and thus that the game is up and that old bait-and-switch thing ain’t gonna fly and work on me.

Well, I’ve been hearing similar stories of other Chevy dealers around the country playing this classic “bait-and-switch” game with the Volt. I guess it shouldn’t come as too much of a surprise to me, because as a seasoned EV veteran, I’ve heard all of this before and am well aware that this “bait-and-switch” game was par-for-the-course in the last go-round with the first-generation EVs a decade ago (including, by the way, the RAV4-EV -- Toyota dealers in California were notorious for the cruel, cynical bait-and-switch games they played on customers; it was like pulling teeth to try to get them to actually agree to sell you a RAV4-EV, even when they had them sitting right there on the lot). I guess, however, that I just thought things would be different this time, so I guess I’m a little surprised that nothing seems to have changed in 10 years.

I’m very excited and enthusiastic about the purchase of my Volt and can’t wait to get it. As a longtime public advocate for EVs, I very much want to see GM succeed with the Volt. But some of the things I’m seeing with the dealership process and experience -- (not from my own deal, but just in broader, general terms) -- are giving me some concerns and making me wonder. I just wish all Chevy dealers were as committed to and enthusiastic about the Volt as Nissan dealers seem to be about the Leaf, by all accounts, from all I’ve been hearing.

[WopOnTour]

Well information is coming out that GDS2 will be available for download/install on TIS2WEB later this month.
But as far as I can ascertain, the GDS downloads are not yet available to aftermarket TIS account holders.
That WILL have to change eventually (sometime in 2011?) in order to remain in compliance with aftermarket info system access provisions of OBDII legislation. I believe there is a ~2 year buffer, so the independent shops are always 2-3 years behind the OEMs. (not considered such a big deal as new car warranties are generally longer than that)

Oh and one more point.
You may even want to consider getting TWO MDIs because in case you didn't know the Volt actually has TWO data link connectors. One on each side of the car. This was deemed necessary to maintain network bandwidth during system diagnosis.
So certain data can be gathered by the LH DLC and other data via the RH DLC.
That's another Volt first AFAIK.
WopOnTour

[ChrisC]

Putting a few keywords in here so that people can find this thread:

ScanGauge
ScanGage
OBD
OBDII

[honoreitiscom]

I’ve been hearing similar stories of other Chevy dealers around the country playing this classic “bait-and-switch” game with the Volt.

I called a ton of dealerships on the east coast looking for one with an available allocation. I only ran into this bait-and-switch once, but it was exactly as you described. Completely bashed the Volt and told me why no on would ever want it. Amazing.

[Xzlon]

I called 8 dealerships before I found a small dealership 85 miles away that was willing to accept my order. He said they had 4 allocated and 2 more allocations promised. The two largest dealers I called said they were not accepting any orders until they had the cars in-house. That to me spells "get the car in the showroom and see how much over the MSRP we can sell it for". I left my name at all the dealers. So far only one besides the one with my order has contacted me by email or phone, and that was just a generic courtesy contact.

[WopOnTour]

>Well, I’ve been hearing similar stories of other Chevy dealers around the country playing this classic “bait-and-switch” game with the Volt

I called a ton of dealerships on the east coast looking for one with an available allocation. I only ran into this bait-and-switch once, but it was exactly as you described. Completely bashed the Volt and told me why no on would ever want it. Amazing.

Don't make too much of this guys. I think you can easily expect a few dealers not to be 100% "on-board" regarding the Volt. It's nothing against Volt itself (or EVs in general) but more due to it's net impact at each dealer is currently quite variable.It's a business after all, and the Volt is costing them a lot for their involvement (tools, training, chargers, local marketing etc) when their allotment might be as low as just 1 car for the 2011 model year.

Thus these dealers must be willing to take the hit at a time where they've already absorbed a LOT of body shots. Heck some of them might have even been "canned" by GM once already and then since reinstatment are just looking for GM to deliver the goods with a focus on profitability. Recieving one or two 2011 Volts despite all it's great potential and technical innovation just doesnt cut it, and almost forces the dealer to be made to look bad by having to add a $2000-$10,000 dealer premium on their 2011 Volt's JUST to break even.
So if it appears that some of them might appear to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder regarding the Volt, it's not really a slight on the car itself, more of a no-win business scenario. Hopefully things will be a whole lot better for the 2012 model year, especially if some of the discussion to increase Volt production from the currently planned 45,000 units bears fruit.

WopOnTour

[Rooster]

Yes, you must be fair to your dealer "family" GM....you must increase production! LOL, love it, isn't this nice a problem to have for a change? Sure beats the opposite, whining cause they can't turn their inventory.

I want Volt, but I'm also impressed with the LaCrosse. Now the news that they're adding the BAS system to it in 2012...now I'm really conflicted.

[maynard]

I called a ton of dealerships on the east coast looking for one with an available allocation. I only ran into this bait-and-switch once, but it was exactly as you described. Completely bashed the Volt and told me why no on would ever want it. Amazing.

How can we blame a dealership for, God forbid, trying to earn enough money to keep his dealership open. C'mon you green liberals, let's face it, the Volt is a great car, but a dealership can't possibly make any money selling his meager allocation. GM is losing money on every Volt, so they are'nt encouraged to ramp up production. GM is also losing money on the chargers. The USA taxpayers are losing money on every Volt we buy, and on all charger installations, and the local utility has to cut their rates and provide extra meters to power our chargers. The economics of this all sucks. I hope the Volt survives and I think it will, but we all must realize that we are costing lots of folks lots of money.

[JohnK]

I agree completely. We are going to be spoiled by the Volt. The EV1 users seemed to have no clue to how subsidized they were by GM. "Why can't we just renew the lease?" Hopefully the Volt will make a small profit on each one, but ramping production up to 200,000 a year will still have additional costs. It will be yet one more hurdle for the Volt to overcome.

[Mark Z]

Searching "tis GM" brought me to this web site: http://tis2web.service.gm.com/tis2web

Entering the Volt VIN allows the user to look up vehicle calibrations at no charge. Carefully using the GM provided next and back buttons and selecting from the drop down list choices displays screens of information. Part Number, Calibration Verification Number (CVN), and Description are listed.

Were all the calibrations and/or updates shown done on the assembly line?