Toyota's lithium mine in Argentina

[srschrier]

Toyota buys a 25% stake in Argentine lithium mine.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE60J09S20100120

[George S. Bower]

What? All of a sudden Toyota believes in Lithium batteries? How can this be?

[Mohsen]

What? All of a sudden Toyota believes in Lithium batteries? How can this be?

Toyota is acting as a front for "US imperialism". Isn't that obvious - there cannot be any other explanation. All politics and trade can be easily reduced to US imperialism. Didn't you hear that the US Marines were sent to Haiti recently in order to force Haitians to pay top dollar for US luxury goods that the multinationals cannot sell elsewhere. That is what Hugo Chavez said. Just ask your neighborhood (comatose) postcolonial Leftie.

[dagwood55]

What? All of a sudden Toyota believes in Lithium batteries? How can this be?

If you read what Toyota has actually said, not what others have said Toyota said (or thinks), you will find that Toyota has never said they are not interested in lithium-ion batteries, they have said, "they not ready yet."

Toyota is positioning themselves for the day when the batteries are ready. Securing their supply will help ensure that their product offerings are profitable.

Bear in mind that Toyota is also involved in JVs with Panasonic, and possibly others, who are aggressively pursuing Li-ion (and other) battery technology.

[George S. Bower]

If you read what Toyota has actually said, not what others have said Toyota said (or thinks), you will find that Toyota has never said they are not interested in lithium-ion batteries, they have said, "they not ready yet."

Toyota is positioning themselves for the day when the batteries are ready. Securing their supply will help ensure that their product offerings are profitable.

Bear in mind that Toyota is also involved in JVs with Panasonic, and possibly others, who are aggressively pursuing Li-ion (and other) battery technology.

Yes I know. I just question the not ready part. Case in point Tesla.

[dagwood55]

Yes I know. I just question the not ready part. Case in point Tesla.

Holds only two people and $120K for, what? 150 miles or so?

It's "ready" for a boutique auto. There's very few people who can afford that. Toyota intends to build another Prius - which is to say, an advanced tech car, reasonably affordable, that they can sell in quantities of about 5 to 10K/month.

[prowler]

It's "ready" for a boutique auto.

Do you consider the Volt (using lithium batteries) to be boutique as well?

[dagwood55]

Do you consider the Volt (using lithium batteries) to be boutique as well?

The Prius is a little more expensive (10-15%, perhaps less) than a comparable car with similar appointments and interior room.

The Volt is twice as expensive as a comparable car with similar appointments and interior room (in fact, 4 seats vs 5).

So, not "boutique" to the same degree but not anywhere as near mainstream.

It's a funny thing... Some weeks ago, there was a GM-Volt article about the death of the GM 53mpg hybrid Prius-fighter program. The consensus of opinion was that killing the program made sense because GM could not compete with the Prius.

However, the consensus of opinion on the site is also that GM can "leapfrog" Toyota with the Volt.

Can't compete... but can leap ahead? Am I alone in thinking there's a disconnect, here?

[prowler]

The Prius is a little more expensive (10-15%, perhaps less) than a comparable car with similar appointments and interior room.

The Volt is twice as expensive as a comparable car with similar appointments and interior room (in fact, 4 seats vs 5).

So, not "boutique" to the same degree but not anywhere as near mainstream.

My Volt will be replacing a Ford Escape, a small SUV that stickered for $32,500 (the same price as a Volt after rebate based on the latest GUESSES.)

Also, my use of my Volt will be pretty close to 100% electric (like 78% of the population that drive less than 40 miles per day). THE PRIUS IS A GASOLINE-FUELED CAR. I, like many others, are willing to pay a premium to NOT BURN OIL - it's a subjective feature, the same as someone who is willing to pay an extra $30,000 for a "luxury" car over basic transportation.

You're comparing apples to oranges when you compare a gas-burner to a 40-mile EV with an insurance policy. As I've posted before, when you buy an EV where you match it's range with your daily requirements, it gives a pretty strong argument - even if you want to argue the economics.

[dagwood55]

My Volt will be replacing a Ford Escape, a small SUV that stickered for $32,500 (the same price as a Volt after rebate based on the latest GUESSES.)

Also, my use of my Volt will be pretty close to 100% electric (like 78% of the population that drive less than 40 miles per day). THE PRIUS IS A GASOLINE-FUELED CAR. I, like many others, are willing to pay a premium to NOT BURN OIL - it's a subjective feature, the same as someone who is willing to pay an extra $30,000 for a "luxury" car over basic transportation.

You're comparing apples to oranges when you compare a gas-burner to a 40-mile EV with an insurance policy. As I've posted before, when you buy an EV where you match it's range with your daily requirements, it gives a pretty strong argument - even if you want to argue the economics.

You asked my opinion and I gave it to you, supported by facts.

People who buy the Prius, and have for the last 10 years, are also usually motivated by something other than the fuel economy and cost savings (and there are cost savings). It is only marginally more expensive than a comparable car (a Chevy Malibu has similar interior room and it's almost as expensive). Yet, when fuel prices decline, so do Prius sales - or Toyota encourages sales with rebates.

So, for a very marginal premium, not too many people are willing to buy a car that offers 50mpg and has a low carbon footprint, burns far less imported oil (as in half).

But you think for an additional $10K, people are going to flock to the Volt? The same people who aren't willing to pony up a few additional pence to cut their fuel use in half?

Have you ever studied economics? It sure doesn't seem like it. If you did study economics, you should demand your money back.