Toyota President insists electric cars not practical because of short battery life

[HyperMiler]

http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/23/auto...ident.fortune/

Several of your competitors have been speeding development of electric cars. Does Toyota need to do more?

Electric cars' battery life is limited, and that has not been solved. We would like to utilize our hybrid technology because we have accumulated quite a bit of knowledge about battery usage for hybrid cars. Depending on how electric cars are used or how they are found to be valuable, for the time being Toyota would like to focus on hybrid technology.

Toyota president insists that electric cars(and presumably PHEVs) are not practical because Japanese battery suppliers have not been able to achieve the Li-Ion battery life that's comparable to NiMH, so Toyota would stick with NiMH non-plugins.

Well, the tone of talks are very different at companies(namely GM and Hyundai) that have access to Li-Polymer cells that is as durable as NiMH...

[misslexi]

Just so I'm clear: are we talking the total life of the battery, that is until it's no longer of use, or the life of a discharge cycle?

It sounds like the first one, but if that's the case it makes no sense to put one in a hybrid or any other vehicle.

[HyperMiler]

Just so I'm clear: are we talking the total life of the battery

Total life of the battery. Toyota is unable to source Li-Ion battery cells from Japanese suppliers that are as long lasting as NiMH cells, so Toyota president is saying electric cars are unpractical.

You recall Honda CEO saying the same thing last year.

It sounds like the first one, but if that's the case it makes no sense to put one in a hybrid or any other vehicle.

This is why Toyota will stick with non-plugin hybrids powered by proven NiMH batteries, because they cannot currently source Japanese Li-Ion cells as durable as NiMH.

[misslexi]

This is why Toyota will stick with non-plugin hybrids powered by proven NiMH batteries, because they cannot currently source Japanese Li-Ion cells as durable as NiMH.

Implicitly then, NiMH is durable enough but is unsuitable for electric vehicles because of cost, size, weight, energy density, power density, odor (just kidding), all of the above, none of the above?

[HyperMiler]

Implicitly then, NiMH is durable enough but is unsuitable for electric vehicles because of cost, size, weight, energy density, power density, odor (just kidding), all of the above, none of the above?

Well, a 16 kwh NiMH battery pack would be too expensive and heavy for an electric vehicle or PHEV.

[Texas]

Note to any new readers: HyperMiler hates the Japanese and makes up these BS threads in an effort to support his hated. If you know that up-front you can understand his posts.

Now HyperMiler, what were you spewing?

[omnimoeish]

Implicitly then, NiMH is durable enough but is unsuitable for electric vehicles because of cost, size, weight, energy density, power density, odor (just kidding), all of the above, none of the above?

There is some fairly widely believed, yet unconfirmed rumors that Chevron only allows licensing of NiMH (the patent sold to them by GM) up to 2 kWh or something and they cannon be plugged in. This issue was apparently taken to court about 6 or 7 years ago or so, but Toyota and Chevron settled out of court and Toyota is not allowed to discuss the specifics of the settlement.

As I said, it's unconfirmed and we may never know even though the patent expires in 2015, maybe by then, Li Ion will be more advanced to the point where it works as well or better than NiMH. It sounds to me like Toyota is going to wait a while before putting their reputation on the line for lithium ion batteries that historically only last a couple of years (ever owned a laptop?).

[misslexi]

I'd found this wiki link some time ago and was surprised to learn that Chervron appears to be holding the technology hostage. If this is true, it's the sort of thing that can only rectified with extreme shame. Then again shamelessness, especially as it applies to corporations, seems to be the rule and not the exception. I'm sure they have stout legal legs to stand on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_...NiMH_batteries

[HyperMiler]

Note to any new readers: HyperMiler hates the Japanese and makes up these BS threads in an effort to support his hated.

Well, that's for others to decide. At least I have given you the exact quote of Toyota president's comment on battery life issue, you decide what and why he said.

[HyperMiler]

It sounds to me like Toyota is going to wait a while before putting their reputation on the line for lithium ion batteries that historically only last a couple of years

Toyota would go gong ho on PHEV and electric cars if suitable li-ion batteries were available from Japanese suppliers, but we know there aren't any at the moment.

Prius started as an environmental marketing halo car without regards for profit, and I can't see Toyota letting that environmental champion title go to GM unless there is some major technical hurdle to that. And we know what that technical hurdle is, the lack of long-life Li-Ion batteries from Japanese suppliers.