Tesla S can charge in only 5 minutes!

[Texas]

What is this I found on the Tesla website?!


"With the 45 minute QuickCharge or a 5 minute battery swap, you can drive from LA to San Francisco, Washington to New York or take even longer road trips in about the same time as in a conventional car. "


What the?! Is this BP compatable? What are they planning? I want to know.

[Altazi]

Technically, a battery swap-out isn't a "recharge". False advertising!

It will be interesting to see how they implement the swap.

[Texas]

That's the interesting part! It is designed to do both. There is another quote from Elon Musk that confirms that the battery pack is designed to be swapped out. Yeah, a swap-out is not a recharge but the result is the same.

It can also be quick-charged using a 440 V sources in 45 minutes.

Thus, it's like the best of both worlds and I didn't even see that coming. lol. I expected either or but both makes even more sense. Swap out to put in new technology or repair what you have - you won't even have to wait. Just go to Tesla, swap out for a new pack and be on your way. Tesla technicians would then work on the old pack.

So, you can quick charge when there are the high voltage charges available, use a standard plug if that's all there is or on the move across the country you can use the swap-out stations when they are available for the fastest turn-around time.

I'm not sure how the business model will work but it is interesting to think about. There will probably also be a trailer service that will hold a generator.

The big question is who the heck owns the pack and who is responsible for it. Since it should be, by far, the weakest part of the car it might be best to let Tesla own it. This is very similar to the BP model. It's looking more appealing every day. I'm sure they will be able to know exactly how and when it was charged so they can charge the customer according - some might baby the pack while others will abuse it.

Anyway, an interesting development.

[Koz]

I'll believe all of the hyped specs about the Model S when they are real but it sure sounds good on paper and the design is awesome. The following is from my comments on the unveiling thread:


The car not only would be the first highway capable, mass produced EV sedan but also creates a whole new segment of functionality aside from the EV part (aerodynamic midsize hatchback sedan with seating for 5+2, forward trunk, and storage similar to small SUV). On paper (meaning if the car is produced with specs and features as announced) this seems likely to me to be a real winner.
-Luxury car design at low end of like model pricing
-Seating for 5 plus 2 kids
-Large hatchback storage + forward trunk storage
-3 sizes of battery options (160, 230, 300 miles of inititial range)
-0-60 5.6sec
-starting at $57,400 ($49,900 after tax credit)
-Clear roof optional
-5 minute batttery swap capable
-Replacement battery projected to start at $5,000
-120V, 240V, and 480V built in charger with best case 45 minute quick charge capability
-All wheel drive option

Some of these claims seem pretty optimistic but not as bad as some here espouse when looked at in perspective. For example, $5,000 battery replacement estimate claim would certainly be for the smallest battery size and based on purchase somewhere around 2017 (2012 delivery + 5 year minimum life). I believe they will raise the price once VC or geovernment loans are obtained and they have some threshold of deposited orders (say 3,000).

http://www.teslamotors.com/display_d...del_S_FAQ.html
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/index.php

I have a two-car household with outlet access are rare need of 100+ miles range. One BEV and one EREV would be fine for me. Better yet would be 2 BEV’s and one generator trailer that can double as our whole house emergency generator.

Long range quick charge BEV vs Battery Swap vs Generator Trailer

http://www.evalbum.com/2312

Tesla Currently says 2 out of 3 ain’t bad, which it ain’t since it’s better than anybody else is saying. I says 3 out of 3 is better. HEY TESLA! How about offering a generator trailer-ready option?

[omnimoeish]

Wow, I'm just impressed at the seating capacity. 5+2? How may sedans do that?

As I've said before, to me, apart from emergency roadside assistance for when you run out of juice in Timbuktu, the casual battery swap thing just does not seem feasible, practical, convenient, or cost effective, but who am I to second guess Elon Musk?

Hey Texas, which auto maker is PBP planning on partnering with for their battery swap out stuff? Right now Tesla is the only one actually making EVs (well 250 of them anyway over the last 3 years, I know a guy who has done more EV conversions using lead acid batteries than that), and real production is years away and still contingent on VCs and federal loans coming through.

Ford has just recently talked about making a Focus EV but it didn't sound like think they are working much with PBP. Nissan and Toyota have EVs in the works supposedly but they are keeping that pretty under wraps, and Japanese have a minimalist tendency. Honda is still skeptical of the reliability of even plug in hybrids. Chrysler is a walking zombie that probably won't exist 3 years from now, and it looks like GM is going the EREV route for the foreseeable future.

[Texas]

Wow, I'm just impressed at the seating capacity. 5+2? How may sedans do that?

As I've said before, to me, apart from emergency roadside assistance for when you run out of juice in Timbuktu, the casual battery swap thing just does not seem feasible, practical, convenient, or cost effective, but who am I to second guess Elon Musk?

Hey Texas, which auto maker is PBP planning on partnering with for their battery swap out stuff? Right now Tesla is the only one actually making EVs (well 250 of them anyway over the last 3 years, I know a guy who has done more EV conversions using lead acid batteries than that), and real production is years away and still contingent on VCs and federal loans coming through.

Ford has just recently talked about making a Focus EV but it didn't sound like think they are working much with PBP. Nissan and Toyota have EVs in the works supposedly but they are keeping that pretty under wraps, and Japanese have a minimalist tendency. Honda is still skeptical of the reliability of even plug in hybrids. Chrysler is a walking zombie that probably won't exist 3 years from now, and it looks like GM is going the EREV route for the foreseeable future.

Renault-Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn is a visionary that climbed aboard before it was cool or obvious. They expect to be up and running the Battery Place (formally known as Project Better Place) network in Israel by 2011. Just remember how long we have to wait for the Volt.

The plan is for automakers to provide the BP compatible models while BP takes care of the infrastructure and the battery. Ghosn already stated that Renault-Nissan will provide as many EVs as they want.

At the very least they should be able to keep up with the initial orders until the other Automakers decide things are safe enough to get their own models out. If PB is a hit they will be scrambling. If not, no biggie.

Remember that the EV (without a battery) is technically not very complicated, as your buddy can attest.

[pdt]

45 minute "quick charge" is from a ~35kW power source. Sure the battery can take that, but typical power available in a whole house is between 20 and 50 kW.

Replacement battery costs: Even if you want to be very optimistic about battery prices and go with $250/kWh (~Pb-acid price), even the 160 mile range version is going to be $9000 to replace.

I'm assuming the swap-out battery will be a leased battery, I don't see how it works otherwise.

We'll see if the 5+2 seating survives the fantasy phase.

[Texas]

45 minute "quick charge" is from a ~35kW power source. Sure the battery can take that, but typical power available in a whole house is between 20 and 50 kW.

Replacement battery costs: Even if you want to be very optimistic about battery prices and go with $250/kWh (~Pb-acid price), even the 160 mile range version is going to be $9000 to replace.

I'm assuming the swap-out battery will be a leased battery, I don't see how it works otherwise.

We'll see if the 5+2 seating survives the fantasy phase.

1) The quick-charge is from a 440 volt service. Most houses don't have that. Does yours? Does anyone need quick-charge at home? What's the rush? Your 220 volt dryer circuit should be fast enough for anyone to eat, shower and be ready for a night out on the town.

2) Most people that are going to be buying the next few years of Tesla's production are most likely to be wealthy. $9000 is pocket change for these lucky and elite.

3) What do people think the price of gas will be over the next 5 years? Remember that when you buy the Tesla you are also buying the "fuel". It's like buying a tanker full of gas because the price to charge up is about $5 bucks.

Now that's the real reality.

[DaV8or]

Hey Texas, which auto maker is PBP planning on partnering with for their battery swap out stuff?

PBP has been working with Nissan/Renault and more recently, Fuji Heavy Industries, makers of Subaru. To what extent they are actually moving forward or producing anything tangible, I don't know.

[Koz]

Omnimoiesh,

We had a long discussion about battery swap vs fast charge a long time ago on this forum. I have seen a lot of negative opinion and misunderstanding about battery swapping but not much real logic or fact. I just don't see and haven't heard a good technical argument against it. The real value of battery swapping IMO is that if structured right, it allows adoption of EV's at the least cost. You can buy/lease what you need most of the time and swapped that out or add to it for the rare extended driving occasions. Having battery modules with spec'd dimensions, weight range, and voltage is simple. Having embedded bios, usage history, and cell management is also doable. Regulating the cars suspension for wieght differences for differing module configurations is achievable. Designing the modules for fast swapping has already been done. The only real issue, and it is a biggie, is who is going to invest in the infrastructure to make it practical especially when it will take so long for adoption of the EV's needed to support the business model. This is why it makes so much more sense for smaller geographic areas with smaller car fleets and expensive gas. This is also what makes Tesla's intention to make their vehicles swapable but still practical for many even without swapping being available so good. The vehicles can enter the fleet and if swapping comes on line Model S drivers can take advantage of it. Sounds great in theory but my guess is that it will run into some practical cost issues as a standard feature but perhaps it could be designed as an option that owners can upgrade to later on.