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Is the Volt a throwaway car? Owning past 5yr/100k miles...

33K views 67 replies 39 participants last post by  madmike 
#1 ·
I came across this blog with an interesting point of view, if a car is expensive and hard to repair, it's trash after the warranty expires. The author claims the Tesla Model S falls in this category.

It's no secret the Volt is designed to require the dealer more than it should, so what do you think will happen now that we're reaching this point of Volts' warranties expiring in massive quantities?

https://syonyk.blogspot.se/2016/03/is-tesla-building-throwaway-cars.html
 
#3 ·
Our Volts will probably be throw away at some point, a long way down the road. We plan to drive them a long time, probably never to the mileage Eric has with Sparky, but still a long way. Some of our warranties have already expired, but since nothing has failed so far I'm quite comfortable with them.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Nearly all cars are consumable items, possibly excepting a few rare "garage queens" that might increase in value over time.
The idea that a Tesla or Volt would be anything but something to use and use up puzzles me.
 
#6 ·
My Volt is over five years old. Still working just fine. I don't see the Volt being that expensive to repair. It's a Chevy, which means you are not in MB, BMW, or Tesla territory. If you're concerned about expensive repairs, get an extended service plan. They are reasonably priced. Less than the cost of one large repair for a seven year extension.

That said, while cars are lasting longer, they don't last forever. At some point all cars are disposable.
 
#48 · (Edited)
The VOLT has some VERY expensive parts under her body panels. The dealer told me there is an electronic part that combines all the info and processes it, this part seldom goes bad, but it has on some cars. THIS PART COSTS 2/3's WHAT THE VOLT COST NEW.
With ANY car, after the warrentee, the owner takes on the cost for repair and from what I have seen, when the cost gets up to a certain level, and all owners have that cost ceiling, the car is either parted out or junked.

This is a big problem with GM's premier queen, the CADILLAC. They stuffed it with all the electronics it can hold, the most expensive suspension they could dream up, computers galore, to the point that only the warrentee can keep her going. After the warrentee, the car usually falls onto collectors and those that think they can handle the costs of repair on their own. Even these daring individuals find in the end that there is definately a cost ceiling and a point to give it up. The day of keeping a car forever is not sensible in todays one sided engineering and production.

In the case of BOTH the VOLT and Cadillac, and I have NO DOUBT that the other GM fleet cars are the same, when in an accident and sustain drive train damage, the insurance companies tend to total the car as the expense to make humpty dumpty whole again is just too high.

LEST WE FORGET..... there is the parts supply factor as well. In the case of the Cadillac Eldorado, the forums routinely talk of not being able to find parts, GM does not make or stock them. Repairs are now at the grace of finding a Mens Mall (junk Yard) that has a car that they can part out. Cadillac is not the only model that has befallen this curse. Todays cars only have the luxury of parts from the manufactuer or from storage for about 10 years, after that the wholesalers get a shot at storing but in time they are thrown out to make space for newer car parts.

I would say that todays cars, no matter what make or model, are definately a throwaway car.
 
#7 ·
Not only are most cars disposable (except for collectors cars) they depreciate like crazy. So financially, you are probably better off driving a purchased volt for 10+ years rather than trading 2 or 3 cars in during that same timeframe. I've driven several cars to 200k miles, no problem. Yes, the powertrain warranty expires at 100k miles, and you typically need suspension work at some point, but most expenses of maintaining a car are far less than buying or leasing a new one.
 
#8 ·
The assumed predicate is that the Volt has a failure rate typical of an ICE vehicle. It does not. Even if an expensive-to-repair failure does occur post-warranty, the owner could apply some of the past and future operating and maintenance savings to getting it fixed.

KNS
 
#9 · (Edited)
Guys, you're missing the point. I've had my Volt for less than a month and this car has awaken my enthusiasm for cars. Don't get me wrong, I really like my Volt and probably in my hands it will live a long time. I have 3 mercedes that I keep alive 1985 200, 1989 560SEL, 1993 500SEL, so I can relate to this article. For example, my 560SEL cost me $6600, but I invested in it about $9k. Is it worth $15 now? Maybe not, but in order for me to enjoy this car I had to do it. It doesn't make financial sense to most people, it does to me because I didn't buy the car as a business, I bought to keep. I put the money in it to enjoy it, not to resell it. The difference is, I can get parts and plenty of mechanics that can work on them. A lot I do it myself.

The point is....
If a car is hard and expensive to repair, the repair costs will be too much compared to the residual value of the car. So people decide NOT to repair and sell cheap. Some of these cars are then purchased my DIYs that keep them alive. But the Volt is not a DIY car, it's not even a car that can be fixed at any shop, well it can only be fixed at certain Chevy dealers !

My opinion.....

My enthusiasm for the Volt has me reading about it everyday (it's my hobby now). And I do think the point made in this article applies here. Just read the recent threads: all these problems need a specialized Volt dealer to fix. Even replacing the coolant is not a DIY job, but it isn't a regular LUBE job either (see: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?255754-Coolant-Change-DIY). For those that don't know, I imported mine to Honduras, where there's a GM dealer but NO support for the Volt. I still bought the car and I'm aware of the challenges I'll face.

Just read the threads on the infamous HV Battery coolant level sensor! Today the concern is loosing time at the dealer, tomorrow you'll have to pay for all this. Think about it.

So...
Can we be less fanatical about the car we love and try to be more objective here. If you claim this article is garbage and the Volts out there will last many miles/years after the warranty expires, please back your statement with some reasoning.

Peace and Love.... lets keep Volting :D
 
#11 ·
I've kept my MY 2012 in good condition. There are no problems with it now, except for the fact that it is near the end of its warranty.
Wouldn't there be a market for a new power train for this shell? Bring it in, install a gen 2 powertrain and battery, and send us out with another 100k warranty on the new components? Wouldn't that be less expensive than throwing everything away and buying a new one? I know, probably not.
 
#14 ·
As one who always purchases used vehicles and never drives more than 10,000 miles in a year, my Volt will probably go ten years without significant mechanical problems. At that point, I will have saved more than the price of a new vehicle due to low lifetime cost. At ten years, the technology within the vehicle will be so outdated, I will be likely be ready to purchase a new vehicle before I reach 100,000 miles on the odometer. That will allow me to retain some value to trade toward a newer vehicle, while giving the burden of risk for major repairs to pass to someone with less financial capacity to purchase a newer vehicle.
 
#15 ·
It is still a fixable car after warranty. Get a set of repair manuals if you need them and if you have to fix anything high voltage, try to get some good advice first before you may want to tackle it. Google is your friend in that case too.

Aside from the electric power train, it is a regular car. Even with that, the electronic power train is all modular and for the most part plug and play. If you ever have to drop the main battery, then that will be the time you may have validity if you have to do it yourself. There is a video though of a tear down of the battery and is actually quite easy to follow. There is enough current to kill you though.
 
#16 ·
From posts of problems people have had here
(which are not often at all, if you consider how many users there are here, and that many people only came here when they had a problem and googled it - i.e. userbase is biased towards people with issues)
issues aren't that complicated or expensive, they're just hard to diagnose without knowing the vehicle inside and out, or having the GM software tools.

That being said, a lot of issues are identified and detailed here thanks to knowledgeable members (including certified volt techs), making it easier to pinpoint issues.
It costs a lot less to fix that problem if you go into it having an idea of exactly where to look.
example, the service high voltage system message - people have had thousands of dollars worth of things replaced and days in the shop. When apparently the only thing that throws that message is a coolant sensor, worth a few dollars.

Other than things like that, it's quite straight forward to repair. The engine (mechanically) is the same as used in many GMs, the brakes, shocks, etc are all standard automotive parts.
The only tricky things are software (requiring $pecial GM programs) and the HV components (which thankfully are warranted for 8-10 years)
 
#17 ·
Independent service shop certifications can be had for the Volt (the article indicates that this is not the case for Tesla). In some areas this may be worth the expense - others clearly not.

Many people fear the dealer service department, and for good reason. I don't fear mine and there are several others in my area that garner similar praise to that which I give to mine. There is no longer any excuse for the "old school" way of finding up-charges for dealer repairs, unless your shop already has a notorious reputation (in which case they have to scrap for every dollar).

This is why I bristle at the stereotypical dealership memes. They do no service to honest service professionals like the ones I employ when needed.

Car repair is expensive. Get used to it. You want more of this and that in your car and there's a back end to all that technology. Imagine how much more complicated it will be with autonomous cars, yet we read often about how wonderful it will be. Maybe that's because no one has had a repair bill for one yet, ya think?
 
#20 ·
@hellsop
You make very good points. Nevertheless, the Volt is destined to go to the Dealer. The used car market is very strange in some ways, most people that buy second hand avoid the dealer. People are also afraid of new technology.

Resale value is definitely low, that is a fact (although it's doing pretty well compared to others like the Leaf). If this trend continues, then the car value vs repair cost dilema is inevitable.

Independent service shop certifications can be had for the Volt (the article indicates that this is not the case for Tesla). In some areas this may be worth the expense - others clearly not.
Can you share some additional information on this service shop certification out of the Authorized GM Dealer network? I like the Volt so much that I'm willing to invest in promoting, importing and selling them locally, but I need to figure out the support aspect first.
 
#18 ·
A) The vast majority of the things that happen to a car due to age are typical car stuff. Worn tie rod ends. Tired suspensions. Aging 12v batteries. Mechanical linkages that get old and loose. Those things aren't special to Volts and there's zero reason to think they'll cost more to fix on the Volt than other similar cars.

B) Other things that happen to cars that are expensive don't even apply to Volts. Transmission rebuilds? There's no separate transmission, just a weird but simple planetary gear array and an even simpler reducer. Engine rebuilds? We don't even have enough data on engine problems to know how to predict anything: The Volt runs the ICE like no other car on the planet, incorporating pretty much every bit of homespun advice that works about making engines last a long time engineered right into the thing.

C) Cheap preventative maintenance is largely ... gone. Mostly because so much of it is around making gas engines tolerate short trips and not being able to meter things that the Volt can, and that the Volt so seldom uses the ICE. Oil changes are mostly bi-annual. Brake jobs are mostly gone. Annual coolant changes are gone in favor of pricey but very long-lasting coolant. Annual tuneups, even before the Volt, got computerized down to occasional "plugs and wires" replacements, and even those in a Volt are further between because hours on the engine are so few.

D) The most dire predictions a half decade ago, about having to replace the battery pack at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars every 50k miles, turn out not to be true. There's individual flaws here and there, fixed under warranty, and resolved. By the time a Volt's got 50k miles on it, all the gremlins have starved to death in it and it'll probably survive until it dies a mangled death trying to protect its passengers from a crash.

E) Residual value is a funny thing, because it's constantly at war with how much you like the car. If a car is worth far more than you like it, you're stupid not to sell it and get something else, and become happier thereby. If a car is worth much less than you love it, then you keep it, and be happier thereby.
 
#21 ·
Definitely not the best forum to ask this. You are in a round about way asking whether a large number of the members of this site have possibly made an unwise financial decision, if that was part of their motivation. I also suspect a majority of Volt owners haven't considered grabbing a transmission out of a junkyard and throwing it in on a Saturday and so have no perspective on what you are talking about.

I agree in the sense that the Volt is a great car, just don't own one. While I really admire the Voltec drivetrain, I have dissuaded a few people from buying a Volt and instead steer them towards considering a lease. If their main concern is being financially prudent, I recommend going with something with a known track record.

Controls systems that require specialized training and equipment to diagnose/fix will generally lose to simpler ones if the acquisition cost is the same. Unless it was dirt cheap, I wouldn't own one without a warranty.
 
#23 ·
Every once in a while there is a repair price quoted somewhere for some component that we've historically seen CAN fail on these cars, and the price is cost prohibitive for the car in question.

There is a Facebook thread now about someone who says get rid of your 70K+ mile Volts because they're in for a $7,000 repair of the motor stator (bearing)? All of us know this is a repair covered to 8/100 under Voltec, but this individual says he not only paid for it, but has it failing again 40K miles later. This kind of post tugs at your heartstrings of dealership service departments "running up the bill" for services that they're not even sure they need to do because they've not seen the problem before. We know some of this happens under warranty already, and know that they have a hotline to GM engineering/super techs as needed if they choose to use it.

What is impressive to me is the repair dollar value to make a car worthless seems to be well below $5,000 for a 2011 and newer vehicle. Anecdotally there are many battery degraded Nissan Leafs that missed the warranty, are range limited to below Chevy Volt EV numbers, and the current owners can't justify paying out for a battery replacement that might get them another 4 years of use from the vehicle.

I haven't heard enough similar stories on the Volt, and can't remember any on older higher mileage cars. I guess I'll keep up with my plan of three more years ownership to see what I have with a 100,000 mile car!
 
#25 ·
Is the FB complainer from Tennessee? If so, he was on this forum about a year or two ago complaining about how volts were bad and not nearly as good as the BMWs he previously owned. We later discovered that he drives very spirited and pretty much wore his bearings out by driving like Jeff Gordon.
 
#26 ·
If you plan on being a long term Volt owner, then find a Chevy dealer you trust and build a long term relationship with them. At a point the saturation of Volts on the road will result in experienced qualified and honest service departments just about everywhere. My 2011 with 82,000 miles on the odometer has not cost me a dime in repairs. Yes it has had repairs all warranty covered. None of those repairs any more traumatic than any other cars failures which I've paid for in the past. The fact that we save probably $1000 to $2000 a year on gasoline alone is a buffer justification to keep a Volt long term also. I looked at my brakes the other day when rotating tires they are barely worn. My BMW and my Volvo had cost me hundreds of dollars in brake repairs by 80,000 miles.
 
#29 ·
Do you ever wonder where do your totaled vehicles go? For some reason you guys stay away from vehicles with an accident showing in the history report. These repaired cars sometimes go for half the price of another exactly the same but without the accident. So even if they can be repaired, they're usually not repaired because there's no market for them.... in the US that is.

Well, they go to the third world. I estimate that 80% of the vehicles sold in Honduras come from these insurance auctions. There's a huge industry around this. They ship 3 cars inside a Chiquita refrigerated container (we export a lot of fruit and is cheap to ship using these returning containers), they process these cars like huge car factories. They get repaired and sold. I suspect the Volt is simply going to the junk yards in the US, there's simply no Know How in these markets to buy a wrecked Volt and repair it.

Here are some pictures:
Motor vehicle Mode of transport Parking lot Vehicle Public space

Property Architecture Real estate Building Vehicle


This is how I shipped mine:
Transport Vehicle Soil Asphalt

Land vehicle Vehicle Car Motor vehicle Alloy wheel

Land vehicle Vehicle Car Sedan Chevrolet volt
 
#35 ·
"(PROGRAMMING REQUIRED BEFORE USE)" this is what I'm talking about. Even if you buy one used from a Junk Yard, you still need the dealer!


TRANSAXLE. Automatic
TRANSAXLE,AUTO (SERVICE)(WHEN SERVICING RHD VEHICLES, MUST TRANSFER AUX PUMP HARNESS BRACKET FROM EXISTING TRANS.)(REMANUFACTURED-NOT FOR SALE WHERE IMPORTS ARE RESTRICTED)(CODE 2ACI, 2AAI)(PROGRAMMING REQUIRED BEFORE USE)
TRANSAXLE, Automatic. For: RC,RD,RE ELECTRONIC RATIO SELECT AUTO TRANS(MKA),2.16R(FXW),LEFT HAND DRIVE(LHD) (2011 - 2014). Required: 01
TRANSAXLE,AUTO (SERVICE)(WHEN SERVICING RHD VEHICLES, MUST TRANSFER AUX PUMP HARNESS BRACKET)(REMANUFACTURED-NOT FOR SALE WHERE IMPORTS ARE RESTRICTED)(CODE 1AAI,1ACI,1ABI,1ADI)(PROGRAMMING REQUIRED BEFORE USE)
TRANSAXLE, Automatic. For: RC ELECTRONIC RATIO SELECT AUTO TRANS(MKA) (2011 - 2014). Required: 01
Motor vehicle Line art Drawing Auto part Vehicle
 
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