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Is the Volt a throwaway car? Owning past 5yr/100k miles...

33K views 67 replies 39 participants last post by  madmike 
#1 ·
I came across this blog with an interesting point of view, if a car is expensive and hard to repair, it's trash after the warranty expires. The author claims the Tesla Model S falls in this category.

It's no secret the Volt is designed to require the dealer more than it should, so what do you think will happen now that we're reaching this point of Volts' warranties expiring in massive quantities?

https://syonyk.blogspot.se/2016/03/is-tesla-building-throwaway-cars.html
 
#34 ·
All cars are throw away cars, but the point is that you use them while you have them. You are paying for transportation, so people should be calculating a car's worth by what it costs to use them to travel. By the time a Volt reaches the end of its life cycle (especially if you've invested in solar), it will cost pennies less per mile traveled than any other car on the road, including a Prius. So sure, it can get away with being a "throw away car."
 
#37 ·
The author appears to ignore all aspects of reliability and durability in favor of a discussion purely of repairability. He's not completely wrong in the points he makes on that subject - but he's assuming that the current state of affairs will continue to be the case, which seems unlikely.

Already a new breed of repair experts are showing up on TMC, with the ability to reach into the guts of the computers and recode pieces as necessary. One of them even installed Autopilot on a Pre-AP car and got it working fully! As the mass of cars grows and the cars age, more options will come along. The folks that have had them in pieces said the Model S is actually relatively easy to work on as cars go.

The repair manuals are available in Massachusetts, where the law requires it (which makes it especially frustrating that they aren't available to the rest of us, but I'm fairly sure that'll change with time.)

More importantly, I don't agree with the author's initial approach that all cars break down so the frequency of breaking isn't relevant and we need to focus on repairs. Can you name another car with an 8 year unlimited mile warranty on the entire powertrain? I can't. Tesla is confident the cars will last, and they're probably right.

(The only other unlimited mileage warranty I came across was from Rolls-Royce - their bumper to bumper warranty is (used to be?) 36 months, unlimited miles. Not that I was ever in the market for one of their cars, but I was amused to see it.)

Also, most of the concerns about repairs don't apply to the Volt - service manuals are certainly available, and so are parts. There aren't many independent shops yet, but there will be - a few are starting to appear that specialize in EVs/Hybrids, and more will follow.
 
#38 · (Edited)
@saghost

You make some very valid points in favor of the Tesla. Another thing to consider is the performance of the Model S, it's right there at the same level of super exotic cars that are extremely expensive to maintain and repair. These exotics aren't that reliable either.

Perhaps this explains why Teslas are holding their resale value well, can't say the same about the Volts. Any input why this is happening?
 
#39 ·
Low gas prices, poor public image after the campaigns a few years ago, and progress by GM.

GM has made improvements to the Volt every model year, and lowered the price a few times as well. That's good for the public in general and overall Volt adoption, but bad for the resale value of earlier Volts. And unlike Tesla, GM doesn't update older cars at all. My 2012 Volt will never have Hold mode or selectable ERDTT or the "idling" ERDTT mode, even though those features are on 2013s which also cost less initially and are presumably simple updates.

At the same time, gas prices have somehow stayed low for a year, leading to less demand for green cars. (Blame international politics and domestic problems in other countries for this one.) Also, the events of 2011-2012 have left a lot of people with either no idea of what a Volt really is, or a confused/warped one, which also lowers resale value.

And of course, there's the federal tax credit and state incentives. Folks that report the horrible resale value of Volts always fail to account for these. If you start from the price after receiving these incentives (which is where the used market always starts - otherwise, a used car would be more expensive than a new one to the buyer,) the loss in resale value doesn't look nearly as bad. It'll be interesting to see how that picture changes in a couple years when the credits start going away (unless Congress changes the rules, of course.)

My state didn't have a state incentive when I bought, so of course I lost value without getting the money, but I'll survive. :)
 
#40 ·
I'm thinking economies-of-scale should influence the manufacturing and retail prices of Voltec replacement components. Assuming GM Voltec cars can proliferate nearly as well as Prius did, then parts and labor replacement costs should roughly follow that of the long-lived Prius.

But if Voltec parts stay relatively esoteric, the economies-of-scale benefits simply won't be realized...
 
#41 ·
Given that Erick Belmer has hit 330,000 miles and keeps going, I'm growing more confident that despite the complex transmission, this car is going to last a long time with out the usual pure gas car problems.

I believe Erik has only had to replace to wheel bearings, one around 80,000 miles (kind of low miles for that to happen in my opinion) and the second one at over 200,000 miles (kind of good if you ask me).

He did have some CPU failure that prevented the car from starting at 313,000 miles. But aren't those things on all cars now?
 
#46 ·
Given that Erick Belmer has hit 330,000 miles and keeps going, I'm growing more confident that despite the complex transmission, this car is going to last a long time with out the usual pure gas car problems.
I'd argue the Volt's 4ET50 is less complex than most "regular" car transmissions. Fewer moving parts and wear clutches than automatic (certainly) or manual transmissions (debatable). More complex code controlling everything, but mechanically simpler. I think it's perceived as more complex due to having 3 sources of power, but two of those are electric motors with 1 moving part... very reliable). I'm personally more concerned with the various computers / control modules failing than the transmission failing...
 
#44 ·
It'll be a throw away car when you can no longer get critical parts for it. When you can't get control modules, battery packs, transmissions, etc, that's when it's done for. But that's a long ways off, especially when you consider how long the Voltec warranty is, especially in states like CA, where it's even longer still. They have no choice but to maintain an inventory of those parts. Provided GM doesn't go under, I don't think we have anything to worry about.
 
#45 ·
I don't think the Volt is a throwaway car more than any other car. When the repairing costs will be more than the value of the car it would become a throwaway car, as much as ANY car falling in this situation. And there is no Volt as far as I know for which the costs of repairs were larger than the value of the car. Unless a Volt in an accident and declared total loss - and even then...
 
#47 · (Edited)
I bought my Volt because I like to drive it. This is the most important to me and I am ready to pay for that.
BUT... It happened that it also saves me money... excellent! It also saves environment - awesome!

Any car will die sooner or later, Volt will die "later" than ICEs most likely. When it die it will already pay for itself in gas and maintenance savings or will be close to that.

AND I might just use it's battery for my Solar set up.
 
#55 ·
I would summarize it more as a "THROWAWAY PRICE" because of the convoluted pricing including the $9000 tax write off and rebates or more. The Car is fantastic!! The manufacturer charges more while they can absorbing the govt tax assistance with higher prices. When the tax advantages disappear soon or get "TRUMPED" out...we will see more realistic and competitive pricing and the resale will be significantly better percentages :)
 
#56 ·
GM makes an average earning of $654/vehicle. You seem to be claiming they are making $9000 profit on each Volt, more than 10x the average profit they make across their vehicle line? Why isn't GM pushing the car more if they have so much fat built in to the profit?

I suspect when the tax credit goes away, the consumer will end up paying the full price.
 
#57 ·
Well, that's your opinion, not a fact. The fact is that the Voltec warranty is 8 years. Other things bare commonality to ice vehicles. But the ice engine should last longer in the Volt, if for no other reason, than it has less run time than a conventional ice, given the same mileage. Then there are brakes, typically a high maintenance item for ice vehicles, which again, enjoy longer service life in the Volt, due to regenerative braking ( and has been well documented on these forums). I am anticipating keeping mine at least eight years, which is longer than my wife and I have owned any other vehicle. I don't believe the facts support your opinion.
 
#62 ·
Did you even read the article?

I'm pretty sure there's correlation between the resale value of a Corolla and its reliability, low cost of ownership, easy to repair, availability and low price of parts, etc... There's also a reason why a $100k Mercedes S Class can be bought so cheap after the warranty expires.
 
#58 ·
The thing I don't get is why the guy saying he has $7k repairs is being impugned for saying it.

I can easily imagine a $7k bill on this. Take the battery out and replace a module/BMS etc., how much is that? Must be $000's if they already want several hundred just for replacing coolant. Add in a few other little gremlins and you've got yourself a big bill.

How much does it cost to change a light bulb on this thing? (How much to replace the indicator light on the door mirror?)
 
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