No GM bailout without plug-in production

[liveoilfree]

GM will submit a "survival plan" to the gummint which is supposed to convince somebody.

But GM, and the gummint, is going about it ALL WRONG.

They are not only doomed to failure, they will miss a great opportunity.

Cost-cutting by closing plants and firing line workers has the BAD effect of destroying our manufacturing base. Instead of continuing
the process of dismantling itself, GM should be doing a GENUINE restucturing and reorganization, to RETAIN and EXPAND that base, which contains the best workers in the world (contrary to GM's attempt to slander and blame their own workers).

What would that be like?

Well, GM has
too many of the WRONG dealers,
too many of the WRONG white-collar workers,
too many of the WRONG engineers, and
too little accountability.

Because GM has no effective oversight it is running wild (the Board of Directors is dominated by Wagoner, don't care if the stock goes to zero).

GM, and the gummint, must recognize the main problem:

GM IS MAKING THE WRONG CARS.

The solution is obvious, once you recognize the problem: remove the management that committed to making the wrong cars, remove the engineers who can't build better cars, and start from scratch with new management which has a real interest in making cars that people can't wait to buy.

Instead of FIRING, GM should be HIRING!!

GM should be retooling for world-class cars, cars that get more than 50 mpg, that are well-engineered, and that last longer than 10
years, cars that have features such as electric motor drivetrain, climate-controlled cabin, a goal of no emissions, and real efforts to PRODUCE such cars.

Instead of what GM's whining, simpering and pouting about all the things that it CAN'T do, it should start doing some of the things that need to be done! Get rid of failures and
disgraces like Wagoner, Lutz and the rest of the overpaid, failed execs and bonehead, arrogant managers.

Don't fall into the trap of letting GM continue its "Wagoner-Lutz road to failure".

Require that GM STOP making gas-guzzlers.

STOP paying for for production of the WRONG CARS.

GM must be FORCED to make cars that are in the public interest; they would find out, if they did, that they could make money doing so.

Auto makers should not receive our money unless they make cars that are in the public interest. GM has produced a plug-in car in the
past, but now is stalling and refusing to make plug-in EVs.

Toyota's RAV4-EV is still on the road, last sold in Nov., 2002, and running fine on the same set of batteries for the last 7 years.

GM, and the rest of the Auto Alliance, must be required to make and SELL a plug-in car if they want to do business in America.

[kubel]

GM IS MAKING THE WRONG CARS.

I somewhat agree with you, but making $40K plugins exclusively is not going to solve any problems. The main problem is that people can't afford (or aren't willing to risk buying) a new car right now, not necessarily because they can't find a good car to drive. The economy sucks and those that have money don't feel confident enough of their economic future to make such an expensive investment.

We have to remember that EREV / EV proponents like ourselves
(who say we won't buy a new car unless it has a plug) make up such a small percentage of potential auto buyers (I dare say less than 1%).

True, GM and the others need to offer plugins, but what they really need now are small, cheap, fuel efficient gas cars--- the kind of cars that people (who are willing to purchase one now) can afford.

GM didn't change direction fast enough from gas guzzling trucks (big bucks) to efficient cheap cars, and now they are paying for it... or should I say WE are paying for it.

I'm in favor of allowing the big three to continue selling gas vehicles according to demand (even if they guzzle gas) since this is capitalism. But I also agree with you that if we are dumping billions of dollars into the auto industry and switching toward a more socialist society and economy, we should at least set it on the right track and require these companies to start developing and releasing EREVs and pure EVs within an acceptable timetable. And so far, Chrysler and GM are focusing on electric drive vehicles.

When gas prices go back up once the economy recovers, the public will once again look to electric drive vehicles, and there will be demand from more than just our small voices. It might take about 8 years, but I'm confident we will make a very fast and very beneficial switch. And I'm hoping that companies like GM, Chrysler, and Ford employ tens of thousands of American workers to build those cars, batteries, and electronics.

[omnimoeish]

Voltec is an investment in the future. It's going to take a while for mass production to kick in and the price to come down. The Kruze is being developed and will be out soon, the new Camaro will be out soon, the Spark will be out soon. The new direct injected 6 speed 2010 Equinox that gets 30 mpg in a midsize SUV as well as the the Buick LaCrosse. GM is getting there. There will be cars that people want. Buick and Cadillac are on top of the quality rankings. Even the 2009 Chevy Malibu hybrid got best in class intial quality from JD Power & Assoc. Up until about a year ago, people wanted SUVs, they loved them. It was 75% of American's dream to drive an Escalade. Within 4 or 5 months, that all changed. The SUV bubble popped and GM is reacting. Everybody's sales are down. GM and Chrysler's are down more than the industry average because people are worried they could be in bankruptcy within the next few months, let alone the warranty life of their vehicles.

GM is on the forefront of plug-in technology. They have put all of the advertisements reasonably possible, all of the research and funding and their smartest people on the job to make it happen. They are even including it as one of the main characters in the next Transformers movie (there are teasers on the internet of it already if you want to see it in action). I don't think you could ask them to do anything more to make plug ins a reality right now. Especially with the economy the way it is.

I know it sucks that tax money is going into a private company, but that TARP money would've just gone to fund some fat cats new yacht anyway, it might as well go into a company that will actually use it to build a product.

[DaV8or]

You lost me at "gummint". Sorry.

[omnimoeish]

You lost me at "gummint". Sorry.

hehe, understandable, I had to figure that one out too. I think he means "gumminit".

[Insider]

Cost-cutting by closing plants and firing line workers has the BAD effect of destroying our manufacturing base. Instead of continuing the process of dismantling itself, GM should be doing a GENUINE restucturing and reorganization, to RETAIN and EXPAND that base, which contains the best workers in the world (contrary to GM's attempt to slander and blame their own workers).

Wow Doug, you almost sound like you're pro-gm. Bottom line, it takes money to run a buisness, and you all are bitching about what they are getting. So, how do you propose to expand with NO money over and above what they are getting that supports a downsized company and production?

Well, GM has
too many of the WRONG dealers,
too many of the WRONG white-collar workers,
too many of the WRONG engineers, and
too little accountability.

Hmm, I take a little offense to most of that. Tell me, if we build and design such crap, why are all the other automakers lining up at OUR door to purchase the powertrains products on their way out the door now or those coming in the pipeline?

GM IS MAKING THE WRONG CARS.

GM sells over 2 million units alone in the US. More than every other automaker.

Instead of FIRING, GM should be HIRING!!

Apparently, you have some more money to offer up to warrant this? Please send the money to GM HQ in Detroit, MI. promptly as we are eagerly awaiting it.

GM should be retooling for world-class cars, cars that get more than 50 mpg, that are well-engineered, and that last longer than 10 years, cars that have features such as electric motor drivetrain, climate-controlled cabin, a goal of no emissions, and real efforts to PRODUCE such cars.

What year are you living in? Climate controlled cabin? Maybe 1970? They already build world class cars. Just not world class cracker boxes like you want to drive. However, the answer to that one is behind door 1.

Get rid of failures and disgraces like Wagoner, Lutz and the rest of the overpaid, failed execs and bonehead, arrogant managers.

Commenting on pay. To put this to bed, do a search for Forbes top 500 list of CEO pay. Wagoner was 438 or lower in the list. Far from overpaid for running one of the largest global compaines in the world.

GM must be FORCED to make cars that are in the public interest; they would find out, if they did, that they could make money doing so. Auto makers should not receive our money unless they make cars that are in the public interest.

I'll remind you again, apparently they are building what alot of Americans want because they sold several million of them. More than any other OEM. FORCED? Wow, now you're going to go after a bigger giant and try to strong arm them?

Toyota's RAV4-EV is still on the road, last sold in Nov., 2002, and running fine on the same set of batteries for the last 7 years.

Should we care? What's that? Oh, you can't buy replacement batteries? So, sorry. Glad you were able to strong arm and harrass Toyota enough that they folded and sold it to you.

GM, and the rest of the Auto Alliance, must be required to make and SELL a plug-in car if they want to do business in America

Again, trying to push your CA propaganda on everyone.

Answer me this: Without batteries, you don't have an electric car. Where are we getting the materials for these batteries? Hmm, moving from dependence on oil to dependence on another foreign owned material?

[DaV8or]

Hmm, I take a little offense to most of that.

Don't sweat it too much. Liveoilfree is just another person that has fallen victim to popular myths and blah, blah, blah. No idea about the challenges that have faced domestic car manufactures for years. No clue about the gravity of the situation our country is in now and how that seriously complicates things, just frustration that he doesn't have the perfect electric car of his or her dream right now in the driveway.

[kubel]

...just frustration that he doesn't have the perfect electric car of his or her dream right now in the driveway.

Actually he does, a RAV4 EV and a couple conversions I think.

Of course, he probably won't reply. He just blasts anti-GM threads out and never contributes to the discussion. It's funny. I've told him before that he seems to hate GM so much that he will actually go as far as to rather see GM fail than have them produce an EREV.

He wants to believe GM is so evil and that the Volt is such a hoax that he is taking all his effort and energy and focusing it onto trying to hurt the public's perception of this new electric drive vehicle, rather than try to encourage people to rally together in support of it. It's really quite sad actually.