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How much would you be willing to pay for the solar panel option?

  • I don't want the solar panel, even if it's free.

    Votes: 54 12.7%
  • For $40k, that panel had better be included in the price.

    Votes: 90 21.2%
  • I want the panel, but won't pay more than $250 for it.

    Votes: 73 17.2%
  • I want the panel, but won't pay more than $500 for it.

    Votes: 109 25.6%
  • I want the panel, but won't pay more than $1k for it.

    Votes: 61 14.4%
  • I want the panel, but won't pay more than $2k for it.

    Votes: 23 5.4%
  • I want the panel, and will pay more than $2k for it.

    Votes: 15 3.5%

Solar Panel Option for Chevy Volt

102K views 159 replies 78 participants last post by  hparker 
#1 · (Edited)
There has been quite a bit of discussion centering on a possible optional solar panel on the roof (?) of the Volt. Without knowing any details on the panel, we can make a reasonable guess that it would be capable of putting out 100-200W under direct, full sun. This is clearly not enough to provide a meaningful charge against a possible 40-mile all-electric range, but it could be enough to provide other services - as yet unknown.

How much would you be willing to pay for the solar panel option? You may select only one choice.
 
#3 ·
It all depends on how they integrate the solar system. If it just runs a small fan and is not even connected to the battery or electric A/C system in any way then I would only pay a small amount. I would be curious to see how it helps on hot, sunny days. It can be rough getting into a car during a hot summer day in Texas.

If it's more integrated into the system and actually runs the electric A/C, allows maybe a few other functions like being able to call up using your on-star with your phone and having the cooling begin, etc. then I would pay far more. This is Car 2.0 to me. It will of course only be taste of things to come but I want to explore this. Thus, Over $2000 would be a small price for a serious solar system. Maybe they can have a few solar options in a few years. One using high efficiency cells that is tied into the charging system and one that is much cheaper but only runs a simple interior vent fan. I'll take the top option please.

Heck, How about a fold-out solar tent aftermarket system? You would park your car, open up the back hatch, unfold this awning / tent / solar collector system and stake it into the ground. It could have a 1 kW + capacity and give you a good 20 miles of range if you let it sit out for 8 hours or so in the hot sun. You could choose to power a stereo system, TV or other camping items.

Oh, that sound's great! Perhaps a minivan E-REV camper with full, fold-out solar systems will be the new rage. You will be generating your own power for a day (and night) of clean and environmentally friendly fun. You can arrive and depart from the sensitive campsite using only the power of the sun. No pollution (noise or emission) left for your friends and fellow campers. How responsible! It could be possible to have a camera on your camp site and be able to monitor it from your cell phone (an earlier poster suggested the camera idea - brilliant!). Now this is what I'm talking about for Car or Camper 2.0. Sign me up!
 
#4 ·
If the solar panel provides enough power to run a good air circulation system to keep the car cool, and IF it provides some meaningful charge to the battery when not cooling the car, I might be willing to spend as much as $1000 depending on results. On the other hand, I could skip it too.
 
#5 ·
Vote for no more than $2000 but that's because there was a $1500 option. I would only be willing to pay this much if it keeps the cabing cooler, can charge the battery some, and is at least rated 150W. If the battery can't be charged at all then I'ld be willing to pay $400.
 
#6 · (Edited)
As long as it doesn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.


Basically, I'm saying 'not on the first gen model'. Once it gets into production and production costs go down, then start accessorizing it.


Adding, I don't really need the panel - I park my car in my garage at home, and park in a garage at work. In 80% of my trips, the car will not be exposed to direct sunlight.



You know what... I wonder how much gas we could save if everyone was able to park in a parking garage in the summer?
 
#15 ·
That sounds terribly low, even at cost. Remember that the cost isn't all solar panel; quite a bit of cheap steel gets replaced with more expensive glass or polycarbonates, plus support electronics, wiring, etc. So I can't see it being anywhere near that cheap.

But having said that, I'll also add that considering automakers can sleep at night after soaking customers $300 (or more) for a basic car stereo, a $2000+ solar panel option shouldn't really surprise anybody.

Hell, just check out the price of the solar roof option planned for the 2010 Prius... holy crap... Link: ABG story on 2010 Prius trim levels.

It's in the table near the bottom, as an option. $3600!! WTF. I mean, yeah, it includes a moonroof, but COME ON. That's almost 20% of the price of the base car!! :mad:
 
#18 ·
I don't understand the "it better be included for $40k" option much less the fact that most voters feel that way.
As far as I understand the solar option is only for the Cadillac version and not the Volt.
Second, any idea that it will be enough to run the car's A/C is unrealistic.
Third, nothing is free, if it is included in the base price, then you paid for it if you wanted to or not.
It is an expensive frill that has almost no functional value, and I would not want to pay for it, so my vote would be "No, I don't want it and don't want to be forced to buy it." However that option is not there and I had to settle for "No, not even if it is free", which of course I don't believe is possible.
 
#19 ·
And your put your name down as innovator? lol How about at least read all the arguments that have been posted thus far about SOTS and then make some comments. Do you disagree with all of the extra functionality that can become a reality (from advanced security to pre-conditioning of the interior to always on Internet communication with the car's systems, etc.) or did you not even think or read about it?

Also, what are you talking about that running the A/C is unrealistic? From all the calculations that have been done it was shown that you can even get around 5 miles a day of actual vehicle movement if you live in a nice sunny climate.

Did you do your A/C calculations? Also, you do realize that you don't have to A/C your car for the entire day. Right? It would be like running your home A/C when you are at work. If you work, your car can be out in the parking lot for a good 5-8 sun hours getting a good charge. Before you leave the office you can use your phone to tell your car to take the death heat out. Are you saying there would not be enough energy for that? If so, you would be wrong. There would not only be enough to do that but to get you a few miles down the road.

As Lutz says, "You can't get gen two without gen one." Yes, the first solar option will be expensive. We know that. Maybe only a few will be sold. However, a few sold is much better than none! Why? Because the people that designed the first gen option will probably design the next gen option. It will be better than the first, more integrated, better solar technology, etc.

It's all about the innovation process. Just like your name. How ironic.
 
#20 ·
I so hope that GM includes a Solar Panel on the roof of the Chevy Volt. Also, if the Solar Panel on the roof was converted into some kind of sunroof, that would be even better. I just hope the Solar Panel would be used for controlling the A/C and adding additional charge to the car battery. That would be sweet.

oh... and as for the price. If it's an all in one retractable sunroof option... then I'll pay for the option.
 
#24 ·
I don't think it would be possible (due to the charge management system) to discharge the car through at least the charge port anyway. Any "deeper" access would likely require breaking glass or other forms of vandalism which just wouldn't be worth the few cents of electricity you would get per minute or what not.
 
#25 ·
I don't think it would be possible (due to the charge management system) to discharge the car through at least the charge port anyway.
For the first generation I imagine this is true. However if they ever do come up with a V2G system, then thieving could be really easy. I'm not a fan of V2G. Anyhow, I posted before half as a joke. It will be a while before we have electricity pirates.
 
#27 ·
You mean like people are walking around stealing your talk time? How many hackers out there are capable of getting into a sophisticated computer-to-computer interfaces and tell one of the computers to download minutes (or miles). I'm guessing it won't be a problem. Sure, some hackers exist but why would they waste the time when the cost of electricity is but a few cents per mile?

I would imagine if they are going to risk going to jail that they would spend their genius on something more valuable, like hacking a military or bank database.
 
#29 ·
< $250 if all it is, is a cooling fan.

Willing to pay $500 if it can also trickle charge the battery. While it might not charge it full while at office. It'd be nice if it could charge it full in a week of being in the sun.




Perhaps two SOTS options will emerge. One that's bone cheap and only powers an interior fan and one that starts to explore the possibilities of SOTS. This option would have to be connected to the battery.

I choose option 2 please.
 
#30 ·
V2G will be a valuable commodity to utilities, hopefully valuable enough that they are willing to fill cities with recharging stations and pay for the privilege of recharging your battery.. hopefully using wireless power transfer pads below your parking space.. look maw, no hands!
 
#32 ·
Jake

We have 10 KW of Solar on the house which is more then we use. Using available space on the Volt for solar panels, I would suggest close to 600 watts should be enough to provide a small charge to the batteries over a period of a couple of hours providing a small increase in range. A $1,000 for 600 watts with a top rated controller would be a bargain.
 
#33 · (Edited)
We have 10 KW of Solar on the house which is more then we use. Using available space on the Volt for solar panels, I would suggest close to 600 watts should be enough to provide a small charge to the batteries over a period of a couple of hours providing a small increase in range. A $1,000 for 600 watts with a top rated controller would be a bargain.
Anyone know what the output of the solar panel on the Prius is?

Let’s say the surface of the Volt’s roof is 2 square meters. At noon the incident power would be 2,000 watts. Assuming a 20% efficient panel (a really good one) you would capture 400 watts! Over the course of an average day (say conservatively 5 hours of sun even though the average day is 14 hours or something) you could capture 2 kwh, enough for 8 miles AER. That's actually a pretty respectable number for using today's technology. My daily commute is only about 8 miles.
 
#35 ·
I had no idea that solar was that far along (400watts from 2 sq meters). Do you have a link to a manufacturer?
 
#36 · (Edited)
"Fraunhofer Institute researchers achieve record solar efficiency of 41.1%"

http://www.greentechnolog.com/2009/01/solar_efficiency_record_achieved_at_fraunhofer.html

Sure, It might cost you more than the price of the Volt to get 2 square meters installed on your car's roof but yes, they have come a long way. ;) That's over 800 watts of solar goodness (in theory under perfect conditions).

To be more realistic you might be lucky to get around 10 percent efficiency for around 200 watts if 2 square meters can be found. Don't forget that things are moving quickly with nanotechnology and companies like Nanosolar, who are now producing very inexpensive cells at huge volumes using the same production technology (roll-to-roll) that is used to make garbage bags and newspapers. So, you just might get that 400 watts at an affordable price quicker than you realize.

The first SOTS (Solar on the Surface) for cars is going to be more for show and will probably only power an interior fan. Then some manufacturer will hook the cells up to the battery and from there the cells and software will only get better and more useful. Always on Internet, advanced security, phone-in commands, system status updates and even a few extra miles of range when the conditions are good.

It's my feeling that SOTS will be standard on most electric vehicles in less than 10 years. It's one of the only ways to get energy into the battery at remote locations (like airport parking lots, sport centers, big box retail, country farms, deserts, etc.). Once people have it and all of the functionality is exposed, It will be like, "Why didn't they do this before?"
 
#38 ·
Texas: It will be like, "Why didn't they do this before?"

That has a simple answer: because it wasn't cost-effective.

Geronimo: "Of course, getting monocrystalline silicon to contour to the shape of the Volt might be hard - maybe they could make little tiles, like for the Space Shuttle, each one precisely shaped to be mounted in an exact spot..."

Which would easily double the cost. The vehicle is subject to more stress and likely accidental damage than rooftop panels. And it likely has a shorter life; you'll have to "renew" your solar investment when you scrap out the car, where SPV for the roof is still likely going strong.

I like the idea of my car charging itself for free but we're not anywhere near ready for that. Just take that $large that SOTS for the Volt would cost and buy solar panels for the house. It's the most cost-effective way of harnessing sunlight with SPV. You'll get, easily, twice the wattage per dollar.

Let's not fiddle around with marginal ideas (like solar road surface, which has to tolerate gravel and sand rubbed into its surface by 36-ton trucks). Let's just focus on getting cheap, reasonably efficient watts from solar. SOTS will come along, in due course, when the cost of plain vanilla SPV is very low.
 
#40 ·
Geronimo: "Of course, getting monocrystalline silicon to contour to the shape of the Volt might be hard - maybe they could make little tiles, like for the Space Shuttle, each one precisely shaped to be mounted in an exact spot..."

Which would easily double the cost. The vehicle is subject to more stress and likely accidental damage than rooftop panels. And it likely has a shorter life; you'll have to "renew" your solar investment when you scrap out the car, where SPV for the roof is still likely going strong.

I like the idea of my car charging itself for free but we're not anywhere near ready for that. Just take that $large that SOTS for the Volt would cost and buy solar panels for the house. It's the most cost-effective way of harnessing sunlight with SPV. You'll get, easily, twice the wattage per dollar.

Let's not fiddle around with marginal ideas (like solar road surface, which has to tolerate gravel and sand rubbed into its surface by 36-ton trucks). Let's just focus on getting cheap, reasonably efficient watts from solar. SOTS will come along, in due course, when the cost of plain vanilla SPV is very low.
As I said, there is already a solar option for the Prius:


Thirty-six Kyocera solar cells are positioned on a moon roof, which doubles as a sunroof. Energy is converted at a 16.5 efficiency rate to power the ventilation fan and air conditioning system with about 50 watts of electricity.
http://solarpanelspower.net/solar-panels/third-generation-prius

This option is included in an 'option package', so it's hard to gauge the popularity directly, but:
Toyota had expected that between two and three percent of all Prius hybrids would be equipped with the sun-soaking option. In reality, Lentz reports "demand has been running closer to 12%.
http://green.autoblog.com/2009/08/13/toyota-prius-solar-sunroof-much-more-popular-than-planned/

It might not be "cost effective" to put solar cells on your new vehicle, but neither is leather seats, a high end sound system, room for four more passengers, a convertible top, or an extra 200 hp "cost effective", and yet a sizable number of people are persuaded to pay for these year after year.

BTW, the Volt is 70.8 inches wide: if the roof could accommodate a photovoltaic panel 65 inches wide by 47.72 inches long, that would be a two square meter surface.
The Sunpower module is already made of 96 solar cells: if they had to custom laser cut them another time or two, to make flat tiles that could be mounted on a slightly curved roof panel, I don't think that would double the cost of the module. Maybe GM could supply the stamped, shaped substrate, Sunpower could do the adhesives, wiring, whatever they do to make a module, then cover it with their weatherproof transparent plastic or glass that they use. I bet this could be done for $2000, and offered at cost by GM to create buzz about the Volt. 400 watts is only 8 times what is already available, a solar roof that is about 5 times more popular than expected.

Something to think about for 2012 and 2013 :)
 
#39 ·
Placing a bucket in your yard is a great way to catch rain water.

A 5 gal bucket can be filled with water in a matter of seconds.

It typically doesn't rain hard enough to fill a 5 gal pail in a matter of seconds :)

SOTS isn't going to give you the numbers you’re seeing on a bench. Case in point, Toyota uses it to run a ventilation fan.

To put that into perspective, why don't you drive your car to work (with the vent fan running)

Then Drive home with the vent fan off, and let me know how many more MPG you got.

---------

Don't get me wrong, solar is neat, but take it for what it is and stop fantasizing.
 
#42 ·
If you look back at the poll at the top of the post, you will see that most people want the solar panel - myself included. It just comes down to cost-effectiveness. Although it's hardly an accurate poll, you can see there are various cost thresholds for different people. If all the Volt's solar panel does is run a little fan to keep the inside cool, and it costs more than $2,000, I will probably skip it up here in Oregon; rolling the windows down one inch is free. If the solar roof can top off the battery and do other things, it becomes more interesting and my personal cost threshold rises. It all depends.
 
#46 ·
The solar-powered Loon boat looks nice, but I'm with DaV8or on this one. I would assume the boat includes batteries that are charged by the panels so you don't lose power with every passing cloud. I would bet that 1000W out of the panels is best-case: clear sky, sun directly overhead, etc.

1kW translates into about 1.34hp. To put that into perspective, that is the output of a very small trolling motor. On a boat that size, that would be a tiny motor; it would be insufficient to overcome any current in the water, making this a "lake-only" boat. Also, the "party barge" style boat presents quite a bit of surface area to the wind - you better have a tailwind, because a motor that small would be unable to counter the effects of even a light breeze.

Maybe the motor is larger, say 3hp (a good-sized trolling motor). You could draw more than 1kW out of the batteries, but you would be discharging them faster than the panels could charge them.

Overall, an interesting concept, but I'm not sure it's ready for the real world.
 
#51 ·
I looked into this boat a bit more.

This "Loon" electric boat has a 5.5 hp (4.1 kW) continuous rated electric motor, which they claim is "equal to 15 hp gas" (?). It uses 8 12-volt AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) deep cycle lead-acid batteries (they don't say the capacity, but I've seen this type of battery with 35 Ah up to 230 Ah, so 8 of these big ones would be 22 kWh, for a guesstimate). (Note the 12 month warranty on these batteries, but they 'expect' them to last 6 to 10 years).
Clean, quiet solar boating: http://www.buffalosolarboats.com/BuffaloSolarBoatsBrochure-loon.pdf (1 page PDF)
Big AGM battery: http://www.energymatters.com.au/fullriver-sealed-lead-acid-agm-battery-12volt-230ah-hgl-p-144.html

They say the top speed is 9.5 mph, and cruising speed is 7.5 mph, with a daily range of about 50 miles. If the battery was 22 kWh, that could drive the 4.1 kW motor for about 5.4 hours, so 51.3 miles at top speed. The solar panels could add maybe 4 kWh on a sunny day, for another 9.5 miles on the lake..

Yeah, 1000 w/peak panels is for best-case (peak) sun.
Yes, these quiet, electric boats are for "inland waterways and lake systems", some of which have rules banning loud, polluting gasoline engines.

The Tamarack Lake, in Pennsylvania, is like this:
http://www.fish.state.pa.us/water/lakes/tamarack/00tamarack.htm
Boating is limited to boats powered by electric motors and un-powered boats. There are 7 access points (ranging from gravel ramps to improved concrete ramps with small docks) and associated parking facilities.​
I don't think wind is much of a problem, there are a lot of open spaces on the boat, unlike a truck:


As for being "ready for the real world", I bet Buffalo Solar Boats hopes they are, since they are taking $500 deposits on these $29,900 boats, and
We are just about to start production on our boats and targeting a retail price for the base boat to be $29,900 USD. We expect to start shipping Loons by the end of 2009 and will notify you a minimum of 30 days prior to manufacturing your boat. At that time we will confirm the exact price and date of delivery.
http://www.tamarackelectricboats.com
 
#47 ·
Yes its intended for lakes only, and it has lots of batteries.. can you imagine taking one of these party barges into the ocean?, you would drown a couple of miles from the shore. It has a 10kwh battery pack so the solar cells will take forever to recharge the battery.

Its a cool idea for a small party boat, and that folding roof is really neat if you have to trailer it.
 
#49 ·
I looked at a couple of the links posted and saw that the Loon uses AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) lead-acid deep-cycle batteries, and will have vehicle-to-grid capability. I didn't see the 10kWh battery capacity or the electric motor size mentioned anywhere.
 
#48 ·
Here is another electric pontoon boat, made by the same company.. this one is doing a tour of New York State's canal system.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/06/the_loon_solara.php

"The Loon is a solar-assisted boat, meaning that it can take advantage of shore electrical power to help keep the batteries topped up. En route, the Gisbornes would do exactly as gas boats do and plug into a power outlet readily supplied by the marinas and lock stations they dock at overnight. Each day starts with a fully-charged pack of batteries and ends with about half of a charge still left."
 
#52 ·
I think calling the Loon a "solar-powered" boat is almost misleading. The solar cells might be able to deliver a full charge to the batteries, but only after days of full sun while the boat isn't being used. I think "solar-assisted" would be more appropriate.
 
#53 ·
There are many things you overlooked, obviously:

1) An electric motor has far more low-end torque to provide the feel of a much larger gas motor. It will pull like a bull. Not fast but this ain't no speed boat, boy.

2) Of course you will have a battery to feed off of. It’s a plug-in hybrid with the solar panel acting like regen (only it will provide more energy).

3) When you use this kind of boat on a lake you are not driving 50 miles usually. Probably just from your dock, dink around to your favorite spot to tie up with your friends and hang out drink beers, BBQ, swim, look at the beautiful girls, etc.

4) You can power all of your accessories all day long with that size array, as long as it's a nice sunny day.

5) Don't underestimate the range anxiety component of boating. In the past, I keep an extra battery on-board just in case I ran the main battery too low using the stereo, lights, etc. It's not fun to have to think about how much you have left and if it’s enough to crank the engine. This extra nine miles equivalent of power is a lot of entertainment and utility. You don't have to watch your batteries slowly drain and think about it. If it's sunny out you feel good and can relax more.

6) You are not thinking about all the benefits of silent operation, zero pollution, and general peace and quiet from a vehicle that is not racing along the lake at 60 mph.


If there are vehicles like this available then parks and lake management can ban those oil-slick generating noise makers making just about everyone happier (no, not the cigarette boat owners). I'm sure they can do like they are doing with smokers, give them their own space to foul up and let everyone else enjoy the peace and quiet. Of course, when they finally figure out how to make electric ski boats people will be up in arms again because these things are a menace to small lakes and rivers. They generate massive waves that just about knock small fishing boats over. Hummm, I'm guessing electric ski boats could be even more dangerous than the gas powered ones because you wouldn't hear them coming or be prepared for the wave. We'll all just have to be a bit more careful out there. Happy boating!
 
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