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The new PiP is the "Prius Prime": 22 EV miles, only *4* seats

13K views 55 replies 25 participants last post by  Qinsp 
#1 ·
#2 ·
This shows brand loyality will trump actual specs for some people.

The Volt is superior in every metric, but people will still buy these douche-canoes.
 
#3 ·
The areas the original PiP trumped the Gen 1 Volt (seating, rear legroom), have now been reversed, with the Gen 2 Volt now having greater seating capacity and legroom.

Oh, and 31 more EV miles, undoubtedly better driving performance, and the Volt doesn't look like the end result of a Taco Bell binge.

What does the new "PP" (aka poo-poo) have over the Volt now? Cargo capacity? The Prius badge? *barf*
 
#7 ·
It looks as though they are carrying over the toilet seat design of the center console to this new model. I'm sorry, I don't like it. The center display is impressive, though. I'm sure that it is a "tinny" as the 2016 Prius which is a negative in my book. I'm spoiled with the solid feel of my Volt.
 
#9 ·
Looks like the rear glass has a dip in the middle? wtf?

I mean what is going on with that car...what a disaster. It's ugly from every angle you look at it.
 
#12 ·
As someone who just start driving with Uber a few weeks ago- for which the Volt2 is almost the perfect car- Toyota's decision to not include that 5th seat is almost beyond belief. Now anyone who wants a PHEV for ridesharing will have to look elsewhere. Just like everyone else who can read a spec sheet and aren't fanbois of a particular brand.
 
#35 ·
To be honest I think the Volt's EV range, if not all current EV-REX systems will feel the same by end of year if not earlier. With the Bolt coming and Model III and EV range REX/Hybrid is going to need to seriously ramp up base EV miles. The REX "tax" is too high. Meaning, the loss of EV miles to have a REX car will make many ask, whats up with that?
 
#19 ·
#20 ·
Ouch, I hadn't noticed that it was only 4 seats. I had assumed it was the rear armrest down in the picture I'd seen.

Given that they have the Prius, it makes sense for them to work from the hybrid up, but the key elements when taking that approach need to be cost, utility and efficiency, and it seems that they've just given away some utility, which loses a competitive advantage.
 
#22 ·
#26 · (Edited)
Yikes, the front end looks like super high-end audiophile speakers, which BTW are about the ugliest things on earth. They are sculpted to maximize phase accuracy across the audio spectrum regardless of the visual aesthetic damage that might engender. At least the audiophile speakers have a good reason for looking ugly.

As another poster said, GM must be delighted with this reveal!
 
#27 ·
Mark my words - this will be the #1 selling Plug-In Hybrid in America. Priuses sell by the boatload and w/o dealers even trying to sell them. Heck, we already have evidence of how it will sell. Look back a couple of years at the LAST gen Prius plug-in. That thing was pathetic compared to the Volt and Toyota made very few and made even less of an effort to sell them...and yet people STILL bought 'em. Heck, I bet half the buyers weren't even AWARE of the existence of the Volt (and probably still aren't).

Now add the "hey my car has a giant screen just like a Tesla" factor, and the fact that the vast majority of car buyers don't care one whit about driving dynamics and instead would prefer to be driving a giant phone and well, there you go. Honestly the only omissions here are the 5th seat (really? - how did they let that happen) and, oddly enough, Apple Carplay and Android Auto.

Sadly...all hail the new king. :(


Insideevs sales chart
 
#28 ·
Now add ... the fact that the vast majority of car buyers don't care one whit about driving dynamics and instead would prefer to be driving a giant phone and well, there you go.

Sadly...all hail the new king. :(


Insideevs sales chart
Alas, a lot of hard truth there. Although things do happen in waves. For example, originally the Prius (or in fact any hybrid) was denigrated and despised almost universally, yet eventually it crested to become the mainstream transportation appliance that it is today. But I suspect that the new Prius has so many cons and so few pros, while at the same time the new Volt has so many pros and so few cons (by direct comparison) that even some of the aforementioned brain-dead appliance buyers will begin to wake up and we may just see the waves reverse course. We need to see what happens sales wise over the next year.

But I won't take away from your message, which is spot on. Just look at the traffic patterns on any given day. I see drivers all around me operating in an apparent coma: The light turns green up ahead, and one by one the lemmings wake up from their trance and begin to think about how to make the car go forward. A few even get through the light, then it's red again. Then in a straightaway, up to one-half of the drivers putt along at 10 MPH below the limit, even when rolling toward a green light up ahead that they don't seem to have learned won't stay that way long enough to get through the intersection. So then it goes amber, and in a perfect imitation of an automaton, they obediently start to step to the brake pedal when in fact they could easily glide through, even at their low velocity, long before the light ever turns red. Yep, your point is taken.
 
#47 ·
Hideous, just hideous.
 

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#54 ·
OK, so as information on the Prime has gradually appeared in various articles what we have now

Range: 22 miles AER estimated.
- Welcome to unblended range, Toyota!
- Meh ...
- ... but 51% of round trip commutes at 20 miles or less
- ... and 70-% of one-way trips are less than 10 miles
- ... and it will be efficient
- ... so it could be worse.
Curb weight: 3,322lb.
- not as low as some initial reports-
- those extra hundreds of pounds are likely the reason for it being a 4 seater
EV speed limit: 84mph. Now more than enough for most people.
EV performance:
- defaults to full EV mode, where pressing the accelerator won't cause the engine to run
- can accelerate using both motors (where have we seen that before?)
Charging: 3.3kW
- OK, typical PHEV
- (CHAdeMO, along with the nifty back-up power stuff available in Japan)
EV heating: gas injection heat pump. (Gas injection can improve heat pump efficiency at very low temperatures by nearly 20%)
- can heat without running the engine. At last
- will be interesting to me to see winter electric range reports
- will the heat pump avoid an ERDTT mode?
- Andrew, when will that development you said was needed be done so the Volt can have a heat pump?
EV efficiency: 120mpge estimated
- Nice.
- While not as good as the i3, it's better than the i3 REX
Hybrid efficiency: not yet known
- Will make more use of EV at lower speeds.
Price: not yet known
- Prime 3 and Prime 4 models available, with some options

Unknowns ...
Price:
- Base (Prime 3) will supposedly be cheaper than the PiP, but hmm.
- (Of course, with the tax credit, it's not going to be much cheaper than the Volt.
EV performance:
- no 0-60, or even 0-30 yet
- given the curb weight and dual motors it shouldn't be as sluggish as the Energis, but it's still a heavy Prius so shouldn't expect anything special.
Hybrid efficiency:
- it is expected to be a bit better than the PiP (51/50) but it'd be by small amounts and with the extra range I think that maintaining efficiency (highway efficiency especially) would be good enough.

Yes, the range, yes, it's a Prius, but I think there are some goods things there:
- It's much better than the PiP: 12 extra miles x 200 days per year = 3600 miles per year. And that's ignoring the gasoline displaced by removal of the limitations.
- Efficiency: improved in EV mode, despite doubling the battery capacity. Burn less fuel to produce each kWh, and use less of a kWh to travel each mile.
- Heat pump: if it's included at the Prime's base price point, then it's a sign that we'll soon see one (or something better) included in every BEV and PHEV.
 
#56 ·
Well, they are slowly closing in on 2010 technology. Give them another decade?

About Toyota Reliability? Most low powered cars last a long time, or at least feel like it. Sort of like 'life without parole'.
 
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