Are the unions the obsticle to getting help from Washington?

[Roger881]

I can't figure out why in the living heck are we willing to bail out Wall Street to the tune of $700,000,000,000 but we can't help the US auto industry with $50 billion. My only thought is maybe taxpayers as well as the outgoing administration are not happy with the compensation arrangement the UAW has gotten out of the industry.

We all hear stories of people getting $70 an hour for working on the assembly line for doing maybe a $15.00 to $25.00 an hour job. We've also heard that some of these stories are exaggerated but if people think they're true, they're true as far as they're concerned. To GM's credit they've kept jobs in America when they could have easily built plants in Mexico and transported cars cheaply across the southern border into the US and made out like bandits. Has anyone seen polling data saying the American people would be willing to help the auto industry but not if unions are are going to get most of the money? Anti-union sentiment is the only reason I can see as to why over 60% of Americans don't want to help Detroit.

[umfug]

It's only a comedy anymore. Enjoy.

http://mtblog.vanityfair.com/online/...albailout.html

[Texas]

I can't figure out why in the living heck are we willing to bail out Wall Street to the tune of $700,000,000,000 but we can't help the US auto industry with $50 billion. My only thought is maybe taxpayers as well as the outgoing administration are not happy with the compensation arrangement the UAW has gotten out of the industry.

We all hear stories of people getting $70 an hour for working on the assembly line for doing maybe a $15.00 to $25.00 an hour job. We've also heard that some of these stories are exaggerated but if people think they're true, they're true as far as they're concerned. To GM's credit they've kept jobs in America when they could have easily built plants in Mexico and transported cars cheaply across the southern border into the US and made out like bandits. Has anyone seen polling data saying the American people would be willing to help the auto industry but not if unions are are going to get most of the money? Anti-union sentiment is the only reason I can see as to why over 60% of Americans don't want to help Detroit.

Yes, the unions has been demonized and the end may be near for the UAW. When you said that GM could have just moved to Mexico I laughed. They can't just do that BECAUSE of the unions have control over operations. That's my big beef with the unions. They have too much power.

Now carefully remember that Republicans and CEOs would love to crush the unions. Replace those fat cats with a very young and low paid work force. They do this because their main concern if for the wealth of the shareholder. The less money paid to the workers the more that goes to the owners. If it’s not carefully regulated you can say good bye to the middle class.

Outsourcing is just another way to take the power from the people. We have to be careful about this. Democracy was created just for this reason! It is supposed to give the power to the people to keep the rich from taking everything and giving nothing to the rest. Unfortunately, we all know it really doesn’t work that great here in America. The gap between the rich and the poor is growing, not shrinking. People will jump on that and say it’s the American way and capitalism at it’s best. However, if we look at world history and examine how kings and lords lived we know they lived quite well! A system should not be evaluated on how the leaders live (they all live well) but on how the poor and disadvantaged live. A great system would be one where people from top to bottom are fully motivated and working hard to leave the world a better place. I think we can all agree that such a system has not been perfected. Baby steps. We have a great foundation here in America. Let’s hope we keep improving it as we gain more knowledge about the world.

Now if we have universal health care, retirement savings that move with the worker (401K and IRA) and they have the ability to own their own workplace and can find jobs regardless of location (using the Internet for example) then people will not be forced into wage slavery as easily. I believe this how the world's work force will evolve. It's just a matter of Internet technology and time. A person will be able to find a job anywhere in the world and be able to receive compensation based on his or her reputation, skill set and how well the job was performed. Then, companies will be more free to build manufacturing facilities that take advantage of the resources and population demands in the area and not based solely on the cost of the workforce. That is my hope anyway. It is such a waste to manufacture goods in China only to have to ship them 1/2 way around the world just because it easy to exploit a developing nation. Until we switch to fully sustainable forms of energy, doing such journeys create a lot of pollution and waste.

[DaV8or]

The unions and the deals they extorted the big three into over the years have been the obstacle to them being competitive with foreign manufacturers in this market. This IMO has been a big factor in their demise and the inability to make a significant comeback.

The reason they are not getting help from Washington is more because of public opinion and the politicians. Most Americans seem to feel that the car companies deserve to fail because they don't really understand the car business or what it's like to carry the weight of union benefits around for decades. The Democrats are still miffed about them resisting the raising the CAFE standards even though the foreign manufactures did as well, and the Republicans think free market should kill any weak company except for banking, credit and insurance institutions for some lame reason.

Basically it's the same as it always has been here. When they stopped making electronics, cameras, furniture, appliances, machine tools, clothing, televisions, radios and almost everything else, nobody even flinched. Americans don't value manufacturing anymore and don't really care if it goes away as long as there are still plenty of good choices at the store. The ramifications of this attitude are going to be coming back to bitch slap us. Oh, and that arsenal of democracy? It moved to China, so watch out world.

[LampCord]

The UAW has made the big 3 uncompetitive. They have also been mismanaged but that's an easier fix. You can fire the CEO and upper management but you can't just opt out of a union contract.

That's why, as I've said from the start, the Dems were the ones pushing for the big 3 bailout. If the big 3 go down, the last powerful union in the country goes with them. Like a parasite dying with its host.

The big 3 can never be competitive as long as they are paying $2500 / car more in labor than the foreign competitors. Any bailout that doesn't allow for drastic changes in the UAW contract will be sending good money after bad.

[Guy Incognito]

Are the unions the obstacle to getting help from Washington?

No, the unions are not the obstacle; the obstacle is the Federal Reserve.
The Congress, Executive & Judicial branches have been bought by the owners of the Federal Reserve & no longer represent the people.
Think about this: Wall Street & the banks received the better part of a trillion dollars with no strings attached & no questions asked. Chrysler, Ford, & GM are asking for 1/28th of what Wall Street got, and they're getting the 3rd degree over it. In fact there's a chance that they won't get it. Wall Street & the bankers want it all for themselves!!!

The owners of the Federal Reserve are the crooks who intentionally caused the present financial crisis & need to be brought to justice.
The reason why people are'nt buying cars right now is not because of consumer confidence in the product or any of that other nonsense.
Its because the banks are'nt lending, in spite of having gotten the better part of a trillion dollars of taxpayer money for free for the very stated purpose of lending!!!

Think about this also: were unions a problem when the car makers were making money hand over fist on SUV's?
Not at all, in fact they were touted as some of the best & most productive workers in the world; they still are.

The problem is'nt unions or the free market system guys, its the Federal Reserve. Its got to go!!!

Good luck everyone.
_-=

[dbK]

No, the unions are not the obstacle; the obstacle is the Federal Reserve.
The Congress, Executive & Judicial branches have been bought by the owners of the Federal Reserve & no longer represent the people.
Think about this: Wall Street & the banks received the better part of a trillion dollars with no strings attached & no questions asked. Chrysler, Ford, & GM are asking for 1/28th of what Wall Street got, and they're getting the 3rd degree over it. In fact there's a chance that they won't get it. Wall Street & the bankers want it all for themselves!!!

The owners of the Federal Reserve are the crooks who intentionally caused the present financial crisis & need to be brought to justice.
The reason why people are'nt buying cars right now is not because of consumer confidence in the product or any of that other nonsense.
Its because the banks are'nt lending, in spite of having gotten the better part of a trillion dollars of taxpayer money for free for the very stated purpose of lending!!!

Think about this also: were unions a problem when the car makers were making money hand over fist on SUV's?
Not at all, in fact they were touted as some of the best & most productive workers in the world; they still are.

The problem is'nt unions or the free market system guys, its the Federal Reserve. Its got to go!!!

Good luck everyone.
_-=

Seriously?

Owners of the Federal Reserve?

That alone makes your post laughable.

[Rebane]

Um............actually the Federal Reserve IS a privately owned corporation........

[darthvader420]

Um............actually the Federal Reserve IS a privately owned corporation........

Yup! And they're currently printing off trillion after trillion for the banks on top of the bailouts congress approved. There's something very wrong when the government has zero control over its own money supply.

thread now in serious danger of derailment

[Guy Incognito]

Seriously? Owners of the Federal Reserve? That alone makes your post laughable.

Yeah, owners of the Federal Reserve
_-=

Um............actually the Federal Reserve IS a privately owned corporation........

Thank you Rebane

Yup! And they're currently printing off trillion after trillion for the banks on top of the bailouts congress approved.
There's something very wrong when the government has zero control over its own money supply.
thread now in serious danger of derailment

Thanks as well darth; agreed thread now in serious danger of derail.
My point, unions not obstacle to putting GM back in black & Federal Reserve must go. Back on track now.