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F3DM by BYD,

32K views 88 replies 16 participants last post by  saimneor 
#1 ·
I can't find much information on this one... How competitive will it be?
 
#2 ·
BYD F3DM approved for production and sale

By Kelly From:Gasgoo.com

Shanghai, November 26 (Gasgoo.com) BYD’s electric and hybrid model F3DM has been approved to be mass produced and go on sale, Beijing Times said, citing an announcement by China's Ministry of Industry and Information Technology (MIIT) - the state regulator of China's auto industry.

BYD says the F3DM will have a 109 km all-electric range with an auxiliary engine to allow operation in the hybrid mode. DM stands for Dual Mode, referring to the combination of an electric drive system and a hybrid system. The entire Dual Mode system was developed in-house by BYD, which is a major global manufacturer of batteries.

The powertrain combines a 1.0-liter gasoline engine with an electric motor generating 300 lb-feet of torque. The car can even be run exclusively on the electrical motor for up to 100km before it needs to be recharged, which BYD says makes the F3 DM a "zero-emission" vehicle. The cost of electric charging is also much cheaper than that of gasoline, BYD claimed.

According to MIIT, 14 domestic cities will have F3DM on sale first, including Shenzhen, Shanghai, Beijing, Nanjing, and some other cities.
 
#4 · (Edited)
F3dm

you can go to byd website to get the spec


electric car at 15Dec2008 (instead of 2010). The car do not need oil for 100KM (Volt can only run for 40KM); The car only cost 20K USD (Volt ~40K) ....how can GM compete??

By the way, Buffett invest 10% in it while GM is trying to get bailout from Congress. In terms of quality, Don't say anything China's product is crap, GM car's mould is also manufacturing by BYD, ....how can GM compete?

I am not opening a thread to argue, just show you some truth. Welcome for any insight....

----------------------------------------------------------------------

New BYD Hybrid Gets Jump in Electric Car Wars in China
December 01,2008



After five years of toiling in the alternative energy trenches, Biyadi (BYD) is set to introduce its new model, the F3DM plug-in hybrid car. With this launch, BYD will reach the hybrid market, will indeed originate it, two to three years earlier in China than the overseas auto giants. For the first time, a Chinese automaker is leading in auto technology and China’s electric car market may become the new battlefield of global car producers.


The Ministry of Industry and Information Technology recently added the F3DM into its new car catalog, and will allow its sale in 14 cities in China. BYD announced it will hit the market on December 15.


Wang Jianjun, assistant to general manager of BYD, said the price had not been finally decided upon, but the rumored 15,000 yuan was certainly too low. But, Wang said, the F3DM is very advanced in technology and will be highly competitive with any rivals in costs, since the company has stuck to a vertically integrated production chain.


He said the company hopes the central government will support the new car model through taxation, usage, and in other ways, just as European countries and the US have done with some of their own models. Wang said that every battery costs about 50,000 yuan before mass production, but that the price will drop to about 30,000 yuan when the production volume reaches 100,000.


Despite its leading position and the hope of favorable government policies, for BYD, there’s still a long way to go. Price and consumer demand are the biggest obstacles for acceptance of the F3DM.  

In the traditional auto area, BYD can always follow the leading companies in their market approach, but as the new leader in the new Chinese electric car market, BYD will need to define and explore the market on its own.

BYD has followed leading companies after entering the auto industry with its and its successful F3 and F0 series in the small and medium car area with high quality and low price. In the medium and high class auto market, which is not price sensitive, its F6 series has faced greater obstacles.   

Fierce Competition On New Energy Car

BYD General Manager Xia Zhibing has spoken several times over the past five years of the company’s detailed plans for production of a completely electric car. It has, in fact, been manufacturing traditional cars to finance such a vehicle. Along side of this, BYD has also become the world’s leading battery producer.


But at least for the moment, the electric car is still in the lab, with difficulties to overcome for mass production. The hybrid car is a transitional model before the new energy vehicle can be widely produced. Toyota’s Prius hybrid, going on 11 years old next month, faced serious doubts when it was first launched on the market, but it has now been accepted by the US mainstream and occupies 50% share of the US alternative energy car market.


Despite of the influence of the financial crisis and market decline, the auto giants have poured money into the development of the new energy cars in order to gain a favorable position in what is sure to be a competitive market after the crisis.


Electricity is becoming more and more important among development channels for new energy automobiles. According to a recent McKinsey research report, the electric car is the best new energy development. A.T. Kearney, a global management consulting firm, declared in the research report released during Guangzhou Auto Show that electric cars will be mainstream on the market by 2020 due to high oil price and supportive policies.


Toyota will move its focus back to an all-electric car this year. Toyota declared in August that it was developing a new type of small electric car, and would be put into production in 2010. A Prius hybrid car with rechargeable battery, originally to be launched in 2010, will be on the market in 2009.


GM’s withdrawal from the new energy car area in 1999 ceded to Toyota leadership in this area. However, due to the current crisis, GM’s development of its own electric car, the VOLT, is crucial for the company’s future. In June this year GM’s board approved the mass production of VOLT. The car is scheduled to be launched on the US market in 2010 and the Chinese market in 2011. BYD’s F3DM, on the market next month, has at least a two-year lead on it.


No wonder Warren Buffett bought into BYD.
 
#5 ·
Some of those specs are a bit off. The Volt goes 40 MILES not 40 km for example. But still what really intruiges me about BYD's claims is this:

Austin said the F6 DM has a ferrous battery developed by BYD that is safer and charges faster than the lithium-ion battery being considered by other automakers.
Anyone know more about this battery system vs. L-Ion?

and this...

He said the hybrid system in the vehicle costs around $6,000 as a standalone system.
Is it possible other manufacturer's could simply buy BYD's hybrid system and install it in their own cars? Since we get a $7,500 discount (if we make enough money to pay that in Fed taxes) it would essentially pay for the entire drive system.

Source:

http://www.byd.com/news/newsmore.asp?id=28&show=media
 
#6 · (Edited)
F3dm

Yeah! you are right, it's Miles, not Km. Volt can travel 40miles and BYD 100miles

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008....php?daylife=1


Below is the extraction from the link, it's LiFePO4, which is much cheaper than the normal Li-ion battery GM, Toyota is using...Besides, Normal Li-ion battery is too heavy, that's why we cannot just put many Li-ion battery in a car. It will be too heavy and expensive, that's also one of the reason why GM, Toyota giveup the electric-car plan around 8 years ago

From my understanding, Normal LiFePO4 battery have a problem for safety if it burns, but BYD already overcome it and go through the official road test China. Also, there is a problem for quick re-charge for LiFePO4 battery. Using a special recharger on the street, BYD battery can quickly recharge 50% in 10mins. This is a crucial step to make electric car popular. You don't expect people just use recharger 9 hours at home to run for 40miles everyday, There should be some facilities like gas/oil station on the street to re-charge your electric car. So far, I don't heard anything from GM,LG,A123 about this breakthrough.

Taxi in Shenzhen, BYD's home city, will migrate to BYD electric car in 1-2 years. You will see a real demonstration of the product at that time

I am not work for BYD, but I follow their news for a few years. I think BYD will export the hybrid system to other car manufactuers, but at least, not in the near future (at least 3 years). Also, I don't think GM will import the core electric system from a competitors.

One interesting point, BYD is startup as a battery company, manufacture battery for mobile phones, and now is the world leader in many mobile phone battery market (include Li-ion); LG Chemical, One of Volt's battery is provider. This korea battery company was beaten by BYD in the mobile phone battery market and now they are battle in the car battery market now.

BYD is professional in Li-ion battery for years, that's why they don't put it in a car. I am not presuade A123 can overcome the problem for Li-ion in 2 years and launch the car @ 2010. Looks like LG will provided the battery for 1st version of Volt in 2010 with manganese-oxide battery, which is not good as LiFePO4 battery...


For electic car, all companies are starting on the same point. No matter how big you are before...

------------------------------------------------------------------

According to BYD, its proprietary lithium-iron-phosphate batteries (LiFePO4), can last for 600,000 km before they need to be changed, giving the car around a 10 year life span. The car uses 12 kwh per 100 km and can travel over 300km per charge. BYD also claim, reports China Car Times, that their car can be recharged by 50% within 10 minutes; by using a home electrical outlet, the BYD F3DM can be fully recharged within 7 hours.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BYD hybrid run on Detroit Auto show in Jan2008...

http://jalopnik.com/344806/detroit-auto-show-world-exclusive-surreal-illegal-test-drive-of-chinese-hybrid-through-cobo-arena
 
#7 · (Edited)
ant

Quote:
He said the hybrid system in the vehicle costs around $6,000 as a standalone system.


From the latest news, BYD just buy a company manufacturing IGBT. BYD used to imported IGBT with cost of $1400 per vehicle. BYD chairman expect the cost of IGBT will be 10% of original imported cost. You can expect the system can reduce to $5000
 
#8 ·
Let's have some facts.

1. There is no pricing info on F3DM. F6DM will go for $30,000, and BYD is almost certainly losing money on this.

2. F6DM's battery capacity is 20 kw, vs Volt's 16 kw. When you consider the inefficiency of Chinese drivetrain(BYD has been car business for less than 5 years), there should be minimal real world difference between in F6DM and Volt. If there is, then BYD is overcharging and overdraining their batteries to extend range.
 
#9 ·
Facts for BYD

Yeah...let's have some facts.

1. There is no pricing info on F3DM. F6DM will go for $30,000, and BYD is almost certainly losing money on this.


I don't know where you get the info for the price 30K of F6DM

Currently, Retail price for F6 is around 10K-12K USD in China, include the hybrid will add additional 5-6K. I am not sure about the transportation cost from China to US, but I Don't think it will be 30K, unless the distribusion cost is so high.

I am sure BYD is not losing money if they selling @30K. The retail price range for BYD cars is range from 5K-20K in China (F3 price range 7.5K-10K; F6 price range 10K-20K). BYD auto is still making decent profit last year.

BYD is famous to be a cost-killer (The major reason I think why Buffett invest in BYD, not just because of electric car). As I mention above, they start as a mobile phone battery company, they now got the leading market share and OEM for big mobile phone brand (eg. Motorola, Nokia....). They win the cost cutting battle from many Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China companies while maintain the quality and become market leader. Instead of follow the automation strategy from Japanese, Korean, BYD build their own tools and create a labour-intensive method, which become more flexible and cost effective. It is reasonable to think they can maintain this strategy. I even not mention the economic of scale effect BYD auto getting for sales growth100% per year.


2. F6DM's battery capacity is 20 kw, vs Volt's 16 kw. When you consider the inefficiency of Chinese drivetrain(BYD has been car business for less than 5 years), there should be minimal real world difference between in F6DM and Volt. If there is, then BYD is overcharging and overdraining their batteries to extend range


I understand your concern about chinese product quality, but at least I don't think it apply to BYD. Although BYD is in the car business for only 5 years, but they are in the battery business for 13 years. As I mention before, They produce battery for Motorola, Nokia.....with lowest cost but same quality of other Japan/Korea name and become market leader now. I think you at least agree the competitiveness of mobile phone market is as tough as car market, their market life cycle is much shorter, much more competitiors and the concentration of Big market players, the requirement for the OEM provider is much harder, it is not fair to said BYD will create a in-competence battery. In 2010, BYD has launch electric car for 2 years in China, while Volt just first launch with only 10000 cars, who will be more understand about the battery.

I would rather concern about GM Volt's quality, because GM do not have the core technology (Battery) now. GM will become integrators, just like Dell rely on Intel. GM will be rely on A123/LG, but risk their brand names, who is more dangerous?

I may be wrong. Around a year ago, without the financial difficiulties, is GM pushing Volt so much? BYD is planning to launch Electric car 5 years ago, this is the reason why they move to car business. Who is more passionate? commitment?

We are seeing a industry revolution for electric car, just like, digital camera and digital watch revolute the industry. Beneficiers from traditional car industry really want the change....?
 
#10 ·
I don't know where you get the info for the price 30K of F6DM
F3DM launching with a pricetag of 150,000 yuan($21,819)

F3DM launching with a pricetag of 200,000 yuan($29,093)

Currently, Retail price for F6 is around 10K-12K USD in China, include the hybrid will add additional 5-6K.
F3 : 60,000 Yuan
F3DM : 150,000 Yuan(A 90,000 Yuan price increase)
F6 : 120,000 Yuan
F6DM : 200,000 Yuan(A 80,000 Yuan price increase)

I am not sure about the transportation cost from China to US, but I Don't think it will be 30K, unless the distribusion cost is so high.
US Distribution adds 20% to Chinese price minimum.

Instead of follow the automation strategy from Japanese, Korean, BYD build their own tools and create a labour-intensive method, which become more flexible and cost effective.
So what happens when Chinese labor cost goes up. It's going up like 30% a year, right?

I understand your concern about chinese product quality, but at least I don't think it apply to BYD.
BYD is China's most famous auto pirate, shamelessly xeroxing Toyota and GM vehicles.

BYD F0(Formerly F1) : An exact replica of Toyota Aygo
BYD F3 : A replica of Corolla with GM's Lacetti back
BYD F6 : At least this one doesn't look like an existing foreign model, even if it may still be a replica underneath the skin.
BYD F8 : A Mercedes copy.
 
#11 ·
Byd Auto

1. F3DM launching with a pricetag of 150,000 yuan($21,819)
F6DM launching with a pricetag of 200,000 yuan($29,093)

Official price will be announce when it launch at 15Dec2008. Let's wait for the official announcement

2. I am not sure the calculation you made is correct or not but the chairman mention the cost for one hybrid will be additional 50K Yuan.

3. "So what happens when Chinese labour cost goes up. It's going up like 30% a year, right?"

I mention this point, just want to emphasis they are innovative in cost cutting, doesn't mean they will always rely on low cost labour. You may be surprise the difference to setup a automation line compare to the BYD method, according to the chairman, it's 10-20% of the automative solutions. Even labour cost goes up, it still room for years. Besides, BYD build their own tools to competition with the automation line, this can show how their innovative in cost cutting.
As I mention before, They win from the "red-sea" of OEM in mobile phone battery industry, there are many Chinese competitors also rely on labour. How can BYD win if they are just normal players.

4. "I understand your concern about chinese product quality, but at least I don't think it apply to BYD"

"BYD is China's most famous auto pirate, shamelessly xeroxing Toyota and GM vehicles."

I guess you take the wrong point. I am saying BYD is a company emphasis on quality, they have experience to build high quality battery for 13 years for Nokia, Motorola and If their car quiality have major problem, how can their sales growth 100% per year.

Now, BYD is one of the first company officical release the hybrid car in the world. who can they pirate from? this new hybrid has change the attitude of chinese government a lot about electric car and BYD is going to build the standard for electric car in China. At least, BYD is constructive for the future of electic car...

By the way, Toyota do the same thing 30 years ago, who is the market leader now....business is business, at least they don't need bailout by government.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Isn't the BYD F6 a Honda Accord copy? But this is the world we live in. Japan has been doing it to the US for years, we invent a new technology, they copy it and make it cheaper and we are competed out of our own technology. I'm not just talking about automotive, they are notorious for doing it with our electronics. Now they are having it done to them by China. Like ant said, this is just good business. If GM could figure out a way to sell the same car 6 years in a row like Toyota does, they'd be smarter too. It keeps parts cheap and they don't have to retool as often, they don't need as much engineering capital etc. etc. BYD has pretty much completely cut out all design engineering costs. GM is designing a completely different car every year for every make for every brand (and everyone knows they have too many), and they wonder why they can't stay competitive.

I hate to play devil's advocate here but I gotta say, even at $30,000, these will be competitively priced. With $7,500 government subsidy, this car will be $22,500. The Volt will still be at least $30,000 even after the PHEV subsidy. Almost anyone can figure out a way to get financing and make payments for a $22,500 vehicle but $30+k and you are looking at a lot smaller market segment (especially these days). I think a lot of Americans would be willing to buy from an American company over a Chinese company they've never heard of, but who knows, the only real allegiance people pledge these days are to the all mighty dollar.

LiFePO4 does not heat up nearly as much requiring less energy to regulate their temperatures like the Volt's batteries will need, this is also one of the reasons why they have considerable resilience to losing battery life over the years (especially with BYD's experience in batteries I would imagine), taking into account, (on top of the technological advantage) the BYD battery has 20% more capacity, it's very likely they would be able to get the 62 miles AER with their batteries lasting as long or even longer than those provided by LG Chem only going 40 miles AER.

Especially with the 5 seat capacity over the Volt's 4, this car could be justified for nearly any family.
 
#15 ·
the BYD battery has 20% more capacity, it's very likely they would be able to get the 62 miles AER with their batteries lasting as long or even longer than those provided by LG Chem only going 40 miles AER.
Well, 20% longer range is 48 miles, not 62 miles. Basically, BYD is overcharging and overdraining its battery to achieve longer range, at the expense of battery life.

But that's considered OK in China anyway, since cars don't last that long and are not expected to stay on the road for 15 years. Since the average life span of a Chinese car is 6 years/120K miles, it is perfectly acceptable to have a battery life of 6 years/120K miles.
 
#13 ·
Byd F3dm

http://www.yangtse.com/qcpd/qcsj/200812/t20081205_547084.htm

Don't know how many of you can read chinese, above is the link for public test drive by media. You can see some photos ( there are 3 pages)

BYD F6 is target to competite with Toyota camry in China, with almost the same equipment, they are selling almost 50% of the price.


Want to add more colour for the electric car.....

Electric car will be revolute the industry more than just because of environmental friendly, fuel cost...


You may already know. In a electric car, you can easily have the 4wheel system, high touque....because it is more in the electronic side than mechanical side, it is more on programming....

You can imagine the electric car market will be more like mobile phone/PC market now. You can eaily change the outlook, add more functions...product life cycle will be shorter, more different functions will be available, more computer controlled, IT products will be added....These all are the strength of BYD, they can easily integrate the IT technology from mobile phone in a electric car....LCD display, speakerphone, mini-motors....

You can see how they demonstrate in next year Berkshire Hathaway's annual shareholder meeting. There will be 50 electric car there

http://58.61.29.82/eng/news/content/2008-10/14/content_3306338.htm
 
#21 ·
I really don't see BYD selling a lot of vehicles in the US. I don't know how motivated they are to jump into the drama of the US automotive market any time soon. It takes a lot of time to earn the trust of Americans when they plunk down that kind of money.

If they're batteries are really as good as they say, and LiFePO4 is really that much better, A123 will have it ready for the next gen Volt which will hopefully be available around the same time as these if they ever have a chance to make it the US. If Obama is as serious as he says he is about developing PHEV and switching the White House fleet completely to PHEV as well as those of other government agencies, I would imagine he'll find a way to keep America competitive on this battery front so we're not upstaged by the Chinese, especially seeings how everyone knows the auto industry won't be profitable on their for the next few years even in the best circumstances and so basically with the car czar holding their nuts in a vice, and the Dems in charge for the forseeable future, this kind of technology will be on the forefront of everyone's minds.
 
#22 ·
I really don't see BYD selling a lot of vehicles in the US.
BYD cars themselves are uncompetitive by US standards and you have Toyota and Mercedes lawyers waiting at the port with a court order to seize "pirated" BYD cars.

BYD's PHEV drive system maybe competitive, but vehicle engineering itself is not.(Mostly pirated Toyotas with quality and safety problems) BYD needs to acquire something like Volvo or Saab and use their PHEV system in them to be competitive.
 
#23 ·
Byd F3dm

"BYD's PHEV drive system maybe competitive"

HaHa, Thanks for your appreciation for BYD's PHEV drive system.

"BYD cars themselves are uncompetitive by US standards and you have Toyota and Mercedes lawyers waiting at the port with a court order to seize "pirated" BYD cars."

Please see the below link, looks like the Governor of Oreagon is thinking different from you do....They are pushing BYD to export to US....

http://www.gasgoo.com/auto-news/1008484/Governor-lobbies-to-bring-BYD-hybrid-car-to-Oregon.html

I am not surprise Volt will be market leader in US market, I think Americans will buy Volt....but how about export market, The car market in the rest of the world....are they follow US standard? I don't think GM can only rely on the US market, so somehow Volt need to competite with BYD outside US.....no more subsidies, just competite on quality/price

and What do you mean by competitive/not-competitive?...Volvo or Saab are competitive?....Remember, GM/BYD is a car company, profit is the reason for it to survive.....who has more chance to last for next 2-3 years??....
 
#24 ·
HaHa, Thanks for your appreciation for BYD's PHEV drive system.
I have no idea, but I do have my doubts.

"Please see the below link, looks like the Governor of Oreagon is thinking different from you do....They are pushing BYD to export to US....
Well, I have hard time telling F0 and Aygo apart, ditto with F3 and old Corolla.

The car market in the rest of the world....are they follow US standard?
GM cars are engineered to meet US and Euro standards. Volt is no exception.
 
#26 ·
Byd F3dm

"That's an idea, Volvo and Saab are practically being given away, but I don't see why they don't strike a deal with Ford or Chrysler (or GM for that matter) to supply PHEV batteries and/or drive train technology. There's probably more than a few issues to work out with whether they would be built (China or US) but I'm sure it's nothing that couldn't be worked out."

I can have a very simple answer for this question. Because BYD (probably all other factories in China/Taiwan) learn that, without his own brand, there is no pricing power, BYD learn it very hard in mobile phone manufacturing market. For eg. A cell phone with retail price 200-300 USD, Total manfacturing cost is just 40-50 USD, Battery itself is just 2-3USD, but the brand owner still push you to make it 20% cost lower everyyear, and if they can't make it, they will loss the deal. Mobile phone market is highly concentrate by those big brand, they have no choice, but follow. Innovate some ways to save the cost to survive, and finally win the battle and become market leader. That's why although BYD is market leader in mobile phone battery, but the company size is still small....

Now, they go from the "Red Sea" to "Blue Ocean"(car market), they will not follow the old ways, they want to have pricing power, even though export the hybrid system can make it grow very fast, they choice a hard way...isn't it admirable?

BYD chairman also admit they turn down many big brands request to export the HYBRID system to other brand. It will be export one day, but not in near future
 
#31 · (Edited)
Byd F3dm

News from CNBC

http://www.cnbc.com/id/28236421


News from Bloomberg

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=a4pB1zdYV_SU&refer=asia


To be honest, the price (149.8K Yuen, 22K USD) is a bit higher than our estimate, because BYD always surprise us for the low price. But it still within the market estimate 100K-150K Yuen.

News analyze that the price is set for the government, as the government is the first round buyers for the car. BYD also use this price to push the government to subsidy the consumers....

In the End, I am still confident BYD will soon lower their price 30% in a few months, that's what they do for F3,F6....
 
#32 ·
To be honest, the price (149.8K Yuen, 22K USD) is a bit higher than our estimate, because BYD always surprise us for the low price. But it still within the market estimate 100K-150K Yuen.
Why would be surprised? BYD always said 150K Yuan for F3DM and 200K Yuan for F6DM.

In the End, I am still confident BYD will soon lower their price 30% in a few months, that's what they do for F3,F6....
Not this one, because those battery pack costs arms and babies even for BYD the battery maker....

Maybe this is the reason why LG doesn't believe in plug-in hybrid, at least not 40 mile or greater range. LG just signed a contract for the second-phase of automotive battery R&D contract with Korean government(First phase resulted in Lithium Polymer pack used in Hyundai Blue-Drive system), which calls for a 10 mile plug-in range by 2010 and a 20 million plug-in range by 2013. Why such a short-range? Because the contract mandates next-gen plug-in packs to maintain the size and cost of current Blue-Drive battery pack.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Byd F3dm

"Why would be surprised? BYD always said 150K Yuan for F3DM and 200K Yuan for F6DM."

I am surprise because BYD have track record to surpirse the market, officical price lower than market estimate.

"Not this one, because those battery pack costs arms and babies even for BYD the battery maker...."

It really a matter of how you look at cost. From my understanding, BYD has just done some vertical integration of supplier (They buy a IGBT firm few weeks ago), which at least push the cost 2K USD more...

In the ceremony, even chairman admit the price is a bit high and mention the price will be much lower after government subsidies....Let's wait and see any government policy follow up...During the ceremony, BYD have signup many aggrement with government, may be it is a kind of government purchases....

One thing worth to mention, BYD car is not value by China central governement before, as BYD is not state-own. But the release of F3DM has change the attitude of China governement. It is widely believed that there will be policy support by governement
 
#34 ·
"Why would be surprised? BYD always said 150K Yuan for F3DM and 200K Yuan for F6DM."

I am surprise because BYD have track record to surpirse the market, officical price lower than market estimate.
150K Yuan for F3DM wasn't a market estimate; the price came straight from the mouth of BYD president months ago.

It really a matter of how you look at cost. From my understanding, BYD has just done some vertical integration of supplier (They buy a IGBT firm few weeks ago), which at least push the cost 2K USD more...
Vertical integration means lower cost, not higher cost.

even chairman admit the price is a bit high and mention the price will be much lower after government subsidies....Let's wait and see any government policy follow up...
We need to compare the prices BEFORE subsidy.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Here's a good article about it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7779261.stm

I want to see a video of these on youtube. It's hillarious how BYD burns GM by vowing to be the world's biggest automaker by 2025 and says they can do it because compared to building high tech devices, building cars is easy. That's funny.

Oh the irony that a company created the same year as the EV1 and didn't start building cars until the same year the last EV1 was taken off the road has beat GM to EREV vehicles by two full years. And EREVs that offer 50+% more AER, seats 5 instead of 4, and do it all for nearly half the price of GM's announced EREV. While at the same time, GM might be declaring bankruptcy any day and probably would've by now if not for holding out hope that George Bush will spot them some cash to keep the lights on for a few more months.

But I digress. The real question is whether these batteries last 150,000 miles.

In any case, Lyle really should post this on the home page as the fact that a company is finally actually putting EREVs on the street is way more newsworthy than the article posted on Dec 13th about Mercedes announcing plans that might or might not materialize halfway through the next Presidential term.
 
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