what's wrong with my math?

[jeffhre]

It's not your math that is bad , it's the way they come up with the 5kWh- 7kWh number . They calculate the energy that is lost during the conversion of a barrel of oil into gasoline . Refining and trucking gasoline does require energy , but their math is misleading .

That's the great thing about math - it won't vary, just because human minds are mislead.

[dancergene]

thank you all for the replies. think i got it now, and i also have a good size solar array which produces most of my energy needs.

[Electrons]

Despite all the calculations, kWh, kW, losses, efficiency etc. I say the Volt is an awesome car to drive.

The AWE factor has no MPG equivalent.

[jeffhre]

Basically, overall it's generally calculated that an efficient hybrid is better than a plug-in charged using typical US electricity. However, there are significant externalities (effects not included in well-to-wheel calculations) related to pollution and resource security so personally I'd side with the plug.

If it is so concluded based on current calculations, then I would respectfully disagree.

[Sharkonwheels]

I find it hard to believe that it only takes 6-7kWh/g well-to-wheel.

1) You have to pump it out of the ground (or is this oil-pressure driven?)
2) Move it somewhere to load
3) load it
4) tanker it across the ocean(s) <Using middle-east to US as example> which consumes THOUSANDS of gallons of bunker
5) Pump it into storage
6) move it around refinery and refine it
7) pumpit it into distribution
8) load it into tanker trucks
9) drive it around
10) put it in the ground tanks
11) pump it yet AGAIN into a vehicle

Any of you ever been in the cruise/shipping/freighter industry know that a large ocean vessel can EASILY consume 10K gallons/wk in fuel without even trying! Average 98-120K ton displacement cruise ships can easily roll through 10K gallons of bunker fuel in a 7-day itinerary. Up the number of sea days in that week, and you can easily see 12-15K gallons on a 7-dat itinerary.

Atlantic crossing alone is easily 7-10 days, and when you talk about displacement tonnage of your average supertanker, the volume is immense, ie, given same displacement, a tanker is QUITE a bit more laden when full of oil, so the fuel consumption would be through the roof, compared to a similar displacement cruise ship.

Thoughts?

[VikAiRious]

But you still have to pay $4.50 a gallon gross per gallon, so if a Prius gets 50 miles for a gallon at $4.50 and a Volt (At the national average of 12 cents a kWh for 12.3 a full charge) would cost $1.48 for 35 EPA miles, so about $2.13 for the same 50 miles, if 35 miles on EV, and 15 ICE split, would cost around $3.40 for 50 miles.

And where the electricity is cheaper, like mine at 3.7434 cents off peak when I charge up, all EV for 50 miles would cost all of 55.6 cents. If 35/15 split with ICE, my costs would be around $2.48 for the 50 miles.

And since I really average 5+ more miles than the 35 EPA rated miles per charge, and over 80% EV, my real costs are less that these with ICE figures.

[Sharkonwheels]

VoltMath is wonderful.

Right now, my EER is up to 42mi, and still climbing. Slowly, because I do a little freeway travel (10 of ~38mi per day are 65MPH) so it takes a bit longer.

If I were to avoid the 10mi on the highway, I can only IMAGINE what my EER would be!!!
Probably 45-48 easily!

[ckk]

here in central Oklahoma, I haven't gotten around to it yet but I think I can go to our local electric company's web site (OG&E) and tell them that I want X percentage of our house's electric to come specifically from wind power. will check that out soon when I get a chance, and then when I charge my Volt at home I'll know it's all wind energy...

[jeffhre]

I find it hard to believe that it only takes 6-7kWh/g well-to-wheel.

From my reading it is ~6kWh just to push it from one end of the refinery to the other. Although that is all of the energy not just electricity. And newer refineries that are more efficient can be ~4 - 5kWh for the same process.

[Mathew Hennessy]

I just go by cents per mile. While I haven't gotten the first power bill for my new house (with a new power company), historically I was getting about 4 cents per mile in electricity with all utility taxes and charges included when charging at home, and closer to 0.8 cents per mile while charging publically at work ($25/6 months, and ~500mi per month).

Once I get the power bill for my new house, hopefully it'll have a 13mo average, from which to start contemplating a grid-tie solar w/battery backup system's requirements.