"Electric lemons" - article on "American Thinker" regarding why electric cars are bad
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Thread: "Electric lemons" - article on "American Thinker" regarding why electric cars are bad

  1. #1
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    Default "Electric lemons" - article on "American Thinker" regarding why electric cars are bad

    http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...ic_lemons.html

    I know there are some libertarians on here - I'd especially like to know what you think of this.

    I think, personally, it's hogwash. Yes, electric vehicles depreciate farther after 3 years, but (when I finally get one) I plan on keeping my 2016 for far longer than three years. What's also interesting to me is he talks a lot about how much it will be to replace the cost of the batteries in these cars, but if my google-fu is correct, replacing a 2001 battery in a Prius is around $3,000 as of 2012. Are Volt (and Leaf) batteries so drastically different, they'd cost astronomically more?

    I'm curious to hear y'alls take on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrienBear View Post
    http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...ic_lemons.html

    I know there are some libertarians on here - I'd especially like to know what you think of this.

    I think, personally, it's hogwash. Yes, electric vehicles depreciate farther after 3 years, but (when I finally get one) I plan on keeping my 2016 for far longer than three years. What's also interesting to me is he talks a lot about how much it will be to replace the cost of the batteries in these cars, but if my google-fu is correct, replacing a 2001 battery in a Prius is around $3,000 as of 2012. Are Volt (and Leaf) batteries so drastically different, they'd cost astronomically more?

    I'm curious to hear y'alls take on it.
    Volt and Leaf batteries are much larger (in terms of capacity even more than size,) so it'd make sense if they cost more. However, no one is likely to pay the $3k dealer price for a Prius battery. You can get a result one for more like a thousand, our have yours rebuilt for less than that, depending on what is wrong with it.

    GM had always listed the first generation Volt pack for just under $3k (with core replacement and requiring GM consultation before ordering,) and Nissan is now offering Leaf batteries for $6k. Both of these are probably either at cost or slightly subsidized, but they ate real offices that will probably not change much in the future.
    Walter
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    Sounds like a tea party rant. I wonder if the authors' mortgage subsidy is as onorous.
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    This is a depreciation article that fails to address the $7500 tax credit. Take away the $7500 from the MSRP and calculate depreciation from there. In the volt, you'll find that the 3 year residual is comperable to other ICE vechicles (BMW 328i).

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    There's certainly no agenda in that article. Or understanding of the Constitution for that matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taser54 View Post
    This is a depreciation article that fails to address the $7500 tax credit. Take away the $7500 from the MSRP and calculate depreciation from there. In the volt, you'll find that the 3 year residual is comperable to other ICE vechicles (BMW 328i).
    I didn't check into their study, but this is a mistake that is commonly made - ironically by the same people who complain about the rebate money itself (as in this article.)

    Overall, it is an anti-Obama rant vaguely tied to a misleadingly done study of a metric that isn't terribly relevant to me. Pretty much a waste of time IMHO.
    Walter
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    American Thinker is an online wingnut publication that's more or less the poor man's WND or Newsmax.

    They've published articles by such conservative luminaries as Noel Sheppard (NewsBusters) and Pamela Geller and such climate experts as S. Fred Singer and Christopher Monckton, as well as an interview with (and hagiography of) white nationalist Jared Taylor.

    The magazine, of course, is chock-full of right-wing conspiracy theories, woo, and pseudoscience. On the conspiracy side, they promote birtherism, "creeping sharia," red-baiting, and still occasionally prattle on about Vince Foster. On the science side, they concentrate on creationism and global warming denialism.

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    "For years, the Obama administration has pumped billions into the development and subsidy of electric vehicles, but e-cars show little sign of catching on." Really ??? ... Billions??? Is the author referring to the $7500 tax CREDIT (not rebate)? If so, that is money the the tax payer pays himself with his own money, not someone else's tax money. Just rough numbers: 70,000 sales, each allowing $7500 in tax CREDIT in the United States comes to $525,000,000 ($525 Million). I stopped thinking that this article would have meaningful information after the first sentence.

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    This is why I posted this here!! I wanted to get the responses from you guys and make sure I wasn't off somewhere.

    Not gonna lie, I'm a complete "libtard" myself, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me that thought that none of this made any sense.

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    Also, batteries have been shown to last much longer than expected, at least in Tesla (Leaf had some issues with earlier models in some climates). http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-car-over-time

    And the Tesla Model S is showing 92% remaining after 100k miles. My guess is the battery should last life of vehicle (150 or 200k miles or however long it lasts). Obviously, some older low mileage vehicles could also have problems since Lithium Ion batteries have some age related degradation. GM is opening up the range with the new Volt (nearly 80% usable?), another sign they expect the battery to perform better than their overly pessimistic figures with the original Volts ~60% usable state of charge. They have to warranty those batteries for a long time, so they wanted to make sure they weren't replacing them under warranty.

    So if you consider Volt a $25 to $30k car new, having a retail price (not auction price which is what you get for trade) of $15-18k isn't so bad after 3 years. To be fair, the Nissan Juke I bought for 22k new had no issue getting 15k for trade out of it 4 years later, which is a much better resale value, but I look at it as an opportunity to get someone in an electric vehicle instead of a much more expensive new gasoline car which gets worse MPG.

    Eric
    Last edited by viking79; 1 Week Ago at 02:45 PM.

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