OnStar cell network

[Rampage_Rick]

Is it true that the latest OnStar modules are still CDMA-based? From what I've read, only the 9th generation OnStar hardware is RemoteLink capable, but it's still supposed to run over CDMA.

I'm wondering if this has to do with a partnership with Verizon? OnStar connects via Verizon in the US, and Bell Mobility in Canada. Bell (and their strategic partner Telus) has completed a massive country-wide transition from CDMA (1xRTT) to GSM (HSDPA) and all their new phones are GSM-based. There doesn't seem to be a large incentive for them to expand their existing CDMA network when they've actually been phasing out CDMA since 2009.

Due to the terrain in BC, highway cell coverage is quite spotty even on major routes, like Highway 3. There is an agreement in place with Telus (which has reciprocity with Bell) for a massive expansion of cellular coverage along major highways by 2016. I'm guessing they're not going to install any "legacy" CDMA hardware and this expansion will be GSM only. The expansion should cover over 1000 more miles of highway, but it'll do OnStar users a fat lot of good. Here's the actual agreement: http://www.cio.gov.bc.ca/local/cio/s...ships/cbca.pdf

Verizon seems to be the only large carrier holding out with CDMA. Virtually the rest of the world uses GSM. Maybe GM should contemplate GSM for OnStar Generation X...

[joebert]

Wildly off topic... I was in Chilliwack back in 2004. You live in a beautiful town. Hope to get back up there someday.

[Rampage_Rick]

I'll let you know where all the best Level 2 EVSEs are at...

[DonC]

Remote Link and the wireless technology used to connect the car to the OnStar network are different issues entirely. You could run Remote Link over CDMA or GSM or LTE, and you could run it over different types of networks so long as you had the right software and radios. For example you can get phones now that will work on Verizon's CDMA network and on any GSM network with a SIM.

Don't agree that Verizon is holding out for CDMA or that the rest of the world is using GSM. Just not true. You can find CDMA carriers in over 40 countries, including Japan, Australia, and so forth. In any event, the future seemingly belongs to LTE. It is very simple, very fast, very efficient with bandwidth, and there are no licensing fees (equipment will be cheaper). So far voice over LTE is not being deployed but that's just a matter of time. However, one problem is that while you turn in your phone every two years you keep your car for a lot longer. Updating cars to keep up with wireless technology is going to be difficult.

[mws1047]

Don't agree that Verizon is holding out for CDMA or that the rest of the world is using GSM. Just not true. You can find CDMA carriers in over 40 countries, including Japan, Australia, and so forth.

Just a small point of not much consequence, CDMA was killed off in Australia 4 1/2 years ago - replaced by 3G. LTE is now being widely deployed by the two largest carriers.

However, very sad that the Holden Volt as a technology and life style leader misses out on OnStar capability. I'm surprised that Holden did not architect an integrated on network solution to do the same. Holden has other premium models as well, and sooner or later it has to happen. Which is an issue I should take up with the generous Holden folks next time I meet with them.

You raise an interesting issue about it's hard to have a car keep up with the innovations in wireless technology. Even Apple has the same problem:

"the ACCC (Ed: Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) has taken a $2.25m bite out of Apple for “misleading advertising in relation to the promotion of its ‘iPad with Wifi + 4G’ which has been found to have contravened the Australian Consumer Law”. iPad 3 is/was not 4G compatible with the 4G available in Australia.

Nevertheless, it is exactly this sort of services and network integration that I think some of us are looking for and we look to the the Volt as the pathfinder.


- Malcolm

[DonC]

Thanks for clarifying that Australia has dumped CDMA. I didn't know that. I used to have a reason to know about this stuff but those days are over. India has picked it up though, right?

I'd hope that the next generation of OnStar equipment supports LTE. The problem though is that the technology is a moving target. Easier to do with a cell phone that turns over every two years. Plus with OnStar people will want the service everywhere, which limits the ability to have the latest and greatest. The last place CDMA will probably be used is in Three Forks Montana, but that's where people will want emergency service. On the other, GM knows what carrier it will be using, which makes the process simpler. As a user you don't have the option of switching your OnStar carrier.

The big deal is that GM is taking OnStar global. When doing this it will need its hardware to support multiple technologies and have multiple radios. At this point it's possible, and much better than the alternative which is to have different hardware for different parts of the world.

[Fulgerite]

I believe that OnStar is using a CDMA radio on Verizon's network in the USA. The fact that OnStar has only implemented CDMA radios is the main reason OnStar can't work in other countries like Australia and Europe.

As long as OnStar clings to the dying CDMA technology customers are likely to see reduced performance over time as the providers phase out CDMA technology.

If OnStar had picked GSM over CDMA... They could have have implemented worldwide coverage more easily. The best option would be to use one of the newer chipsets that supports GSM + LTE.

[DonC]

I think you're confusing the causation. I don't think GM picked CDMA and that limited OnStar to NA, I think GM targeted NA and then picked CDMA. Keep in mind that OnStar originally used the analog network. So it has already made one transition from one technology to another. Also keep in mind that when OnStar would have been planning for the mandated end of the analog equipment and this transition ATT wasn't using wasn't GSM, it was using TDMA. Choosing GSM under that level of uncertainty would have been risky.

The other issue is that you need a good partner. No idea but if ATT isn't a great partner then your idea of GSM-LTE is a non-starter. It's the only GSM operator with the national coverage you need.

The two big differences now are that GM is more centralized and focused on making Chevy and Cadillac world brands, which means less regional autonomy, and that it wants to roll out OnStar globally. The choice of CDMA or GSM won't affect this very much. It's easy enough to support either or even both. I'd think the bigger issue would be the radios, and even that isn't a huge issue given you have phones that support CDMA, GSM, and LTE on a number of frequencies.

[Rampage_Rick]

I've just been looking at this subject again because our local provider Telus has just switched on a bunch more GSM towers along major routes. I found a news article indicating that GM is introducing GSM-based OnStar modules for vehicles in Mexico:

http://pvangels.com/news-mexico/2920...mexico-in-2013
http://www.automotiveit.com/onstar-p...news/id-007249

If the CDMA network in Canada was switched off in say 5 years, one would hope that GM would offer to replace the OnStar module with one that's GSM-capable (for a nominal fee of course) When the analog cell network was switched off, vehicles equipped with Generation 5 (analog) modules were offered an upgrade to Generation 6 (digital CDMA) with the purchase of a 3-year OnStar contract.

If anyone in BC is wondering where the new towers are, here are the ones I'm aware of thus far:

Highway 1 - Malakwa and 3 Valley Gap (between Sicamous and Revelstoke)
Highway 3 - Copper Mountain (between Manning Park and Princeton)
Highway 3A - Willow Point (between Nelson and Balfour)
Highway 24 & 97 - Lone Butte to Bridge Lake and Lac la Hache to 141 Mile House

[scottf200]

I'm wondering if this has to do with a partnership with Verizon?

Verizon obviously does LTE now as well. I have it on my Verizon Moto phone.

Verizon Gives Motorola LTE Razrs Their GSM Wings
http://www.pcworld.com/article/25823...gsm_wings.html