Leaving the car on - accidentally

[CarZin]

I believe GM has gone over this thoroughly, and as implemented, it is very well thought out.

Do you know something you aren't saying? I don't see anything that is obviously 'very well' thought out. It seems the reverse. They are treating the car exactly like every other gas burning car, in which is obviously is not. The lack of cues are enough to allow a percentage of people in certain circumstances to not know the car is still on. It goes even further than the links above with Push Button issues, as this car is virtually silent when turned on.

[CorsaTurboC]

Somebody on this forum must own something other than a Volt with push button start. I looked at the Buick GS, Mazda 6, (but chose the Volt!) and they have them. Heck, Kias brag about having them. How do other GM push start and other manufacturers deal with this?

[cnicholson]

Somebody on this forum must own something other than a Volt with push button start. I looked at the Buick GS, Mazda 6, (but chose the Volt!) and they have them. Heck, Kias brag about having them. How do other GM push start and other manufacturers deal with this?

Easy: Driver stops car and prepares to leave. He hears/feels the engine running, and realizes that he needs to do something about it.

The Volt is not a difference in degree, it is a difference in kind. It will be many many years before regular people stop reasonably relying on the notion that they can directly perceive that a car is "on" (via their own senses, not from instrumentation). To ignore this reality is an error in judgment. Frankly, even the concept of an "on mode" is not intuitive to mere mortals in the context of an electric car that appear to wake up and function (apart from moving) well before the user takes any action to "turn it on."

For bonus points, try explaining to the "man on the street" how "remote start" works in the Volt and how you still need to turn the car "on" before driving away even though the car if very much "on" (in the normal understanding of that word) when you jump in.

Anyway, I think this is a case of: the dumb user is always right, so make the thing idiot proof. This is especially true in use cases where the car's default behavior seems totally at odds with the user's highly-probable intent (stop car, put in Park, apply break, plug in, walk away with RFID key in pocket, no other people in car (it knows from occupancy sensors)).

[CarZin]

I still think my idea of a screen prompt is the way to go. I think it is pretty much failproof. The main issue here should be safety, not the potential preservation of your electric range. The car should be allowed to deplete until the point of the engine turning on, and if no one pushed the 'turn the engine on' button, it powers off. And after that button is pushed, someone should have to push it again at certain intervals. And if the car was already on engine power, and put in park (we all know how it can go on and off generator), same message should be displayed. And if this ruffles anyones feathers, create an overrride in the setup. But it should be a standard feature. Period.

[WopOnTour]

How about a boxing glove that comes out of the A-pillar if you attempt to exit the car with it "ON"

Seriously, there are DOT and NHTSA requirements for such warniing and chimes that all manufacturers must adhere to. They cant always make them as user intuative as they might like. (let alone "customizable" lol) These requirements have perhaps become a bit antiquted as the technology moves forward.
In fact, there are regulatory committes working on "push-button" IGN requirements and standards as we speak.
(a bit of "fallout" from the Toyota "run-away" issue a couple years back)

If you feel so strongly about it "get involved" by contacting these regulatory agencies (i.e. file a NHTSA report at safercar.gov) or write your Congressman.

WOT

PS> On a similar subject, guess you can't please everyone http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread....n-door-is-open

[CorsaTurboC]

Easy: Driver stops car and prepares to leave. He hears/feels the engine running, and realizes that he needs to do something about it.

<<<SNIP>>>

MANY years ago I worked at a grocery store. One of my duties was carriage round up. I can't begin to tell you how many owners I had to track down who left their engines running with and without the doors locked. I got real good with a coat hanger! One lady called the police and accused me of being a thief as I got so good at popping lock buttons.
The sound of a running engine has no chance against a person on a mission.

[CarZin]

Seriously, there are DOT and NHTSA requirements for such warniing and chimes that all manufacturers must adhere to. They cant always make them as user intuative as they might like. (let alone "customizable" lol) These requirements have perhaps become a bit antiquted as the technology moves forward.

Not buying that for this case. It seems like some manufacturer comes up with a new 'safety' feature every year that I highly doubt regulators are on top of. Collision avoidance, where a car slams on the brakes when someone has failed to stop. And now the Volt has lane departure and collision alerts. I simply don't believe shutting a car off when it is in park and unattended is being prevented by regulatory bodies.

If a car, like a Mercedes, can slam on the brakes for a driver while being driven at highway speeds, there is no reason you can't shut a car off when its in park and unattended.

On top of it, I resent someone telling me that I have to talk to my legislators to fix a safety issue. I shouldnt have to get government involved. GM should recognize the problem, talk to the regulators if need be, and present a solution.

The Volt is an awesome car. It is not without flaws. Engineers didnt think about everything.

[DonC]

Not buying that for this case.

So he's either lying or ignorant? Obviously neither is true. Keep in mind that no car manufacturer wants to spend tons of time on interpreting regulations. In the case of the "Hold" mode they eventually got it the way we want it.

[CarZin]

Neither. I think he is making generalizations. He obviously knows his stuff. In this case, he hasn't proven it. But to compare this to a door chime that someone doesnt want to hear is just silly, which makes me think he doesnt think this is a real concern.

If he can say with authority he has been in a meeting where this issue was discussed and regulatory concerns stopped it, then I'll obviously believe him.

I think the issue is that GM doesnt know how often its happening, because I don't think its something you can easily determine through onstar and people aren't generally going to report it. But I've seen enough threads on this issue, and according to the nonscientific poll, a good percentage do it. The right circumstances will eventually lead to a bad outcome when this happens. Since this is a software fix, and not a hardware fix, this should be low on the difficulty scale to accomodate.

[Carl S]

How about a boxing glove that comes out of the A-pillar if you attempt to exit the car with it "ON"

Seriously, there are DOT and NHTSA requirements for such warniing and chimes that all manufacturers must adhere to. They cant always make them as user intuative as they might like. (let alone "customizable" lol) These requirements have perhaps become a bit antiquted as the technology moves forward.
In fact, there are regulatory committes working on "push-button" IGN requirements and standards as we speak.
(a bit of "fallout" from the Toyota "run-away" issue a couple years back)

If you feel so strongly about it "get involved" by contacting these regulatory agencies (i.e. file a NHTSA report at safercar.gov) or write your Congressman.

WOT

PS> On a similar subject, guess you can't please everyone http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread....n-door-is-open

Originally posted by MichaelM:

"On the other hand... I have recently pulled into my very own driveway, finished a cell phone conversation (radio etc. all off from the main knob, so center screen is darkish), and attempted to leave the Volt only to hear: ding, ding, ding... what the? Oops. Volt left on. But so darn quiet I forgot to turn it "off." Red face ensues, guilty as charged, Mr. Dinger. Darn dinger probably saved my 12V battery, too."

Unless you park in a very noisy place, that never ending CHIME CHIME CHIME is all it takes for the majority of people to stop and see why the car is chiming. For someone in a great hurry, a simple screen prompt won't be enough.

Modern cars unlock and lock themselves just by walking up to and away from them. Could automatic ignition be next?

This does make me wonder if there is a similar poll on the Nissan Leaf forum?

Also, I believe the Tesla Model S automatically powers on the car when you get in the driver's seat and powers off the car when you leave (someone can correct me if I'm wrong).