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How many of you have had your Volt accidentally left on?

  • Yes, I have accidentally left the car powered on.

    Votes: 82 25.7%
  • Yes, Someone else has accidentally left my car powered on.

    Votes: 11 3.4%
  • No. This hasn't happened to me.

    Votes: 226 70.8%

Leaving the car on - accidentally

69K views 179 replies 80 participants last post by  IERP 
#1 ·
All-

This has not yet happened to me, but to one of my more scatterbrained coworkers with a Volt. They came to work, in a rush, got out of the car, plugged in - but never shut the car off. The car ran down the battery (which was already low at the time) and the motor kicked on and was idling when they came outside after the workday.

My question is, what if this happened at home, in an enclosed garage. I realize there are several alarms this person ignored:

1) Audible alarm - opening the door to get out without the car being off
2) Visual alarm - daytime running lamps on

But he ran into the office and none of this dawned on him until he got outside hours later.

There is only so far the car can "protect us from ourselves," but EVs are quiet and people new to them, used to engines running for years and quiet as a cue that things are shut down, may make this mistake. Hell, people have driven off with their kids or pets still on the roofs of the cars! So this is an issue.

An issue which, though clearly the fault of inattentiveness, could lead to bad publicity the first time a family dies of CO2 inhalation from the engine running in the garage.

Is there anything that the car can do in its current state to warn of this condition?

-MKL
 
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#31 ·
Sorry it is 4 chimes not beeps if you try to charge with the car on.
PLUS you get chimes when you open the door if the car is still on
PLUS if night time the head lights are on.
--------------------------

If you want the distance of remote from the car to trigger something then add at least
1. car not moving
2. both front seats empty
 
#34 ·
Guys-

I think those of you discussing beeps and chirps are missing my original point. As I said this employee ran into the office, in a rush. When you're in that frame of mind you are not paying attention to the number of beeps, chirps, or indicator lights on the dash. What I am discovering in the course of this thread is there is no true failsafe here.

-MKL
 
#37 ·
I'm not sure a true fail safe is possible under the circumstances, since different behaviors are desired by different people. Maybe they need an option in the config menu to shut off if left in park for 5 min/20 min/1 hour/never, or something like that - so users can decide what they'd prefer. Kinda like power save settings on a PC...
 
#35 ·
I just started a thread like this. An coworker in his Volt left his Volt on. There was no such choice on the poll, and he doesn't frequent the forum, so I select that someone left my Volt on. Man, so far 7 people did, out of a small number of respondents. All it takes is one such time in a garage overnight while a family is asleep and no CO detector. I cannot believe there is no failsafe before the ICE starts!

-MKL
 
#73 ·
a safe way of doing the same thing is to turn the vehicle off and using your remote, lock the doors and activate the remote start..your car is locked and safe but is cooling the air while you're away...
 
#40 ·
It very quickly became a habit to power down. When I get home from work, I push these three buttons and then get out of the car:

Power
Garage Door
Open Charge Door

I guess if it does happen, it would only be once, because then you would force yourself to check...

C-5277
 
#41 ·
I never left my Volt on, but I did accidently turn it OFF while traveling 65 mph on the highway at about 10 o'clock at nite (no street lights - very dark strech of road). My wife was not impressed!
 
#43 ·
My sister-in-law who lives in Noe Valley, San Francisco, two days ago saw the aftermath of a horrific collision of a run-away Volt which rolled down hill within which were two children. The Volt was allegedly parked quickly while the Mom ran into the house during which time the Volt rolled backwards down the street into a T-intersection impacting several cars. The children were taken to the hospital, but were apparently unharmed. My sister-in-law said she was impressed with the structural safety for the children in the destroyed Volt. Apparently the police investigation suspects that the Park function and/or the parking brake were not properly engaged, possibly with the Volt left in D while the Mom ran into the house.

This is a reminder to properly park and turn off our Volts as we exit our cars.

2012 red Volt #4879
 
#44 ·
I left my Volt on once, the first week that I owned it. I was two hours from home, and ended up driving back on gas. Thank goodness the Volt is an EREV and not a BEV!

I also turned off my Volt once by mistake, at a stop light. No big deal.

And I've forgotten to plug in several times...

The Volt is good at "training" it's owner, and I'm certain that these functions are carefully thought out (and surely impacted by regulations).
 
#45 ·
^^ Wow.

Well, I think, from the small data so far, thats its obvious this 'issue' is real, and given the right circumstances, could go beyond just being a hassle. I can't believe the lack of a safety feature is a result of regulation. Its more like GM doesnt think this is a problem.
 
#50 · (Edited)
I believe GM has gone over this thoroughly, and as implemented, it is very well thought out. Though I do think it would be great if shut down and emergency procedures were standardized across the board for the industry.

Regarding danger, it is imperative that drivers park in a safe manner for the terrain and environment, regardless of their car being powered up or not. And research the amount of carbon monoxide from the Volts ULEV or AT- PZEV configurations that will exit the close set catalytic converter. Research compounding amounts of CO during additional passes of previously emitted exhaust.
 
#46 ·
It's not just the Volt... ALL cars with keyless ignitions have been having problems. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has proposed some changes to help prevent people from accidentally leaving their car on. It's interesting reading.

http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr031612.html

Here it what it says:

Keyless ignition dangers addressed by proposed rule

Keyless ignition systems would alert drivers who leave their vehicles without turning them off or putting them in park under a rule proposed by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). The rule would also standardize engine shut-off procedures for moving and stationary vehicles. The Institute supports the proposal but is asking the agency to make the regulation slightly more stringent.

Vehicles with keyless ignitions generally have a fob or other device with codes that can unlock the doors and start the vehicle. With the device somewhere in the occupant compartment, the driver simply pushes a button or turns a switch to start the vehicle. The systems are becoming increasingly common because of their convenience, but they can confuse drivers, resulting in dangerous situations.

In one complaint to NHTSA, a driver wrote of being dragged through a parking lot after trying to get back in a car that had started rolling away because it wasn't in park. The car eventually came to a stop on the driver's foot, and a group of bystanders had to lift it off.

Other drivers reported being awakened by their home carbon monoxide detectors when they inadvertently left their cars running in attached garages. Some people have died of carbon monoxide poisoning in such situations, according to media accounts.

NHTSA also is concerned that drivers don't know how to shut off a moving vehicle in an emergency – for example, if the accelerator becomes stuck. Many systems require the button to be pressed for a longer period than normal in order to turn off a moving vehicle.

To address these issues, NHTSA has proposed standardizing keyless ignition systems so that they all shut down after a half-second hold of the power button, whether or not the vehicle is moving. The proposal also calls for a loud warning to sound if a driver gets out of the vehicle without putting it in park. The warning would sound until the situation is corrected. A one-second warning would sound if the driver gets out, taking the key fob, without turning off the vehicle.

In a comment submitted to NHTSA, the Institute expressed support for the proposed rule and called for more research to determine what kind of difficulties drivers are having with the systems. It also suggested requiring a half-second push of the button for startup as well as for shutdown in order to reinforce for drivers how the systems work and thus make the shutdown procedure more familiar. The Institute also recommended adding a visual alert to supplement the audible warning when the driver fails to put the vehicle in park and requiring a more frequent or distinctive alert if the driver leaves the vehicle while it is still running.
 
#47 ·
I hate that, I regularly leave the Volt running AC on and go inside the convenience store. It warns me, I lock the doors with the FOB and all is well. I don't understand anyone who doesn't run through a shutdown procedure upon parking the car. Like has been said before, 3 button shutdown on the Volt, power off, open charge door if charging is intended, close garage door or getting out and locking the door if not at home.

Definitely these key-less systems require due diligence.
 
#69 ·
I hate that, I regularly leave the Volt running AC on and go inside the convenience store. It warns me, I lock the doors with the FOB and all is well.
Rather than leaving it running, I shut it down, get out, lock the doors, then do a remote start with the key fob. That gives me 10 minutes to do my business and get back. If I get delayed or something happens, the AC (and the car) will shut off.
 
#51 · (Edited)
I believe GM has gone over this thoroughly, and as implemented, it is very well thought out.
Do you know something you aren't saying? I don't see anything that is obviously 'very well' thought out. It seems the reverse. They are treating the car exactly like every other gas burning car, in which is obviously is not. The lack of cues are enough to allow a percentage of people in certain circumstances to not know the car is still on. It goes even further than the links above with Push Button issues, as this car is virtually silent when turned on.
 
#53 ·
Easy: Driver stops car and prepares to leave. He hears/feels the engine running, and realizes that he needs to do something about it.

The Volt is not a difference in degree, it is a difference in kind. It will be many many years before regular people stop reasonably relying on the notion that they can directly perceive that a car is "on" (via their own senses, not from instrumentation). To ignore this reality is an error in judgment. Frankly, even the concept of an "on mode" is not intuitive to mere mortals in the context of an electric car that appear to wake up and function (apart from moving) well before the user takes any action to "turn it on."

For bonus points, try explaining to the "man on the street" how "remote start" works in the Volt and how you still need to turn the car "on" before driving away even though the car if very much "on" (in the normal understanding of that word) when you jump in.

Anyway, I think this is a case of: the dumb user is always right, so make the thing idiot proof. This is especially true in use cases where the car's default behavior seems totally at odds with the user's highly-probable intent (stop car, put in Park, apply break, plug in, walk away with RFID key in pocket, no other people in car (it knows from occupancy sensors)).
 
#54 ·
I still think my idea of a screen prompt is the way to go. I think it is pretty much failproof. The main issue here should be safety, not the potential preservation of your electric range. The car should be allowed to deplete until the point of the engine turning on, and if no one pushed the 'turn the engine on' button, it powers off. And after that button is pushed, someone should have to push it again at certain intervals. And if the car was already on engine power, and put in park (we all know how it can go on and off generator), same message should be displayed. And if this ruffles anyones feathers, create an overrride in the setup. But it should be a standard feature. Period.
 
#55 · (Edited)
How about a boxing glove that comes out of the A-pillar if you attempt to exit the car with it "ON"
:D
Seriously, there are DOT and NHTSA requirements for such warniing and chimes that all manufacturers must adhere to. They cant always make them as user intuative as they might like. (let alone "customizable" lol) These requirements have perhaps become a bit antiquted as the technology moves forward.
In fact, there are regulatory committes working on "push-button" IGN requirements and standards as we speak.
(a bit of "fallout" from the Toyota "run-away" issue a couple years back)

If you feel so strongly about it "get involved" by contacting these regulatory agencies (i.e. file a NHTSA report at safercar.gov) or write your Congressman.

WOT

PS> On a similar subject, guess you can't please everyone http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?15756-Incessant-chiming-when-door-is-open
 
#60 ·
Originally posted by MichaelM:

"On the other hand... I have recently pulled into my very own driveway, finished a cell phone conversation (radio etc. all off from the main knob, so center screen is darkish), and attempted to leave the Volt only to hear: ding, ding, ding... what the? Oops. Volt left on. But so darn quiet I forgot to turn it "off." Red face ensues, guilty as charged, Mr. Dinger. Darn dinger probably saved my 12V battery, too."

Unless you park in a very noisy place, that never ending CHIME CHIME CHIME is all it takes for the majority of people to stop and see why the car is chiming. For someone in a great hurry, a simple screen prompt won't be enough.

Modern cars unlock and lock themselves just by walking up to and away from them. Could automatic ignition be next?

This does make me wonder if there is a similar poll on the Nissan Leaf forum?

Also, I believe the Tesla Model S automatically powers on the car when you get in the driver's seat and powers off the car when you leave (someone can correct me if I'm wrong).
 
#57 · (Edited)
Seriously, there are DOT and NHTSA requirements for such warniing and chimes that all manufacturers must adhere to. They cant always make them as user intuative as they might like. (let alone "customizable" lol) These requirements have perhaps become a bit antiquted as the technology moves forward.
Not buying that for this case. It seems like some manufacturer comes up with a new 'safety' feature every year that I highly doubt regulators are on top of. Collision avoidance, where a car slams on the brakes when someone has failed to stop. And now the Volt has lane departure and collision alerts. I simply don't believe shutting a car off when it is in park and unattended is being prevented by regulatory bodies.

If a car, like a Mercedes, can slam on the brakes for a driver while being driven at highway speeds, there is no reason you can't shut a car off when its in park and unattended.

On top of it, I resent someone telling me that I have to talk to my legislators to fix a safety issue. I shouldnt have to get government involved. GM should recognize the problem, talk to the regulators if need be, and present a solution.

The Volt is an awesome car. It is not without flaws. Engineers didnt think about everything.
 
#59 · (Edited)
Neither. I think he is making generalizations. He obviously knows his stuff. In this case, he hasn't proven it. But to compare this to a door chime that someone doesnt want to hear is just silly, which makes me think he doesnt think this is a real concern.

If he can say with authority he has been in a meeting where this issue was discussed and regulatory concerns stopped it, then I'll obviously believe him.

I think the issue is that GM doesnt know how often its happening, because I don't think its something you can easily determine through onstar and people aren't generally going to report it. But I've seen enough threads on this issue, and according to the nonscientific poll, a good percentage do it. The right circumstances will eventually lead to a bad outcome when this happens. Since this is a software fix, and not a hardware fix, this should be low on the difficulty scale to accomodate.
 
#64 ·
Neither. I think he is making generalizations. He obviously knows his stuff. In this case, he hasn't proven it. But to compare this to a door chime that someone doesnt want to hear is just silly, which makes me think he doesnt think this is a real concern.
Here is *my guess* as to how this works on in practice. GM has a procedure for how to handle the car being left on. The list had gone through n number of reviews so that the procedures comply with all regulations and work for customers. Now along comes a new technology. The list which works for the old technology may not work for the new. But no one working on a single vehicle will want to revisit the list. You've mentioned how hard it has been working on getting charging stations for your work so you will have some idea of what the issues are.

I'm also not seeing this as the safety risk. In the worst case the car runs now and again. In a ventilated garage this won't be a big deal. Also, if the person is in the garage, where they'd have to be in order to be affected, then they would hear the engine come on, which would signal them that the car was running and that they needed to turn it off.

I understand what you're saying about electric cars not being obviously on, and no doubt as time goes on and there are more EVs on the road we'll see something that notifies you when you exit the car without turning it off. But I don't see this as a critical issue that needs immediate attention.
 
#62 ·
I'm sorry but I'm sticking with a text message via Remote Link stating, "You left your car powered on you big dummy" message. Then be able to power off via same remote link. If you really want to get fancy config time limits of 5 - 10 - 15 minutes before message is sent. I would think simple without hacking the cars brain. I agree CarZin, this issue should be looked into.
 
#63 ·
The only problem with OnStar is that the Volt is exported to countries that don't have onstar. They should all benefit from having the car disabled. But I don't really care how they do it, just that something is done.

Created a thread on mynissanleaf. We'll find out how they perceive this, and if they can shed light on how the Lead handles this.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9723
 
#65 ·
A ventilated garage? I don't know many garages that are vented. Mine isn't. In fact, bed rooms sit above my garage. I actually know several people that keep their pets in their garage when it isn't hot in the evening time. I could probably think of a host of things that could go wrong with a car that is unintentionally running when the owner doesn't know it.

In fact, there is actually danger of CO poisoning even in a garage that is left open.

Not to mention the wear and tear on the car. Who wants to leave on vacation, and have their car idling for a week until it runs out of gas.

Its not really that it is a critical issue. But its an issue that needs to be responded to.
 
#66 ·
I so far have never forgot to turn my Volt off. Every time I go to get out of the car I look foward the the energy summary screen on my car when I turn it off and open the door.

I did however almost turn it off accedentaly when parked. I was picking my wife up from work and I was a few minutes early. I put it into park and just left it on with the radio. (I used to just run my previous vehicle in run mode with the engine off). When she came out I steped on the brake and reached for the power button. But I saw the backlight on the power button and had a DUH! moment.
 
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