Model S Test Drive

[Koz]

Went to the Model S test drive event in So. Florida yesterday. I know the Model S is outside of the price range of many buyers but it is an excellent vehicle for the intended market. It excels the competition in many areas with the only meaningful exception being range. For those interested in a $40-90K car, the Model S has a lot to offer.

For those of us familiar with the Volt, you will appreciate a lot of the same virtues but at a higher level style and refinement. The car is larger, especially in the usable interior space. It fits well in the mid to large sedan arena but with extra storage space. The exterior design is elegant in most respects and with a few unique luxury details, i.e. retracting flush door handles. The only nit is the front end is slightly small in proportion to the rest of the vehicle but this only shows subtly in a few viewing angles. The exterior fit and finish looks excellent, including the color selections.

The interior is definitely on the luxury side but I think it best be described as spartan luxury. It fits with clean lined modern European design. It appears some decisions were consciously made to create this feel, e.g. frameless rear view mirror and open area in the space between the front seats. This augments the space advantages of their skateboard platform and EV drivetrain. It is nice in a sense that it gives the cockpit a more spacious feel but they went a little far IMO by not including some storage in the center console. It has a split armrest/cup older but each side can only serve one function at a time (arm rest or cup holder). Seems like they could have easily incorporated a storage cubby in the unit with much added cost or loss of space. The fit and finish is high quality to be expected in a luxury sedan but not much seemed special to my eye beyond those aspects already mentioned. It is a step above the Volt's fit and finish but with less interesting design IMO.

The ride is awesome. It is a level or two higher than the Volt's in almost every respect and I think the Volt's is excellent in many ways. The version I drove was the standard 86kWh model, which has 5.6s 0-60 time. It did include the active air suspension. It exceeds the Volt is smoothness and greatly exceeds it in power. The steering and accelerator are tight, maybe even a little too stiff for the accelerator pedal. The lift regen, Model S only has lift off regen BTW, is much more refined than the Volt in L. It can go above 60kW but is dependent on speed and much more graduated than the Volt in L. It takes some getting used to in the Volt to avoid jerky driving in L but the S in the highest regen mode is seamless. The is definitely makes for an easier, smoother drive but may be a detriment in heavy traffic. Another strange choice as the have the regen setting on a skin of the main screen. They have three control stalks attached to the steering wheel and regen control should have been assigned to one of them or an on-wheel control button IMO. Accelerating up a steep hill is like launching in a speedy amusement park ride, pretty amazing. Visibility is OK but a little limited but having the trimless rear-view is a nice luxury touch. Braking was very strong if a bit touchy like the Volts when stepping on the pedal. It was much better than the Volt's in normal breaking to a stop in that there is no creep to fight against and the brake pedal always engages friction braking so there isn't the awkward surge when braking lightly in the Volt and the regen disengages.

I did not play with the screens, controls, or audio so I cannot comment to much on them. The instrument display is very well done and looks more refined than the Volt's. I don't know if you have all of the informational display options that the Volt does but the digital/analog view combo is very nice and includes a kW meter on one side which is really cool. This is something I've always that the Volt should have somewhere on the two screens. The 17" center screen is obviously huge but is a bit awkward fitting in the dash. I think Tesla did as best they could blending it in without sacrificing screen area. Personally, I would prefer they sacrifice a little screen real estate for the sake of design.

As to be expected, there were numerous high end luxury car drivers there for test drives. All in all, it is an excellent car for the money EV, gas, hybrid, or whatever. For those that the range works, they should be extremely happy with Model S.

[DonC]

Not sure where the $40K number comes from but the *base* model with options (not all options, just things like leather, the tech package, and a color other than white or black) will be $60K after the federal tax credit. That's a lot of coin for a car with a range of maybe 100 miles that doesn't even have advanced features like adaptive cruise control. The step up model with the 60 kWh pack definitely offers better value, but at $70K and lacking the amenities you find in cars for tens of thousands less you can hardly say it's a good value.

At these prices TCO doesn't come into play because the depreciation is too great. The best hope from a financial standpoint is to buy and have Tesla go out of business, in which case you'll have quite a collector's car.

I haven't BTW driven the Model S. I had the option but the "test drive" consisted of driving around Space X for a few minutes, which wouldn't have provided me with much of an idea about real world ride and handling. No doubt it's got good acceleration and is very responsive, that comes with any electric drive, but I'm not convinced on the handling. Having both the head engineer and the chasis engineer leave or getting the boot just as the car launches doesn't engender confidence. Something was obviously a problem and either management wouldn't fix it (my guess) or couldn't fix it and just blamed these two guys.

[Zythryn]

True, I think he meant to say 50k as that is the price of the base model after the federal rebate.

100 mile range though Don, really? The base model range at a constant 55mph is 160 miles. EPA rating of the 85kwh pack is 265, which is just about 12% less than Tesla's 300 mile constant 55mph range. If you use the same adjustment, you get a range of 140.

The handling has been the most universally applauded aspect of the Model S. The skateboard design has been used to wonderful affect.
If you are visiting MN sometime after October come on by. I'd be happy to give you a ride

Koz, thanks so much for the review!!

[Koz]

Nope, I meant what I wrote. I certain DonC and I will stay on opposite sides of the fence with regards to the Model S but I'll give it a whirl anyway. Plug-ins have value beyond their ICE counterparts that is directly prportional to their electric only range up to a point. Of course, that value is specific to the owner just as YMMV, YVMV (Your Value May Vary). For me, a pack size larger than 40kWh has almost no value and it would actually be more of a detriment to be stuck carrying the ~200lbs of unused weight around. I assumed $10K as the value beyond a comparable ICE for the 40kWh pack. Comps average about 22mpg and using 12K/yr and $4/gal, gas cost calculates to $17.5K in 8 years. Using 46kWh per 140miles of electric calcs to $3.5K. Bringing back to present value, leaves about $10K. This is conservative, IMO, since there will certainly be value to the ~30kWh capacity left in the cells at the end of this period. The maintenance costs should also be significantly less for the EV. Since the base model is $49,900 after the credit, I feel a $40K ICE comp is more than fair for a starting point.

Sure, one may want options in their car that are not part of the base model but that is only relevant on an individual basis. There are plenty of standard features in the Model S that you won't find in the $40K comparable ICE vehicles. For similar reasons, the Volt comps to ICE vehicles starting at $25K from a cost/value perspective. That being said, leather ($1500) and the Tech Package ($3750) are the only options for the Model S that have some elements that are standard in many $40+K vehicles. Of course to set the baseline with this is totally discounting the standard features that the Model S comes with that are not included in most $40K vehicles.

As far as range, the 40kWh pack is @400lbs lighter (at least according to the rep I spoke with but he admittedly was unsure of this value) and will come in around 140 miles for EPA rating as Zythryn suggests. This is in line with what the Leaf is rated on a mile/kWh basis. I do think that the EPA needs to re-evaluate their BEV rating system. They should use a range based 75% of their current calculation in addition to the day one range. What good is it to buy a car based on the initial range if it won't suffice after a couple of years? For most people they should purchase based on charging to 80% or whatever the lower charge point is in the beginning of battery life. Once the capacity diminishes to the point that that is no longer acceptable then charge to the higher level. If this doesn't provide acceptable range then they should purchase a larger pack or longer range BEV. To that end, I consider the base Model S an 105 mile BEV.

All EVs are created equal no more than all ICEs are created equal. The Volt ride is very good, excellent for a $25K car. The acceleration is more than adequate for around town driving and the torque is great. The Model S is at a different level on every level of the ride, somewhat like a S class is to a C class Mercedes or an ES is to an LS Lexus. The Volt's passing power is reasonable up to 65MPH start but gets sluggish from their, not so for the Model S. The S is about 4500lbs and larger. The size of the interior and heft are apparent, in a good way. Add the leather, tech package, pano roof, and air suspension and you rival any $60K sedan.

Like I state originally, if the range and plugging-in works then the value is easily their versus its ICE peers.

[DonC]

100 mile range though Don, really? The base model range at a constant 55mph is 160 miles.

The math seems straightforward. If you think something is off then tell me. But the math tells me: Three miles a kWh for a car this heavy isn't bad. (You get somewhat more in the Volt but it's 1000 pounds lighter, rated at 99 MPGe rather as opposed to the 89 MPGe the Model S is rated at). In fact the EPA says the Model S will need 38 kWh for every 100 miles, which is 2.63 kWh per mile from the wall. Unless the charger is ungodly inefficient you're getting 3 miles/kWh. The pack is 40 kWh. The most you can use is 80%. That's 32 kWh usable. 32 kWh X 3 miles/kWh = 96 miles. Moreover, that's to the point where the battery goes flat, and no one (hopefully) is going to do that.

That's also when the Model S is new. Completely different story after a few years. The Panasonic cells are basically good for 500, maybe 600 cycles. Now if you're willing to live with 75% of the initial capacity they might be good for 3X or 4X that number of cycles, but now you will be below 100 miles in almost any drive cycle.

As for the performance being very good, I'm not buying that at all. At this point I don't think anyone has really gotten what I'd call a decent test drive. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. But head engineers don't quit or get fired because all is working perfectly.

[DonC]

Koz, where are you getting $40,000 from? If the Model S was actually $40,000 then I'd have a different opinion of it. But AFAIK it's at least $50,000, and, as mentioned, $60,000 after a few options.

I also completely disagree that anyone is going to buy a Model S without options like leather seats. The Model S is purely and simply a "look at me" vehicle, and cloth seats just aren't going to cut it on a "look at me" sedan. If you did it would be a very bad idea come resale time. If I bought a Model S, in addition to the leather and tech package you've mentioned, I'd definitely want the glass roof ($1500), active air suspension ($1500), rear seats ($1500), and an upgraded paint job ($750-$1500). That still BTW isn't a fully loaded Model S. You have an opportunity to spend thousands more on things like a high wattage charger ($1200) or larger wheels ($3500). Realistically if you only dropped $10K on options you'd be lucky.

I aslo don't believe the range you guys are claiming. They simply can't be squared with the released EPA numbers. The EPA site doesn't list the range but it does say that the Model S uses 38 kWh/100 miles. That's at best 3 kWh/mile from battery to wheels. How can you get 140 miles from a 40 kWh pack using 3 kWh or more per mile? Heck this doesn't compute even if you used 100% of the cell capacity, and using 100% of cell capacity simply isn't possible. Because if the EPA says it takes 38 kWh to go 100 miles, then it's not going to say that you can go 140 miles on 40 kWh.

[cab]

Glad ti hear the Tesla Model S addresses the Volt's biggest shortcomings and then some. The "base model" is the best "deal", but I wonder how many buyers will end up with that model...a $70-$90K "solution" to the Volt's shortcomings is not really a fair comparison. In all honesty, if the Volt were a size larger and they improved the braking that would address my biggest complaints. I REALLY hope the Tesla Model S does well as it will help to mainstream this type of car and drive a more affordable price point.

[Koz]

Debating the initial cost of the Model S vs the Volt is not worthwhile. Once resale values and TCO is established then there will be some value comparisons to be made. So far the resale value of Tesla vehicles seem to hold up better than the Volt but I suspect that is due to the limited availability and market for the Tesla versus the Volt.

Not sure anyone is debating the initial cost of the Volt vs Model S. I compared the two feature and performance wise to give an understood baseline. Model S is bigger and more luxurious than the Volt. Two different class of vehicles to me. I see the Volt as a value competitor to Lexus IS, Meredes C, BMW 3, etc. I see the Model S competing against BMW 5 & 7, Mercedes E & S, Jaguar, etc.

[Koz]

Koz, where are you getting $40,000 from? If the Model S was actually $40,000 then I'd have a different opinion of it. But AFAIK it's at least $50,000, and, as mentioned, $60,000 after a few options.

I also completely disagree that anyone is going to buy a Model S without options like leather seats. The Model S is purely and simply a "look at me" vehicle, and cloth seats just aren't going to cut it on a "look at me" sedan. If you did it would be a very bad idea come resale time. If I bought a Model S, in addition to the leather and tech package you've mentioned, I'd definitely want the glass roof ($1500), active air suspension ($1500), rear seats ($1500), and an upgraded paint job ($750-$1500). That still BTW isn't a fully loaded Model S. You have an opportunity to spend thousands more on things like a high wattage charger ($1200) or larger wheels ($3500). Realistically if you only dropped $10K on options you'd be lucky.

I aslo don't believe the range you guys are claiming. They simply can't be squared with the released EPA numbers. The EPA site doesn't list the range but it does say that the Model S uses 38 kWh/100 miles. That's at best 3 kWh/mile from battery to wheels. How can you get 140 miles from a 40 kWh pack using 3 kWh or more per mile? Heck this doesn't compute even if you used 100% of the cell capacity, and using 100% of cell capacity simply isn't possible. Because if the EPA says it takes 38 kWh to go 100 miles, then it's not going to say that you can go 140 miles on 40 kWh.

I had a detailed response go poof when posting so this will be brief.

-$40K is derived by subtracting from the $50k after tax price, the $10K differential in 8 year running costs I enumerated previously. Any talk of normalizing costs with the base model features of a $40K car should include adding in the extra value of the Model S features that aren't in the $40K costs. Premium paint, pano roof, air suspension, rear seats, or upgraded chargers are either not available or are options for $40K cars so it is not logical to add them in.

-The ride is what it is or at least to the point I drove it which is not to an extreme or on a track. For every day driving, the Model S is a high end ride. The higher cost, higher performance versions rival any sedan on the market for power. According to every test drive review I've read, and there are many, it is a fantastic ride. Some of those reviews were after more than an hour behind the wheel and not from EV friendlies. Perhaps you should have taken the test drive, then there would be more to dispute this with other than the fact that some engineers moved on.

-The range comes out to 135-140 for the 40kWh pack no matter how you slice it, at least if it is done logically. You are using 38kWh/100 miles rating but this is from the wall just as the Volt's rated 36kWh/100 miles is from the wall. The rating for the Model S is based on the 85kWh pack, which is about 400lbs heavier than the 40kWh pack, so the 40kWh version will probably be 36-37kWh/100 miles. The 2012 Volt is rated 35 miles per charge and that is about 10kWh from the pack, times 4 and you get 140 miles for 40kWh. No, I won't be charging to full very often if ever and nobody else should purchase expecting to charge to full every day. This is why I derated to 75% to arrive at a more realistic 105 miles of everyday range. Of course if you live where the temps get below 0 degrees, you should plan accordingly (drive 60 or get a bigger pack).


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[sinnombre]

I think the 40kWh is the wrong way to buy a Tesla . If I wanted a car that doesn't allow me to leave town , I would buy a Nissan Leaf for half the price . At least the 60kWh Tesla with super charging allows for long distance traveling . I consider 112 mile range for the 40kWh and 170 miles for the 60Kwh . The single 10kWh charging at home is fine for any battery pack .