Would you trade your internal combustion range extender for more battery range ?

[Ladogaboy]

When gasoline is $8/gallon will you still insist on generating your own power to the tune of $0.40/mile when power out of the socket for your battery is $0.03/mile?

That's assuming that you'll get out-of-the-socket rates for 50 kWh + charging while on the road. I can almost guarantee you that, when gas hits $8/gallon, the cost of recharging on the road (energy for energy or mile for mile) will be commensurate with that $8/gallon. That electricity that you are purchasing needs to come from somewhere, and right now, in the United States, that source primarily is fossil fuels. As the price of fossil fuels goes up, so to will the price of electricity. Then add to that the fact that you are paying for the convenience of electricity while on the road.

Hopefully, at the $8-10/gallon of gasoline point in time, I will be able to take a high-speed rail for my long trips rather than driving.

[Zythryn]

This is why I prefer the idea of never using public chargers.
My home rate fluctuates much less than gas prices.
I understand that some people require a vehicle that they can take on trips. And for those, pure EVs may not work. Luckily, I am not one of them. I suspect there are more people with my driving habits than people that have driving habits that require such trips.

[Dan & Nan]

The poll is not about the Leaf

Right, the poll isn't but you seemed to be comparing Volt owners to Leaf owners here:

Well , the poll seems to lead me to believe that Volt owners are very different than Nissan Leaf owners . I would trade my ICE today for 220 miles of battery range with 8kw charging and a minimum of 50kw public availability . The only time I would need to use the quick chargers would be on rare occasional cross country road trips .

And, I was just wondering what you were basing the comparison on, like if there was a poll on MNL.

[TeslaOwner]

IAs the price of fossil fuels goes up, so to will the price of electricity.

That hasn't been true for the last 35 years. Here's a chart from GreenCarReports.com:

The chart show prices in Feb 2011 dollars. The article the graph is from came from here: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...00-cash-a-year

I don't much care if they ream me for electricity on the road. Like I said, I only needed that like 6 times in 12 months, compared with over 50 gas fill-ups on my old car.

[Ladogaboy]

Again, home electricity prices aren't the issue, but the price for charging while on the road is. My point was simply that, charging an EV on the road will cost every bit as much as refilling an ICE. Since we are talking about plug-in hybrids versus pure EV, the home charging is the same. The debate is the cost while away from home. And while you might only need to recharge away from home six times per year, some might need to do so far more often.

[Ladogaboy]

Convenience fees are what I was referring to, primarily. While, as TeslaOwner's chart shows, home electricity has remained fairly constant, fossil fuels have spiked. My point was, even if the infrastructure were in place, quick charging stations would find a way to keep their prices commensurate with the price of gas. In other words, driving a Tesla S on a road trip would cost you as much to recharge as a normal car would cost to fill up with gasoline... despite the obvious advantage in efficiency on the part of the Tesla S.

At this point in time, if I were to use the Charge Point stations in my area to keep constantly on electricity, I would be paying the same amount per mile as I would if I were driving a 20 mpg ICE vehicle. $2/hr @ 4 hours for 35-40 miles. $8 to go 40 miles in my Volt versus ~ $8 ($4/gal) to go 40 miles in a 20 mpg ICE vehicle. The cost of that convenience is very high.

[sinnombre]

Convenience fees are what I was referring to, primarily. While, as TeslaOwner's chart shows, home electricity has remained fairly constant, fossil fuels have spiked. My point was, even if the infrastructure were in place, quick charging stations would find a way to keep their prices commensurate with the price of gas. In other words, driving a Tesla S on a road trip would cost you as much to recharge as a normal car would cost to fill up with gasoline... despite the obvious advantage in efficiency on the part of the Tesla S.



At this point in time, if I were to use the Charge Point stations in my area to keep constantly on electricity, I would be paying the same amount per mile as I would if I were driving a 20 mpg ICE vehicle. $2/hr @ 4 hours for 35-40 miles. $8 to go 40 miles in my Volt versus ~ $8 ($4/gal) to go 40 miles in a 20 mpg ICE vehicle. The cost of that convenience is very high.

The super charging would only be needed on out of town road trips (less than 2% of trips). 8-10 kWh charging at home would be fine .

"If" the super charging convenience fee was a 50 % markup on the cost of the electricity and I purchased 50kWk @ 15 cents instead of 10 cents, the gross profit would be $2.50 for a 40 minute charge . The big problem with the 6.6kWh public charging stations is there is little hourly profit to be made without a 300% markup because of the slow charging rate .

[Dan & Nan]

The super charging would only be needed on out of town road trips (less than 2% of trips). 8-10 kWh charging at home would be fine .

"If" the super charging convenience fee was a 50 % markup on the cost of the electricity and I purchased 50kWk @ 15 cents instead of 10 cents, the gross profit would be $2.50 for a 40 minute charge .

2% of the time they'll collect $2.50 - after they subtract huge demand charges, right? :>/

The big problem with the 6.6kWh public charging stations is there is little hourly profit to be made without a 300% markup because of the slow charging rate .

The slower charging rate is actually more beneficial to business owners. First, the stations costs are a fraction of the CHAdeMO's. Then, they also have a customer who's shopping, dining or spending money instead of the owner who's sitting in his car waiting for the charge to complete.

[Ladogaboy]

The super charging would only be needed on out of town road trips (less than 2% of trips).

I think that 2% you are quoting is very misleading. The average American might make an out-of-town trip less than 2% of the time, but those trips comprise as many miles as their in-town driving. That means that, if you are paying exorbitant recharge rates on the road, you will feel it much, much more. Take my average driving as an example. I drive 1,900 in-town miles per month, and if I visit my family once a month, I will put another 1,100 miles on. So, without any other out-of-town driving, I'm already at a 40/60 split of total miles driven.

Furthermore, I find your 50% markup to be woefully optimistic. Even in established businesses, the profit margin should be closer to 80-100%. And why would they shortchange themselves. As long as they are also competing with gasoline, they will price their product to be commensurate with gasoline.

The best you can hope for is businesses that will use the charging as leverage to get you into their businesses in order to buy higher-profit-margin items. Coffee shops, restaurants, etc., that allow you access to their chargers at a discounted rate (as long as you are a customer.

[marlow]

I would have thought that a 450 mile range and a good availibity of 50 KW charging would be good enough, but I have taken a few long torip all ready in my Volt and waiting the three or four hours it would take it to recharge a 450 mile range battery would not be fast enough.

Now when 500 KW chargers are redly available and the batteries could take charging that fast with out hurting them and have a range of over 350 miles on a 20 minute or less charge, then I just might might make the trade.

The Volt is allready a great road trip car with the ICE, the few times I have done 600 mile or more trips, while averaging an actual 38 MPG at 70+ MPH is not bad, with 5 to 10 minute pit stops.