EV Charging Prices... What do you pay?

[Jedi2155]

Sure, that's fine, except that government dollars didn't subsidize the installation of the fountain soda stations for wide-range adoption of Soda-fueled vehicles.

They probably did with the required food inspections, health safety inspections, and things like that. I'm just being nit picky though.

[ClarksonCote]

They probably did with the required food inspections, health safety inspections, and things like that. I'm just being nit picky though.

And I could be wrong, but I don't see people treating this convenience like a fountain soda, especially in range-extended vehicles like the Volt. My neighborhood gas station doesn't have a 20 times mark-up on gas versus Sam's club, and the only reason fountain sodas have that much of a mark-up over wholesale is because the cost is still in-line with bottled sodas. Not really a fair comparison IMHO.

People will not pay a 7x premium for electricity unless absolutely necessary, in my opinion. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I doubt it. And I still don't think it's legitimate to compare the rate to 7kW, 10kW, or 20kW charge rates when 99% of the vehicles out there now use a 3.3kW charger.

But I digress, it sounds like not everyone finds $2.40 an hour outrageous. While surprising, I hope everyone here that defended it also plans to use charging stations at that rate, otherwise it's sort of moot to argue for it.

[tboult]

And I could be wrong, but I don't see people treating this convenience like a fountain soda, especially in range-extended vehicles like the Volt. My neighborhood gas station doesn't have a 20 times mark-up on gas versus Sam's club, and the only reason fountain sodas have that much of a mark-up over wholesale is because the cost is still in-line with bottled sodas. Not really a fair comparison IMHO.

People will not pay a 7x premium for electricity unless absolutely necessary, in my opinion. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I doubt it. And I still don't think it's legitimate to compare the rate to 7kW, 10kW, or 20kW charge rates when 99% of the vehicles out there now use a 3.3kW charger.

But I digress, it sounds like not everyone finds $2.40 an hour outrageous. While surprising, I hope everyone here that defended it also plans to use charging stations at that rate, otherwise it's sort of moot to argue for it.

They might not have a 20x markup on soda compared to sams.. but they have a even larger markup on water compared to your home water supply -- which is really what you are comparing to. What do people pay for bottled water? Why?


I've really only had one chance to pay to charge, and in the end I paid $3 a day more to park where I can get a free charger (including being plugged in during the heat-wave) + gett covered parking, so over 7 days on my last trip that was a $21 "charge". Yes I got multiple two advantages, but I was willing to pay extra to support both features that I find deserable. Financially not worth it compared to parking at home, but then again I was at an airport and could not park/charge at home. I paid for the convenience and protection.

[RScott]

How do you figure this is less than the $0.18/kWh? are you ignoring the load charge ?

Most electric utilities have at least two rate structures. Residential and Commercial. The Commercial rate structure is typically based on "LOAD" (how much power do they want) and "USE" (how much energy did they use). Residential is typically based on an flat account/monthly hookup fee and then a "USE" fee (kWh).

I'm comparing $.18 times 720kWh ($129.60) to 7.2kW*$11 + 720kWh*.0151 ($90.07).

At the National Grid Massachusetts site for businesses, for 720kWh/7.2kW load, it looks like it would be $98.75 ($10 monthly fee, plus $.06391/kWh supply plus $.05936/kWh delivery, or $10+$.12327*720). So not much more than what you were suggesting. At the incremental price of $.12327/kWh, that's $.89 per hour (at 7.2kW).

A couple months ago, the supply portion was $.08045/kWh, adding $.01654/kWh, or $11.90/mo, and $1.01/kWh.

So $1/hour wouldn't even have covered the electric portion in this area of Massachusetts (assuming the user is billed only for the time the car is charging).

In other parts of the country, it's probably more like $.25/hour they are paying for electricity, in which case charging $1/hour might even be excessive.

This is very different than gas, which varies very little across the country.

[ClarksonCote]

They might not have a 20x markup on soda compared to sams.. but they have a even larger markup on water compared to your home water supply -- which is really what you are comparing to. What do people pay for bottled water? Why?


I've really only had one chance to pay to charge, and in the end I paid $3 a day more to park where I can get a free charger (including being plugged in during the heat-wave) + gett covered parking, so over 7 days on my last trip that was a $21 "charge". Yes I got multiple two advantages, but I was willing to pay extra to support both features that I find deserable. Financially not worth it compared to parking at home, but then again I was at an airport and could not park/charge at home. I paid for the convenience and protection.

The scenarios are still different though, I believe. Bottled water is touted to be filtered, free of chlorine and fluoride, and simply "better" than tap water. Then again, I also do not buy bottled water, and don't understand why most people do.

[ClarksonCote]

L1 = 5 miles per hour of charging
Volt @ 240V = 10 miles per hour of charging (3.3kw max)
L2 = 25 miles per hour of charging (7.2kw max)
Tesla 10kw = 31 miles per hour of charging
Tesla 20kw = 61 miles per hour of charging

I figure a charging station can get about $200 in monthly revenues at $2/hr
They are paying $80 for their load charge (7.2KW at $11/month) and about $12 in energy charges (720KWH at 1.51¢)


That about $108 net operating. Now lets guess about maintenance costs, real estate, equipment, etc ....

That math seems a bit fuzzy. Even if we assume 10 miles @ 240V 3.3kW, 7.2kW is 2.18 times that, and 2.18 times 10 miles is 21.8, not 25.

I'm assuming 35 mile range for today's Volts, which is the EPA estimate and best represents the average EV range across the entire calendar year for all drivers. That would work out to 8-9 miles/hour for Volt, and maybe 18 miles for the Ford Focus Electric.

But if we're charging based on maximum potential, why not put in a station capable of delivering 100kW and then charge $24.00/hour? Comparing the price to the 20kW case just isn't representative of the current consumer market, as the majority (>90%) of EV's today are 3.3kW

[ClarksonCote]

So $1/hour wouldn't even have covered the electric portion in this area of Massachusetts (assuming the user is billed only for the time the car is charging).

In other parts of the country, it's probably more like $.25/hour they are paying for electricity, in which case charging $1/hour might even be excessive.

This is very different than gas, which varies very little across the country.

That's sort of my point too.

The rates here were set based upon rates in NYC (4 hours away), but our electric rates are likely much cheaper. The place where I work pays about $0.06/kWh compared to me paying double that (Prior to my solar panels), so I don't see the need to charge so much per kWh at EV stations in this area. My point is that charging so much more than the cost will not encourage the masses to adopt EV's, and will likely do the opposite.

[ClarksonCote]

L2 spec max is 70A at 240v or 16.8 kW - have not seen any yet but that is the L2 spec.

Hi Solar EV,

I think that's the enhanced Level 2 spec, the "standard" Level 2 spec supports 7.68kW (240V/32A). I'm not an expert here though.