Some real competition for the Volt - just around the corner

[montgom626]

The only reason the US is treading water is the 1.3+ Trillion a year deficit spending,

And that 70% of all taxes are to pay just the interest on the debt. Not to reduce the debt, just the interest on the debt. Tax and spend is not a solution.

[jsmay311]

And that 70% of all taxes are to pay just the interest on the debt. Not to reduce the debt, just the interest on the debt. Tax and spend is not a solution.

Not that anyone really cares what this guy says, but it was 6% in FY2011, not 70%.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

[agggilli]

Back on topic, I had a fully equipped Fusion for a week long rental a few weeks back while my daughter drove my Volt, while her car was in the body shop. She wasn't old enough to sign for a rental, so I did it and she used my car. I do not know how the new hybrid Fusion or C-Max compare to the current Fusion (non hybrid), but I hated the interior of the Fusion that I had. It felt narrower than my Volt, and the controls and overall interior felt very cheap and plastic. It had a ton of big grain vinyl covering everything from the dash to the doors. Outside, the car actually is aesthetically not bad, and the trunk was huge. The shifting of the automatic seemed clunky and inappropriately timed, but maybe I'm just used to my Volt.
I guess I'm just saying that I was glad to get my Volt back, because after driving such a luxurious ride as my Volt since Feb. the Fusion felt like an econobox. I'm not knocking the car so much as to say, I hope Ford puts a much nicer higher tech interior in the new Hybrids or they might not do as well as some might hope.

[KyleH]

I'll have to agree. Heck, the concept Volt didn't even run! Engineers had to manually push that bucket around from tradeshows to tradeshows.

I think GM raised the bar pretty high on a Gen#1 vehicle. I personally think that GM had all of the R&D from the EV1, and that was the true Gen #1 vehicle for GM. The Volt is the better mousetrap; perhaps it is more appropriate to call it Gen#2. I suspect everyone else has a great learning curve to go through while they put out their Gen#1 vehicles such as Nissan, Ford, etc.

I suspect that by the time Ford release's their vehicles, GM will have other voltecs in Cadillac (or possibly Buick).

But, then again, more competition keeps things spicy and exciting. Maybe get GM to anticipate the releases and get their Gen #3 technology out early.

-KyleH

Concept cars and cars not yet available have a lot in common. Until they are actually being sold, you can't really call them competition. As we have seen with the Volt, things can change a lot from concept to actual vehicle. Until then, it's hot air and hype mixed with hope and dreams. None of which are available for a test drive.

[KyleH]

I somewhat agree, but at least GM is out of bankruptcy and the Volt is "out there" and it works. I do not think a new vehicle will cost much less than the current prices after subsidies. But that is IMHO based on looking at current Prius costs and their past subsidies on the past costs.

It will be up to the consumers to prove it; however, I think dealership and GM are probably making more money on Cruze's than on Volts. And a Cruze will cost less than a Volt. From GM's perspective, they probably answer to shareholder and commissions, so I doubt they really care if they make either a Cruze or Volt. Hopefully, they can simply "flip a switch" to adjust the necessary inventory if they need to increase a production from one to the other. Currently, the consumers seems to like the $$$$$ of "MSRP" of the Cruze instead of the $$ off for the Volt. But, the good thing is that at the end of the day, GM is still in business. Hopefully, they will be around long enough forever, but if not, at least long enough for anyone that ever wanted a volt has the opportunity to buy one.

Chances are in another 5-10 years, there may be a better technology that will work out better. Personally, I would like a "Mr. Fusion" reactor from Back to the Future, but with similar fears of driving a Hydrogen fuelcell-car, what woud prevent an accident from blowing you up? At that time, I suspect the Volt-ish cars will costs about the same and gas will probably get close to $5/gal, and that alone will make the same economics as today's subsidy with $3.50 gas. Even at $7/gal gas, I do not think you can disuade people from driving their $50-200k cars--the owners of those higher end vehicles may be more interested in the quality, performance, status symbol, etc than the cost of a full tank of gasoline.

At least the cat is out of the bag, and if gasoline, polution, oil costs, etc become more of a problem, at least EV's are a solution against OPEC and terrorists influences. People will have to decide for themselves if want to be more responsible, or if they prefer (or don't care) in their vehicles. (I doubt anyone driving a $200k mercedes/ferrari cares if the gas they are buying may be encouraging terrorism. At least not enough to be seen driving in any 40mpg econobox.)

I think there will always be the "group" who buys the $200k mercedes/ferraris/bentley/excotics; $10-15k group for the economic buyers; $20-30k for the luxury level; and now, a new group that are in the $20-45k for the responsible / green / scientific-analytical-financial drivers. Then, the used car market... IMHO, it is unlikely that people will move too much from these groups.

-KyleH

Competition is good. This will just ensure that EREVs and plug-in hybrids will continue to grow and that in turn cuts manufacturing costs until more and more people can afford them. EV motors are just so much more efficient than ICE, it just makes too much sense.

[KyleH]

I agree with most of your points, and I also fear that world markets may fail before they can realize how the ampera can help them. Ampera is in the right market for GM with the price of gas outside of the US at 2x the cost (mostly due to inflated taxes).

But, at least car is out there, and it works. And engineers are learning from them: volt, leaf, hybrids, fisker, tesla, etc. If something should happen, it seems to take about 3 years to get an EV from brainstorming to mass production (ie, nissan, GM, and Ford's past efforts).

As battery prices and technology seem to get better, the price is on its way down where every car maybe able to have some kind of "technology" added. Kind of like how everyone now seems to have a cell phone while 20 years ago, they were $1000 items that costs $1./min to operate. Maybe one day we will have some different kind of batteries that can be cheaper, lighter, etc.

Either way, at least it is not the same story of the EV1 where they were sacked on the GM's tech shelves and destroyed (I assume to prevent the technology from being leaked to the competition.)

Personally, I think if the US wants to move away from EV technology, they would find a cheaper energy source. While electricity is cheaper than gasoline, one alternative is to try natural gas or LNG into cars--at least while shale is a cheap solution. However, shale-gas may actually help EV cars too because night electricity prices are at all times lows and it has lower power than gasoline. The 0-60mph drag races will look pathetic with LNG versus Volt or ICE.

-KyleH

...

So, this is why I see it being a negative and possible doing in many manufactures that venture into EV/EREV. Nissan will be bankrupt in a year thanks to the leaf, its just basic math, you can't spend 3 billion and then have no sales and everything is OK. The republicans will squeal with glee and if they take power in the fall, it will become very hostile to anything but drill-baby-drill

So this is 2012, not 1998 and its a very different world ... For everyone's sake I hope I'm all wrong

[Brian Loves Cars]

anything that kicks in an ICE above an acceleration rate of X, or a speed of Y, isn't competition for the Volt in my book.