Some real competition for the Volt - just around the corner

[RedneckRoyalty]

http://wot.motortrend.com/2013-ford-...hp-227949.html

It's going to be interesting to watch as GM and Ford's vision for the future of plug in hybrid cars duke it out in dealerships around the country.

Ford has two plug-in hybrids right around the corner. Both will use a CVT with power inputs from an Atkinson Cycle gas engine and electric motor(s). (Similar to the Prius, but a bigger battery).

The first vehicle, launching this fall is the C-max. It will be sold in two versions. A hybrid or with the energi system, which is the same basic system, but has a bigger battery. Ford claims that it will go up to 15 miles on a charge.

Later this year, they will also launch the new Fusion which will be sold with their ecoboost gas engines, with a traditional hybrid, or with the energi system. I have heard rumors that the range after charge on this vehicle may be as high as 35 miles.

My thoughts:
1. I think Ford's plan to use common platforms will give them a significant cost advantage over GM's volt. The Fusion for example, will sell at least 250,000 units a year. This greatly reduces the cost to manufacture all of the "non-plugin" parts of the car. The same thing is true of the C-max. While there isn't a gas only option, the platform is shared with the non-plugin hybrid, which is priced at $25k and should sell quite well.
2. As far as interior room and storage goes, the C-max and/or the Fusion look to be much more practical for my needs.
3. It doesn't look like either car will have the Volt's range on a charge. Obviously, greater range increases the up front cost for batteries, and the weight of the car. If the C-max energi comes in at $30k and only goes 15 miles on a charge, is the Volt's extra 20 or so miles range worth $10k?
4. No matter how you look at it, the competition is good and this is good news.

[saghost]

http://wot.motortrend.com/2013-ford-...hp-227949.html

It's going to be interesting to watch as GM and Ford's vision for the future of plug in hybrid cars duke it out in dealerships around the country.

Ford has two plug-in hybrids right around the corner. Both will use a CVT with power inputs from an Atkinson Cycle gas engine and electric motor(s). (Similar to the Prius, but a bigger battery).

The first vehicle, launching this fall is the C-max. It will be sold in two versions. A hybrid or with the energi system, which is the same basic system, but has a bigger battery. Ford claims that it will go up to 15 miles on a charge.

Later this year, they will also launch the new Fusion which will be sold with their ecoboost gas engines, with a traditional hybrid, or with the energi system. I have heard rumors that the range after charge on this vehicle may be as high as 35 miles.

My thoughts:
1. I think Ford's plan to use common platforms will give them a significant cost advantage over GM's volt. The Fusion for example, will sell at least 250,000 units a year. This greatly reduces the cost to manufacture all of the "non-plugin" parts of the car. The same thing is true of the C-max. While there isn't a gas only option, the platform is shared with the non-plugin hybrid, which is priced at $25k and should sell quite well.
2. As far as interior room and storage goes, the C-max and/or the Fusion look to be much more practical for my needs.
3. It doesn't look like either car will have the Volt's range on a charge. Obviously, greater range increases the up front cost for batteries, and the weight of the car. If the C-max energi comes in at $30k and only goes 15 miles on a charge, is the Volt's extra 20 or so miles range worth $10k?
4. No matter how you look at it, the competition is good and this is good news.

1. By the time Fusion Energis hit the market, Volt will have ~40k units or more to drive down the learning curve.
2. Can't tell yet - haven't gotten to see the inside of these usreleased products. But the C-Max *should* have more room and better headroom.
3. Smaller batteries means smaller federal tax credit, which will reduce the cost difference (PiP and Volt cost almost the same after tax rebates, because of this.)

One other thing you may not have considered is that the Ford's super-Prius HSD type design means that there will be some speed at which the engine must come on (to prevent overspeeding MG2, which is permanently linked across the planetary gears on all HSD type cars.) My guess is it'll be similar to the PiP's 62 mph limit. Unless you stay below that limit, wherever it is, you won't be able to go mostly electric or achieve the sort of smoothness the Volt has. It also remains to be seen how much power they will allow in EV mode (though I though I saw a 80kW rumor - which would be enough for most purposes. The 30kW of the PiP limits you to pretty slow accelerations.)

[Dan & Nan]

4. No matter how you look at it, the competition is good and this is good news.

True.

But, the C-Max & Fusion are competition for the Prius & PiP because they're not EV in any shape or form. Any car that has to kick on the gas engine to climb the ramp of a parking garage isn't EV.

[DonC]

Meh. If you want a Prius V then you may want the C-max. If you want an electric drive then it's not of much interest. But anything that gets anything close to 50 MPG is welcome. Just not for me.

[astrand1]

I work in the entertainment industry and had a chance to get very close to the new fusion. overall its pretty sweet inside. nice layout, but as stated before it will only go maybe 20 miles on electric thats if you keep it under 62mph and it you give it full throttle even with a full charge the gas engine will come on. Gotta keep in mind that the fusion plug-in won't get the $7500 tax credit either. Like the pip it will get some rebate but much smaller. And if you get a fully loaded fusion plug-in word on the street is maybe around $36K so once you factor in the tax credit of the volt its really not that far off the mark and you can operate the volt pure electric and never use gas, except for MM of course.

[jbfalaska]

PLENTY of other entries. I haven't personally seen much direct competition between cars right now, nor on the drawing board. It isn't like Lexus versus the Elantra yet. I do relish that day though. They all seem to be sitting in they're own space, although Prius is losing sales to the Volt head to head. News outlets are reporting that is due to the American-made issue. Prius quickly responded and is moving production here AS IS Nissan with the Leaf.

I personally welcome every single electric car - every car FUELED by American sources is a win for the country and for jobs here in America. It took the Volt to bring the Prius to the american assembly line, so indirectly, the Volt racks up another win for this country.

[Bob_Livonia]

1. I think Ford's plan to use common platforms will give them a significant cost advantage over GM's volt. The Fusion for example, will sell at least 250,000 units a year. This greatly reduces the cost to manufacture all of the "non-plugin" parts of the car. The same thing is true of the C-max. While there isn't a gas only option, the platform is shared with the non-plugin hybrid, which is priced at $25k and should sell quite well.

The Volt shares the high-volume global Delta II platform with the Cruze, among others (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Delt...Applications_2) This causes the Volt to be criticized (usually by those who know nothing about it) as a $40,000 version of the Cruze. Yes, there are certainly economic advantages of common platforms and architecture, including electrical. Volt shares the Global A electrical architecture with other GM vehicles, and Global A gives the flexibility and expandability to economically handle anything from a base Aveo to the Volt's needs.

The customer doesn't care about those things they don't see; such as whether or not the Cruze or Cadillac's electrical architecture is the same as the Volt; likewise with the "gray metal" in the undercarriage. That being said, the Volt in no way (other than basic size and the Chevy bow tie) visually resembles the Cruze. I don't think that's the case for Ford's electrified versions. Let's see if the customer cares.

[adric22]

I can't agree that competition is always a good thing. For example, when you take a very small market and then slice it up even smaller between many different brands. All of the remaining pieces of pie may be so small the manufacturers decide it isn't worth it to produce.

As for the C-Max. It has absolutely no visual appeal for me. The fusion looks better, but still not a style I care for. If I had to pick something out of Fords electrified lineup, it would have to be the Focus Electric.

[Henry_FL]

Yes more players, different market. The only direct competitor to the Volt is the Fisker. Fords products will battle it out with the Prius which look like the Volt to be a 20K sales a year market ( plugin parallel Hybird ).

The danger is if sales don't increase, you will have many company's lose huge sums of investment, forced to discontinue there products and will probably setback EV another 10-20 years as gas efficiency continue to improve. More is NOT better at this point, the market is to small and everyone stands to lose.

[Fulgerite]

I don't think the C-Max really has much more space than a Volt. It has 1 more back seat. The cargo room is not very different. The EV range is less than half of the Volt's range. (I hear an awful lot of people on this forum asking for MORE EV range... Not less.)

I also wonder what the acceleration will be like in EV mode for the C-Max. How will it drive compared to a Volt?

The C-Max seems like more IC less EV. And... We shall see about the price difference. Too early to tell for sure.

Unlike Henry_FL... I think more EREV choices the better. It helps raise market awareness and makes the EREV concept seem more "mainstream".