Current public charge station implementation doesn't make sense

[ahaer]

I've watched as people say how "great" it is for the deployment of all of these charge stations around town. In my opinion people are missing the point and they will be a complete failure because

1) If you have a pure EV you can NOT rely on public chargers to get you home
Would you really go far enough from your home that you couldn't get back if the charger was down/unavailable?

2) People don't need public chargers for places they normally go
Most stores/malls/movies/shops are "close" to home...

The only type of charging infrastructure that makes sense to build are Highway based fast chargers. But when you think it through they don't make sense either.

The highway chargers would have to be spaced every X miles and whould have to charge fast enough that it only took 30 minutes or so to refill x miles. Any car that had X * 1.25 capacity would then be able travel anywhere there was a chain of stations. The trick here is how to pick X. Doo you pick a small amount (say 120 miles) that would require lots of stations or do you use a large amount (say 250 miles) that requires less stations but more expensive vehicles? Even then will someone who needs to go 600 miles *REALLY* be willing to add 2.5 (5*.5 for x=120) or 1 (2*.5 for x=250) hours to their 10 hour trip?

In my mind pure EV owners must give up the idea that they can travel beyond their range from home. At best they can plug in a work (commuters) or at a relatives (for family trips) but both of those cases are not public. To think that there will be systems in place to go on a trip "far away" a few times a year doesn't make sense.

If government/industry wants to spend money to encourage EV purchases they should make simple EVSE that plugs into a "normal" 240V plug available at reasonable cost (<$250) - they are only glorified GFI smart-switches after all

[DonC]

You're right. Also don't forget how long it takes to charge. It's not like you can spend 10 minutes and then go 300 or 400 miles. Reality is that batteries are ill suited for long hauls.

[baragona]

I agree entirely....

We need to focus on building an EV charging infrastructure on our "highways".

In actuality, free public chargers in malls/movies/shops are more suited for Volt owners who want to save a few bucks and not ever use gas...

I'm guessing that once public charging stations at malls/movies/shops are no longer free, these chargers will hardly ever be used because people will charge for less at home....

[yoyodyn]

You are right...today.
But at some point nearly every store will have a charging station, and those that don't won't get the business.
If there were 10-20 charging stations withing a few square miles, then it is certainly worth the risk to drive outside your range. Or more likely, to extend your shopping a bit instead of just store--home. Near here, there are two charging stations at the Whole Foods. Then another 3 nearby at Kohl's. Then a couple more at just about every Cracker Barrel in Middle Tenn (on an interstate).

Also charge stations could be added to most Rest areas on the interstate and still be within most BEV ranges for stops, but the charge time it what kills that idea, not the spacing. But with each new model the charge times will go down. Tesla already has some super chargers in the works (albeit non-standard, hate that).

[Dan & Nan]

This question has come up on MNL, and Planet4Ever created a spreadsheet to show how, no mater how fast or slow you drive a Leaf, the traveled speed per hour in a Leaf is limited to 44MPH in a perfect world. I say in a perfect world because it assumes the charger is right there, there's no time spent slowing down, no time spent speeding up, and the charger is in and charging the second you arrive. 44MPH when the rest of the world is doing 70-80 isn't going to convince many folks that RLBEV aren't city vehicles.

Well with QC you suddenly have an unlimited range EV. What's not to like???

A hard 45 mph speed limit that can't be broken no matter how fast you try to go?


Notes:

• Perhaps it should be less than 70%, but I am using Phil's report that "80%" is really out of total capacity, and more like 85% of available.
• Going below LBW won't help; it will just increase the charging time.
• If you go beyond 80% the charging slows dramatically, and the numbers get worse.
• 25 minutes charge time is very optimistic, since you need to include the time to get off the freeway and get to the charging station.
• 25 minutes becomes even more unrealistic when you realize you might have to wait for someone else to finish charging.
• I haven't allowed for the fact that multiple charges are likely to overheat the battery, forcing even longer waits.

Ray

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopi...8933&start=171

I will say that someone had a good point, that a single charging stop on their way to a ski resort (?) would be really helpful. Ok, I get that, it's a single stop, so it won't cause too much heartache. Except that charging and the stations are expensive. The station and installation cost can be $40 up to & over 100K for some units. There's a guy on MNL that says he can do it for $30K, but the charges will still be expensive - up to $25/ charge. They're subsidized or free right now, but once that runs out, someone has to pay the bills, recoup their investment and make money on their investment so stations that were free and/or subsidized may not be for long and it's something to think about. In fact, there was a poll on MNL, and most Leaf owners balked at the higher prices and said they'd rather drive an ICE and most everyone said they wouldn't pay much more than a Prius cost in gas. Then there's the fact that 8 other manufacturers have said they will not use the CHAdeMO L3 port on their cars and they will use the SAE Combo (it combines L1, L2 & L3 into a single port). I think those 8 manufactures will surpass the Leaf sales in a few years and we'll have a bunch of unused CHAdeMO stations that will need to be remade into SAE Combo stations ($$$). Finally, as battery tech improves we won't need stations spaced every 30 miles.

So, I agree, that right now we don't need to rush out and create a world of L3 chargers. I do think L2 stations at restaurants, malls, and zoo's are great - especially if you're in a car that can charge at 20 or 30 MPHC. A stop for lunch that gets you 20-30 miles sounds really good. The chargers are also much less expensive, and because they do take longer they give the station owners a customer who will spend more time in their store, possibly spending more money.

Anyway, I have to get back to work

[wizkid057]

Until someone develops a battery that can be charged instantaneously (<10 minutes) and can hold > 100kWh of energy, the Volt will be king of the EVs.

(Yes, I know it would take 600,000 watts for 10 minutes to charge my mythical battery... that's not the point! )

[Steverino]

I maintain that the best place is the workplace parking lot. My car spends 5 days a week there. Recharging there would allow me to drive gas free always.

[bobchr]

Here's an out of box proposal, supplemental road lanes with linear motor charging strips that would actively propel an electric car while that vehicle was moving over it. The car would never use its battery power and would drive autonomously while over that type of road. If the cars battery was depleted it would charge while rolling, payment would be done through an ez pass type mechanism. These lanes would be for EV's and REEV's only. This infrastructure could be built on the current interstate right of way. Cost could be capped to 3 cents per mile with periodic increases for inflation.

[12V]

I don't want to deal with plugging in everywhere I go. I sleep a solid 8 hours every single day. My car can charge then.

[Fulgerite]

I don't want to deal with plugging in everywhere I go. I sleep a solid 8 hours every single day. My car can charge then.

Well said. I could not agree more.