Charging the Tesla Model S

[Epares]

I agree that a faster charge rate would be great... I park in a garage in NYC during the workday and the charge station is by the hour.. I refuse to use it because of expense. they charge 3$ an hour. at our 3.2KWhr it takes four hours, its cheaper for me to use a gallon of gas to get home (30 miles) than to charge, 12$ charging vs 4$ in gas, the scales would tip back in my favor if I could charge the car for an hour and almost get home!.....

[Koz]

I agree that a faster charge rate would be great... I park in a garage in NYC during the workday and the charge station is by the hour.. I refuse to use it because of expense. they charge 3$ an hour. at our 3.2KWhr it takes four hours, its cheaper for me to use a gallon of gas to get home (30 miles) than to charge, 12$ charging vs 4$ in gas, the scales would tip back in my favor if I could charge the car for an hour and almost get home!.....

I doubt fee based public charging will supply 3 times the power at the same hourly price.

[Dan & Nan]

I'm not sure about your correlation that having 6.6 will cut down the gas miles in half on voltstats and Chevy's ticker. I used gas last weekend (140 each way) and a couple days ago (45 each way). In both case, even with 6.6 I would have used the same gas because I either didn't want to stop (part way into my 140 trip) or didn't have the opportunity (downtown Chicago area didn't have chargers where I was or would not be convenient at all). Again I think your correlation is flawed. Just my perspective and examples when I do use gas.

But, that's not what I said. I divided the 30M gas miles (out of 79M total miles driven by all the Volts) in half a bunch of times and made it 2M because you're right, there will be lots of times that charging mid-trip wouldn't be possible. But, 2M miles (out of 30M gas miles and 79M total miles) seems like a very reasonable percentage to use. I personally think 2M really low, I think double or triple that would be created with a 6.6 or faster in EV miles. Our own Volt's percentage would go from ~95% to 99% with a 6.6 or faster. GM's study on miles folks commute was obviously good, but it doesn't seem that it took into account the side trips, after work jaunts, errands and weekends carting the kids around that so many of us do. The 6.6 on the FFE & Leaf (and it's L3) will never make them road trip vehicles, or perfect for most single car folks because they're range limited, but they'll be great city vehicles especially once they get the 6.6 on the Leaf. The number of L2 is growing on a daily basis making opportunity charging easier and the faster charger more important.

It's way past time that they made a faster L2 available. Without it, I think 2+ vehicle buyers will start looking harder at the faster charging cars for their city vehicle and will keep their ICE for long range trips. I think we might have kept an ICE and bought the 6.6 FFE over the 3.3 Volt if the FFE had been available. The Leaf was available but we didn't go with it for numerous reasons including the 3.3.

I'm glad we own the Volt. The Volt's a great car, but a quicker charger and longer battery range are necessary upgrades for it to continue it's record breaking streak IMHO.

[Dan & Nan]

I doubt fee based public charging will supply 3 times the power at the same hourly price.

Right now they can't sell electricity, except in a few states, so the station owners need to decide who their target is. With all the 6.6 and faster cars coming and some already out there, are they going to sell based on their usage or sell to the 3.3 level? I'm guessing they'll set up for 6.6 right now, charge accordingly and "take advantage" of a 3.3 Leaf that needs a charge. But,that's only a guess.

[Epares]

I doubt fee based public charging will supply 3 times the power at the same hourly price.

I actually spoke to the company about how expensive their charging was and their answer was that they had to amortize the high volume draw (tesla) with the low volume draw (volt) to come up with an hourly price point that makes them money. I know my level 2 charger at home is capable of charging at 7 kw per hour...Something about NYC not being able to charge by the kilowatt hour because they would then be considered a utility and be subjected to different billing rules. So yes, if my volt could draw more power, I would use the charger more thus using less gas. It's a battle all around, but it's a fight worth fighting. I bug the charger people once a week about different billing scenarios that they could consider.

[mikeg3]

The European 2011 Volt Service Manual, which was posted here a week ago, says that the On Board Charging Module has three charging units inside to take the AC power from the EVSE port and output DC to charge the batteries. The first unit trickle charges the 12V battery. The second unit charges the main battery. The third unit charges the main battery only if the input is Level 2 (240V).

That suggests that the charging units would need serious rework to double the main battery charging rate.

Two interesting facts:

1. Even though the EVSE port is near the left front wheel, the OBCM is near the right front wheel.

2. The 12V charging unit won't operate after the main battery charging units finish charging the main battery.

I would like to see faster L2 charging but that will become academic if and when 240V or 110V power becomes a standard amenity at public parking lots. After all, you can't (yet) charge an EV while you're moving and a Volt is either moving or parked somewhere.

As for private homes, most reasonably new houses have outdoor outlets for lawn care use. At some point, plugging in will be no more exceptional than a guest using the powder room. These outdoor outlets are normally on their own branch circuit with a GFI. The ban on using extension cords shouldn't apply with a heavy enough gauge cable. I connected my 110V charger with a heavy duty extension cord for two months and the charger cable got warm while the extension cord did not.

[Koz]

I actually spoke to the company about how expensive their charging was and their answer was that they had to amortize the high volume draw (tesla) with the low volume draw (volt) to come up with an hourly price point that makes them money. I know my level 2 charger at home is capable of charging at 7 kw per hour...Something about NYC not being able to charge by the kilowatt hour because they would then be considered a utility and be subjected to different billing rules. So yes, if my volt could draw more power, I would use the charger more thus using less gas. It's a battle all around, but it's a fight worth fighting. I bug the charger people once a week about different billing scenarios that they could consider.

There are a lot of other places that have similar rules about charging per kwh and utilities. Someone would have to know the in's and outs of the legislation pretty well to say for sure but I'ld they could have multiple levels of charging rates based on voltage and negotiated max amperage. This would not be charge per kwh use as the actual power draw fluctuates but the J9224 standard has the communication already built in so the charger negotiates the charge level. It would be nice if the fee were lower for vehicles with onboard chargers and they are only providing EVSE services but that seems like a stretch.

[Koz]

Right now they can't sell electricity, except in a few states, so the station owners need to decide who their target is. With all the 6.6 and faster cars coming and some already out there, are they going to sell based on their usage or sell to the 3.3 level? I'm guessing they'll set up for 6.6 right now, charge accordingly and "take advantage" of a 3.3 Leaf that needs a charge. But,that's only a guess.

I see that working somewhat for opportunity charging and BEV but not many EREV owners are going to be willing to swallow that. I suppose it will come down to market share. The charger itself and location will be a big chunk of the cost so the fees for lower rates likely would be relatively higher even if rates were tiered so maybe the charger operators will refuse to break it down.

[Koz]

But, that's not what I said. I divided the 30M gas miles (out of 79M total miles driven by all the Volts) in half a bunch of times and made it 2M because you're right, there will be lots of times that charging mid-trip wouldn't be possible. But, 2M miles (out of 30M gas miles and 79M total miles) seems like a very reasonable percentage to use. I personally think 2M really low, I think double or triple that would be created with a 6.6 or faster in EV miles. Our own Volt's percentage would go from ~95% to 99% with a 6.6 or faster. GM's study on miles folks commute was obviously good, but it doesn't seem that it took into account the side trips, after work jaunts, errands and weekends carting the kids around that so many of us do. The 6.6 on the FFE & Leaf (and it's L3) will never make them road trip vehicles, or perfect for most single car folks because they're range limited, but they'll be great city vehicles especially once they get the 6.6 on the Leaf. The number of L2 is growing on a daily basis making opportunity charging easier and the faster charger more important.

It's way past time that they made a faster L2 available. Without it, I think 2+ vehicle buyers will start looking harder at the faster charging cars for their city vehicle and will keep their ICE for long range trips. I think we might have kept an ICE and bought the 6.6 FFE over the 3.3 Volt if the FFE had been available. The Leaf was available but we didn't go with it for numerous reasons including the 3.3.

I'm glad we own the Volt. The Volt's a great car, but a quicker charger and longer battery range are necessary upgrades for it to continue it's record breaking streak IMHO.

Our perspectives are different on this issue and I can understand your desire to squeeze in more EV miles but I doubt the higher charge rate is going to bring 6.7% more especially with the extra 0.5kWh useable capacity in the 2013 MY. It would be an interesting study either way.

I expect the next gen Voltec to have a higher rate regardless since GM will likely standardize their onboard charger hardware and the higher rate is essential for BEVs.

[saghost]

I'm not sure about your correlation that having 6.6 will cut down the gas miles in half on voltstats and Chevy's ticker. I used gas last weekend (140 each way) and a couple days ago (45 each way). In both case, even with 6.6 I would have used the same gas because I either didn't want to stop (part way into my 140 trip) or didn't have the opportunity (downtown Chicago area didn't have chargers where I was or would not be convenient at all). Again I think your correlation is flawed. Just my perspective and examples when I do use gas.

I suspect it'll vary a lot, and I don't think there's a way to tell with Voltstats data - possibly by looking at total trip length for trips involving gas? In my case, I'm almost half gas and it'd make pretty much no difference. There were one or two occasions where errands after work might have mattered, in the early days - but that was when I was on 110, and going to 220 did make a difference. Charging infrastructure where I went to visit would matter, but the rest of my gas miles are trips where I started with a full battery and just drove further - nothing to be done, the car is behaving as designed.