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200-mile EV from GM is true!

14K views 41 replies 26 participants last post by  rmay635703 
#1 ·
#2 ·

They said it would be based on Chevy Sonic, different from the Voltec or Chevy Spark's although the pic above looks like a Chevy Spark.

This will force Tesla not to overprice nor create more delays of their 200 mile Model III. If they overprice the 200 mile range Model III well beyond $35,000 before incentives or rebates, they will lose the mass market to GM. But of course, Nissan and other EV manufacturers will not sit idle on the sidelines. I believe something is brewing up inside their camps. Competition is good! The real winner could be LG Chem if Tesla's gigafactory battery is not online soon.
 
#3 ·
This is pretty much confirmation of the previous statements and rumors.
No date, not price target, not even sure what platform or if it will be sold outside of the west coast.

However, I agree completely that competition is good and look forward to some details that aren't preceeded by "according to rumor".
 
#5 ·
200miles*1,609km/miles*0,6winter-eff = 193km/charge.

Yay, it might work even though opel will sell it as Corsa EV. Needs better interior than existing ICEs to be interesting though.

But lets see what the D is before jumping about :)
 
#17 ·
#6 ·
Gasoline will soon be $1.98 /gallon, does any large group of buyers care about plug in cars or 75MPG compacts?

Blame all the plug in cars on the road for driving down demand for gasoline...

all those smiling Volt owners are killing the plug in car market....
 
#15 ·
Gasoline will soon be $1.98 /gallon, ...
Maybe not, or if so, not for long. By all indications most US shale operations would be losing money hand over fist at the oil barrel price implied by $1.98 gasoline. Many are already unprofitable but surviving by pulling in naive investors who will soon no longer be naive.

Shale oil well production drops off extremely quickly, so as soon as the shale operators throttle back and/or go bankrupt, we would see scarcity in the US and prices would rebound like a rocket. In fact, they would overshoot, as it takes a long time to restart the shale capex train in response to the recovering price (and maybe forever to entice twice-burned investors...).
 
#7 ·
you have a strange definition of "true".

for me "true" is a car that I could walk into a dealership with a check and drive out with a car 2 hours later. I'm continually astounded for the amount of mental energy people waste talking about cars that might be available in 2 or 4 years...
 
#8 ·
This should be interesting. The Model S and upcoming Model X still have no real competition, but it sounds like GM is at least attempting to compete with the Model 3.

(Which is itself a win for Elon/Tesla, since their goal is to get more electric cars on the road.)

I'll be interested to see what the actual specs and timing are - and what plans GM has for extending the range/DCFC.
 
#23 ·
While the Sonic is no large car it is very well packaged. My wife owns one and it has a better layout that I find has more passenger space than the Volt.

Supposedly made in Korea where GM makes it small front drive vehicles.
Sonic is made in Lake Orion Michigan. The only GM vehicles imported into the US from Korea is the Chevrolet Spark and Buick Encore.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Interesting, but I'm more interested in the next gen Volt, which will actually sell. A large majority of consumers prefer having a backup engine, which is a lesson that BMW has learned with the i3 (they are having to cut prices to sell the all-battery i3, while the REX is selling well). 200 miles will be better than the 70-85 miles of the i3 and Leaf, but it still fails Bob Lutz's "sick mother in Chicago" test unless GM is going to invest in a supercharger network. And with gas prices continuing to fall, EVs are in for at least a short term bumpy ride to gain market share. SUV and truck sales are again hot, hot at the moment.
 
#13 · (Edited)
He showed it. He had a name for it. Hard to make out. Something like Fav2 but the "F" might be a "B" and the "2" could be a "tu".

I doubt it's a Sonic -- if it were you'd think it would be the "Sonic EV" and you think he would have mentioned the similarities during the presentation -- but is probably has a similar size and shape. Supposedly made in Korea where GM makes it small front drive vehicles. No details at all. All he said was "Here is the FAV2. The battery electric car from Chevy. It's a different configuration". Maybe we'll see it in Detroit. That would be fun.

The 200 mile range claim seems iffy. Could be true but hardly set in stone. The only evidence we have of this is some comments made by Akerson when he thought the car would use Envia batteries and the claim by LG Chem that it would supply cells for a 200 mile BEV.

I also doubt it's competition for any Tesla since I don't think Tesla can sell a car for less than $60K given its volumes. Plus that would be in line with previous cost estimates from Tesla. We've had a $125k car and a $95K car. Next we'll have a $115K car. Hard to see how you get to a $35K car. The Leaf and the i3 are different stories.
 
#18 ·
The 200 mile range claim seems iffy. Could be true but hardly set in stone. The only evidence we have of this is some comments made by Akerson when he thought the car would use Envia batteries and the claim by LG Chem that it would supply cells for a 200 mile BEV.
This is the "MOU" car a bunch of manufacturers are talking about. Promise to try to build a 200 mile car if LG Chem can make the cells cheap enough, and LG Chem will give you a discount on current cell pricing. No real mention of whether that's the New European Dream Cycle or EPA. No mention of whether they'd be capable of charging at mph fast enough to make it a possible (small) road trip car instead of just a 2nd car that will see more use.

I also doubt it's competition for any Tesla since I don't think Tesla can sell a car for less than $60K given its volumes. Plus that would be in line with previous cost estimates from Tesla. We've had a $125k car and a $95K car. Next we'll have a $115K car. Hard to see how you get to a $35K car. The Leaf and the i3 are different stories.
:rolleyes: The Model S 60 with Supercharger access starts at $72k ($70k + $2k) That's for a full-size car with a 60kWh battery and 225kW electric motor.
The Model S was priced in early 2013.
The Model 3 will be produced no earlier than 2017.
It will be a mid-size, about 20% smaller than a Model S.
Cheaper batteries; lighter batteries; a bit less battery.
Cheaper power; less power.

Price = Core costs + overheads/volume. Saying they don't have enough volume to sell below a given price is thinking backwards. The core costs set the market potential. As the core costs fall, potential volume increases, which reduces the per-unit overhead, allowing a lower price and that can lead to rapid exponential growth. It happens with electronics all the time.
 
#14 ·
Thumbs up on the 200 all electric range and thumbs down - way down - if it indeed is a Sonic. The Model S is more than just about range. It is about the software, the design, build quality, etc. The reason people buy Teslas is because they are better than the BMWs, Mercs and Lexuses it competes with and happens to also be a fantastic electric car. The Sonic is a nice entry level car but no one is going to pay $35k for it, even with 200 AER.
 
#19 ·
Sure hope it ain't no Sonic:(
Cute little car for teenage girls hip-hopping to school but for adults going to Home Depot twice a month and to restaurants with 2 couples across town...Just say NO.
The Volt is the smallest car I will ever drive, hoping the next Volt will be a tad bigger and made of aluminum like Audis to save weight and increase range.
 
#34 ·
Interesting, does anyone know where and how one can quickly charge one of these cars 200 miles away from home?

Tesla has that covered with their SuperChargers, what is GM offering?
 
#35 ·
Using the current 240v 6.6kW standard as the minimum- you'd get about 20EV mi per hour of charge.
5hrs charge gives you 100mi range, 10hrs gives you 200mi range.
I can't envision GM planning a nation wide charging network, so Chargepoint, Blink, etc... will be our only 240v option out in the wild.
 
#40 ·
Who cares if price of fuel drops down to $1.98.

With my EV I still won't need to go to a fuel station, will STILL spend less money, filling up my car, will STILL NOT need oil changes, fuel filter changes, spark plug changes, etc etc etc, will STILL NOT have to smell the obnoxious startup fumes and fart smelling catalytic converter fumes, and WILL STILL have wonderful quiet, silent driving.

It's not just about the price of fuel and all the war and mayhem that goes along with. I find it incredible how much lack of thought there is by people who think it's the price of fuel and nothing else. Things are related you know...we don't live in a bubble.
 
#41 ·
I too am sorry to see gasoline prices so "low" in the US (definitely not in Europe!!!), remembering that that price does not reflect anything like the true cost we are all paying, and our children and grandchildren will pay.

But the reason prices are low is primarily due to the glut of oil due to policies that continue, ridiculously enough, to encourage further exploration despite the sure knowledge that we cannot burn all this stuff. Secondarily it is indeed due to marketing, which might in part be around killing the electric market. A policy response, in a functioning democracy, would be to remove production subsidies and subsidize, if anything, technologies that do not destroy our future.

We need to go forward. Buying a Volt or an EV is going forward, because it demonstrates that in fact we do not need to burn fossil fuel to have mobility. I will continue, myself, to move forward, and will be purchasing an EV to sit alongside the 2011 Volt in my driveway, which has 55k miles on it and shows no signs of range decrease or other problems whatsoever.
 
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