E85 Conversion anyone?

[jeffhre]

You're still using the same amount of oil with ethanol because it takes oil inputs to make the ethanol to the point where it's almost a net energy loser...

MrEnergyCzar

Good to see old myths, like that and that gas cars are cleaner when coal is used to make electricity are still out fighting for their lives Perhaps as more E85 is used as feed stocks for creating ethanol, the energy equation will get better. Like when the grid gets cleaner and more efficient EV's will also. But it's a lot like arguing that Volts don't pay for their higher cost of entry (is that because of higher energy inputs?) Well none of my ICE cars ever paid me back anything did they And I doubt using gas in a range extending generator is going to pay me back in net energy terms either, even if ethanol provides the barest of marginal energy returns.

If I factor in burning bunker fuel all the way from Saudi Arabia vs. Midwesterners filling up on fuel made and delivered in their own states to fill up...

We are in the 3rd year of an economic recovery and we are using 6% less gasoline than at the peak. Perhaps, Volts, Leafs, Mievs, Teslas, conversions, electric motorcycles, scooters, and bicycles have something to do with that* - in addition to the effects of the recession. But I've gotta think that 13.5 billion gallons of ethanol may help there too. If it paves a path toward cellulosic ethanol even better.

*oops, can't forget the Prii and mini e's...

In Southern California or Connecticut ethanol trucked in may not be a preferable choice, but in the Midwest, it will be a viable way to add to our energy diversity.

[drbruns]

As for not using fuel in the Volt, I disagree. If you never use fuel, then I'd suggest getting a pure EV. You'd have less complexity and a longer EV range for starters.

I couldn't disagree with you more. My commute is 25 miles r/t and I have level 2 chargers at home and work. I will likely be using gas only in Maintenance Mode and the yearly burn of old gas. Does this suggest that I shouldn't have a Volt and have a Leaf instead? I think not.

[jamesdawson]

There is a very good reason for no E85. Ethanol LOVES to absorb water. Thus, old E85 is much worse than old gas. Given the average age of fuel in a Volt, E85 would be a disaster.

I would think with the Volt's pressurized fuel tank that it would greatly minimize H2O absorbtion due to non-contact with air.

[kgurnsey]

I couldn't disagree with you more. My commute is 25 miles r/t and I have level 2 chargers at home and work. I will likely be using gas only in Maintenance Mode and the yearly burn of old gas. Does this suggest that I shouldn't have a Volt and have a Leaf instead? I think not.

Far be it for me to critisize someone's personal choice, but I think my point stands. Why are you lugging around an ICE when you are never going to use it? It adds complexity and forces you to use gas that you'd otherwise not use, if only for maintenance mode and a yearly burn. Not to mention motor oil and other maintenance related to the ICE. Personally I think that a Leaf would make more sense. Especially if you have a second vehicle. If my situation was thus, that's the route I would have likely gone. To me, the Volt shines best in those situations where a pure EV would not yet be practical due to range and charging limitations. That means all Volts would be burning some gas some of the time, but that's kinda the point. That's why the ICE is there in the first place.

Having said that, we are all free to choose as we see fit. Our perspectives and situations obviously differ, and that's fine. As long as you're happy with your purchase, and are driving on electrons, who am I to complain?

-K

[bonaire]

CS-mode will drop 6-7 mpg. Why would you want that? And, why worry about CS-mode mpg when the car was designed mainly to run on CD-mode on battery.

Better off getting a Chevy Cruze ECO and modding it for E85. That car uses gas all the time.

[drbruns]

Far be it for me to critisize someone's personal choice, but I think my point stands. Why are you lugging around an ICE when you are never going to use it? It adds complexity and forces you to use gas that you'd otherwise not use, if only for maintenance mode and a yearly burn. Not to mention motor oil and other maintenance related to the ICE. Personally I think that a Leaf would make more sense. Especially if you have a second vehicle. If my situation was thus, that's the route I would have likely gone. To me, the Volt shines best in those situations where a pure EV would not yet be practical due to range and charging limitations. That means all Volts would be burning some gas some of the time, but that's kinda the point. That's why the ICE is there in the first place.

Having said that, we are all free to choose as we see fit. Our perspectives and situations obviously differ, and that's fine. As long as you're happy with your purchase, and are driving on electrons, who am I to complain?

-K

I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. The reason I didn't buy a Leaf is that it is not close to the car the Volt is (IMHO).

[Dan & Nan]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. The reason I didn't buy a Leaf is that it is not close to the car the Volt is (IMHO).

That is extremely true. If someone hasn't driven (extended drive not a loop around the block) both the Leaf & Volt and spent time examining each then both cars seem similar. But, spending more time with both really shows how much better the Volt is. If the Leaf wasn't an EV it would just be an econobox. The Volt is in a different league - you can't compare a 3 series BMW to a Leaf but the Volt is definitely BMW competition. Even if we lived in a place with a good infrastructure I don't think we'd have bought a Leaf before we bought a Volt.

For any Leaf owners reading this, I might be biased because we own a Volt but we're planning on adding a 2013 Leaf to the stable - but only because of the 6.6 charger and the larger EV range which should take us from 92% EV to 98%. Actually we're probably 70% EV for now, till we trade the gas hog SUV

[BDP]

Wake up, even GM knows ethanol is a waste of natural resources and not worth the effort.

[cnicholson]

Corn ethanol is a HUGE net loser for the planet, for sure (unless you are a corn farmer). Even Al Gore concedes that now.

Nonetheless, it would be an interesting experiment. In addition to the normal/expected efficiency drop, I wonder if you would need to remap the Volt's optimization curves in terms of RPM / load / whatever. If 71% of throttle with 91 Octane is what the computer calls for as optimal at a given moment, would that still hold with E85? Even if you've got a booster gizmo to physically pump more fuel in the engine, this seems like rough justice in context of such a highly tuned car. These types of factors may cause a step down in efficiency even below the expected reduction.

[scottf200]

i did a conversion from flex tec of brazil to a normal gas car (not a volt). car idled much smoother. performance was about the same. fuel economy went from 33 gas to 25 e85. converter cost $400. there's the facts.

Yikes 33 to 25 MPG. Major reason why GM should not have done it right there. Sooooo many articles, complaints, questions, finger_pointing about the poor Charge Sustaining (CS) gas usage when many are getting 40 MPG today. Imagine if they dropped to 32! We already know the engine was tuned to run Premium vs Regular.

Personally I'd be concerned about doing this sort of conversion to the Volt as it's "algorithm" for Maint Mode (etc) were not accounting for E58 issues (more water and ?). After all some rarely use gas and MM runs for them. Would the gas engine have higher issues (ie. should MM be run more frequently for those using E85). Would this user-action (negligence?) cause the warranty to be invalid.

I drive a lot on electricity and on most days could get by with a LEAF from a technical standpoint but what about the days I need to go further (find out in the middle of the day plans change). That is ignoring styling, technology (lack of TMS), support USA headquartered company, and other issues I have with the LEAF.