E85 Conversion anyone?

[kgurnsey]

Since GM seems bound and determined not to offer Flex Fuel on the Volt (which I don't quite understand), has anyone installed, or has been considering installing, an E85 conversion?

From what I undersand, the kits I've looked at mostly just steal the fuel injector signal and modify it to inject more fuel. Apperantly modern cars can all handle ethanol in the fuel systems anyway without serious degridation. I don't see why this approach wouldn't work on the Volt as well.

Thoughts? Comments?

Side note: Anyone know or remember why GM won't add a Flex Fuel option to the Volt as originally planned???

-K

[knorc]

There is a very good reason for no E85. Ethanol LOVES to absorb water. Thus, old E85 is much worse than old gas. Given the average age of fuel in a Volt, E85 would be a disaster.

[firebirdbandit]

It also tends to get worse fuel economy. You shouldn't even use regular fuel in the Volt never mind E85. I think a better conversion would be a natural gas generator but I'm sure the price would go up.

[kgurnsey]

I'm not really concerned about the fuel going bad. I take weekend trips often, which is the reason for looking at a Volt in the first place. I'd rather be burning mostly renewable and domestic ethanol rather than gasoline when I travel, to compliment the renewable and domestic electrons I would be using during my commute.

Besides, though ethanol does have a greater affinity for water, calling it a "disaster" might be a bit hyperbolic.

I'm looking more at the feasibility, and anyone's experiences if they have tried a conversion.

-K

[kgurnsey]

It also tends to get worse fuel economy. You shouldn't even use regular fuel in the Volt never mind E85. I think a better conversion would be a natural gas generator but I'm sure the price would go up.

I'm willing to take the economy hit to drive on a domestic and renewable fuel. I've driven other vehicles on E85 (my current vehicle is flex fuel), so I'm familiar with the economy loss.

As for not using fuel in the Volt, I disagree. If you never use fuel, then I'd suggest getting a pure EV. You'd have less complexity and a longer EV range for starters. I'm looking at the Volt specifically because I need the added range often enough on weekends to proclude renting a car for those occasions.

Nat gas is nice and clean burning, but isn't as renewable (biogas is a small fraction and will likely remain so) and requires an entirely new fuel system. E85 is flexible, and uses the same fuel system as gas. I'm trying to minimize gas use in as much of my travels as possible, but still retain the gas functionality in a pinch.

-K

[MrEnergyCzar]

You're still using the same amount of oil with ethanol because it takes oil inputs to make the ethanol to the point where it's almost a net energy loser...

MrEnergyCzar

[emd]

i did a conversion from flex tec of brazil to a normal gas car (not a volt). car idled much smoother. performance was about the same. fuel economy went from 33 gas to 25 e85. converter cost $400. there's the facts.

[mbelverud]

Looking to do the same. I emailed Change2E85 and they told me this is the kit to get for the volt.

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Detail?no=103


I will be using E85 once I get a Volt in June. It's widely available in MN.

Also, the NREL showed a 2.3 to 1 energy conversion (2010 report) in the manufacture of ethanol from corn (2.3 BTU for every 1 BTU input including all energy need to grow, harvest, and transport). Only studies funded by oil companies (David Pimental, 1999, 2001) have shown negative energy or equivalent energy conversions.

http://www.nrel.gov/analysis/pdfs/doe-02-5025.pdf

[kgurnsey]

You're still using the same amount of oil with ethanol because it takes oil inputs to make the ethanol to the point where it's almost a net energy loser...

MrEnergyCzar

Good point, ethanol certainly isn't perfect. My perspective on this issue is a bit more long term. An industry needs support in order to attract and maintain investment. My support for corn based E85 has more to do with progressing towards Gen 2 and Gen 3 biofuels, which have potential to be less oil intensive than the current E85 that is available.

I would prefer to see pure EV technology advance to the point where I can drive all my miles on electrons, but think it's prudent to hedge towards a renewable and domestic transportation future with any and all reasonable options on the table. To me, the best options are advanced BEVs and advanced biofuels, or some combination thereof.

Bio-methanol fuel cells are an interesting twist...

-K

[kgurnsey]

Looking to do the same. I emailed Change2E85 and they told me this is the kit to get for the volt.

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Detail?no=103


I will be using E85 once I get a Volt in June. It's widely available in MN.

Also, the NREL showed a 1.6 to 1 energy conversion in the manufacture of ethanol from corn (1.6 BTU for every 1 BTU input including all energy need to grow, harvest, and transport). The number even neglected distillers grain, a high protein high fat animal feed byproduct. Only studies funded by oil companies have shown negative energy or equivalent energy conversions.

Awesome. Be sure to post your experiences!

-K