SAE Quick Charge Connector Go

[larry4pyro]

"SAE International's J1772 “combo connector,” which will allow for both slower ac charging and faster dc charging of plug-in vehicles using a single vehicle electrical inlet, gets its first North American public demo next week after months of internal testing by automakers.

The three major domestic automakers (Chrysler, Ford, General Motors) and the five major automakers from Germany (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Porsche, Volkswagen) will use the new connector—an evolution of the existing J1772 connector...."

http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/11005

Sorry for the crazy title, I'm posting from my IPad and hit submit by accident, now I can't seem to correct the title. Anyway, SAE have seemed to agree on a new standard for high power DC charging. The looser in this is the Japanese manufactures who are using a different standard.

[CarZin]

I like that NONE of the people signing onto this new standard are going to be producing pure electric vehicles in ANY substancial way. I dont know the pros/cons to ChADeMO, but I am trusting Nissan on this one, because they are betting the house on the Leaf. I don't trust ANY of those manufacturers to have 1/10th of what Nissan has on the road in 5 years, and these companies are single handedly holding up DC Fast Charge installations over this standards battle.

Personally, I hope Nissan forces the issue. They were the visionaries in mass adoption pure electric vehicles, and should ultimately get to lead the discussion. With California buckling into the CHADeMO arena soon, the 'SAE' adopters may be SOL.

[scottf200]

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread....ystem-at-EVS26

I believe what you are seeing there is the European version of the plug. That is the IEC 62196 Type 2 connector at the top

Some have stated there will be two version of the top half with the bottom being the "same" for DC. European - the IEC 62196 Type 2 and "USA/etc" - the J1772.
See:
IEC_62196-3_.E2.80.93_DC_Charging - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_621...93_DC_Charging
and
Combined_Charging_System - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_621...harging_System

Combined Charging System
While the target to have only one charging connector has been lost in that the world is split on their main grid system with Japan and North America to choose a single-phase connector on their 100-120/240 Volt grid (Type 1) while the rest of the world including China and Europe is opting for a connector with single-phase 230 Volt and three-phase 400 Volt grid access (Type 2). The SAE and ACEA are trying to avoid the situation for DC charging with a standardization that plans add DC wires to the existing AC connector types such that there is only one "global envelope" that fits all DC charging stations - for Type 2 the new housing is named Combo2.[31]

On the 15th International VDI-Congress of the Association of German Engineers the proposal of a "Combined Charging System" was unveiled on 12. October 2011 in Baden-Baden. Seven car makers (Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen) have agreed to introduce the Combined Charging System in mid-2012.[46][47] This defines a single connector pattern on the vehicle side that offers enough space for a Type 1 or Type 2 connector along with space for a two pin DC connector allowing up to 200 Ampere.

From articles yesterday.

Audi, BMW, Chrysler, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen have agreed to support a harmonized single-port fast charging approach – called DC Fast Charging with a Combined Charging System – for use on electric vehicles in Europe and the United States.

Live charging demonstrations will be conducted during the Electric Vehicle Symposium 26 (EVS26) May 6-9.

The combined charging system integrates one-phase AC-charging, fast three-phase AC-charging, DC-charging at home and ultra-fast DC-charging at public stations into one vehicle inlet. This will allow customers to charge at most existing charging stations regardless of power source and may speed more affordable adoption of a standardized infrastructure.

The International Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has chosen the Combined Charging System as the fast-charging methodology for a standard that incrementally extends the existing Type 1-based AC charging. The standard is to be officially published this summer. ACEA, the European association of vehicle manufacturers has also selected the Combined Charging System as its AC/DC charging interface for all new vehicle types in Europe beginning in 2017.

The charging system design was based on collaborative reviews and analysis of existing charging strategies, the ergonomics of the connector and preferences of U.S. and European customers. The system was developed for all international vehicle markets and creates a uniform standard with identical electrical systems, charge controllers, package dimensions and safety mechanisms.

The system maximizes capability for integration with future smart grid developments through common broadband communication methods regardless of the global location of the charging system. The combined charging approach will reduce development and infrastructure complexity, improve charging reliability, reduce the total cost-of-ownership for end customers and provide low maintenance costs.

Commercially available combined charging units are projected to be available later this year.

All committed OEMs have vehicles in development which will use the Combined Charging System.

The first vehicles to use this system will reach the market in 2013.

[CarZin]

It doesnt matter that they just have 'committed' development. They must produce them in enough numbers. None of these producers have committed to any significant production of any of these vehicles. You have the giant at the table, Nissan, selling 10s of thousands of these globally, and with all the manufacturers listed above for the new standard, they will likely sell less than 10k a year COMBINED. And you already have places like California that has committed to CHADeMO.

What is more ironic is that many of these manufacturers will ONLY be selling their electric cars in California, a state that has already selected a different standard for major roll out.

This makes no sense, except that it is a pissing match.

This is a good article on the issue of 'compliance cars', which the Spark belongs in.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-we-name-names

[DonC]

You have the giant at the table, Nissan, selling 10s of thousands of these globally, and with all the manufacturers listed above for the new standard, they will likely sell less than 10k a year COMBINED. And you already have places like California that has committed to CHADeMO.

It will be the standard. You can put a fork in CHAdeMO. Fast chargers are mostly interesting because they're such a great example of how you can't push on a string. Most people will be perfectly happy to charge at home rather than spend $.50/kWh for the privilege of sitting at a public charger for and hour. AFAIK no one has come up with a business case for public charging, and, in the absence of a business case, public DC charging isn't happening anytime soon. (I spent $800 for one and I haven't ever SEEN one).

At the moment there are only three companies that have a credible EV program: GM; Nissan; and BMW. Two of those and the rest of the "midgets" are going with the SAE standard. That leaves Nissan, but with sales of 370 units a month it would be 100 years before there would be a sufficient number of EVs on the road to matter.

Speaking of numbers, my guess is that about 5% of EVs would ever bother with a DC fast charge, assuming that it was reasonably priced at $.50/kWh. Given the low number of potential customers and the very high cost of installing and maintaining a fast charger, we're going to need a lot more, a whole lot more, EVs on the road than we have now before it makes any sense to roll these things out. Even then it will probably only pencil out in some limited spots like the LA airport.

At the end of the day EVs are not well suited for long trips, and efforts to use DC fast chargers to overcome this basic fact is rather like trying to come up with a magic screw that transforms a hammer into a screwdriver.

[kgurnsey]

With all due respect, DonC, I disagree. Public Level 2 charging is next to useless, because as you say most people who actually drive EVs charge almost exclusively at home. However, to say that EVs are not suited to long trips is misleading. A Tesla Model S with a 300 mile pack, and a reasonable network of 90kW chargers, will be a fine long distance car. As technology improves, specifically when 250 kW chargers hit the market for a reasonable price and battery prices become more reasonable for big packs (all things we know will happen over the next 5-10 years), EVs will make great long distance cars.

For the moment, even a Leaf with a network of 50 kW CHAdeMO (or J1772 DC) chargers means that someone can do trips beyond the 100 mile limit with ease. Might not be the best for a 500 mile trip yet, but for 150-300 miles, and a bit of patience, it's an option. Especially for an enthousiast or early adopter, which all Tesla, Leaf, and Volt owners are at the moment.

Right now, the Volt is the best long trip alternative in my mind, and a brilliant stepping stone that can successfully get rid of the majority of a persons gasoline use while retaining long distance functionality, but in 5 years? Might be a different story. Technology is moving faster than ever, and prices are dropping quickly. Level 2 home charging is great, and all that is likely ever needed if you don't think the EV will ever emerge from the role of city commuter, or that's all you will ever need it to be, but personally I'm thinking a bit bigger than that and DC fast charging is critical if EVs are to have a real shot at completely supplanting the ICE as the primary motive force for transportation.

-K

[nater]

How do you connect this thing to a Volt? The bottom part would hit...

Nate

[scottf200]

How do you connect this thing to a Volt? The bottom part would hit... Nate

Likely/Potentially you are joking <grin>.

Obviously you can't and with a ~12 kWh (10.4+overhead) charge they likely won't add the L3/DC J1772 COMBO to a EREV/PHEV vehicle.

This is for the BEV - Battery only Electric Vehicles.

Even when the Chevrolet SPARK is introduced with this port you can still hook up at home using the normal L2 240v J1772 (or L1 120v J1772).

[Dan & Nan]

With all due respect, DonC, I disagree. Public Level 2 charging is next to useless, because as you say most people who actually drive EVs charge almost exclusively at home.

Huh? L2 charging is GREAT I wish it was everywhere. Today I had lunch and added 10 miles to my range. Leaf owner did the same. How is that useless?
Volt & Leaf charging.jpg
Do you mean it's useless for long travel trips? If so, I'll agree that knowing there was a network of L2 chargers wouldn't make me want to drive a Leaf 600 miles if I was in a hurry, but for day to day use I'm glad L2 is out there.

[nater]

Likely/Potentially you are joking <grin>.

Obviously you can't and with a ~12 kWh (10.4+overhead) charge they likely won't add the L3/DC J1772 COMBO to a EREV/PHEV vehicle.

This is for the BEV - Battery only Electric Vehicles.

Even when the Chevrolet SPARK is introduced with this port you can still hook up at home using the normal L2 240v J1772 (or L1 120v J1772).

No, I mean, the DC part of the connector would hit the volt's body below the charge port...

Nate