The paranoid wack jobs have taken over; Volts to be banned in Arizona?

[jeo]

Stop the political nonsense please .. there are a lot of Republicans on this list you insult us all.

Bush signed the law that gave you a rebate...

I think the nation is tired of the BS from both extemes in thsi country.. get a life.

Ditto that.

[jeo]

So tell me ... How long must GM lose money on the Volt and how long do I have to shift some of my tax dollars to my neighbors so they can buy a new Volt or a Leaf? How about we let products live or die based on their merit and value rather than letting politicians decide and spend us all into oblivion in the process.

[flmark]

cnicholson, 'mirror'???

I did not say anything about the left, and in fact have real problems with Obama (whom I did not vote for) wasting all his political capital on an agenda (healthcare) that could quite possibly be tossed out by the Supreme Court. Something near and dear to this forum is the power grid, which needs real help. Obama could have created lots of jobs AND created a lasting material legacy by being to our power grid what Eisenhower was to the Interstate system. The system is dysfunctional and I certainly gave three cheers to Lieberman when he gave the proverbial finger to the Democrats and won reelection as an independent. Your 'mirror' comment makes no sense at all (and now you've said it twice). This forum is about something that allows us to be energy independent, export our goods, help the environment and put people back to work. What's not to like? It is ONLY the right wing which is so doggedly complaining about it, and oh, by the way, they do have something they doggedly are motivated by- and this TWENTY YEAR OLD non-issue shows that it is paranoia. Somebody is coming for their guns, their light bulbs, their hummers or whatever- even if nobody ACTUALLY is.

I've owned a gun since I was 16 and I never felt like lefties were trying to pry it from my hands. In fact, lefties and the desire for 'free range' meat now laud my hunting non-hormone injected meat instead of whining about animal rights like they did in the 70s (other than PETA of course, which I believe, stands for 'People Eating Tasty Animals'). I will be getting a trailer hitch installed on my Volt next week, for the primary purpose of hauling deer back home after hunting trips where I burn NO GAS. Even if 'you can't put a gun rack in a Volt', you can hook a cargo carrier on the back and bring home your deer harvest. That's okay, my guns will fit nicely inside the Volt in a case- I don't need to display them or whip them out (as if they are allowed to be loaded in the vehicle anyway). Way too much spin, yes, but MIRROR? Hardly!

[solar_dave]

So tell me ... How long must GM lose money on the Volt and how long do I have to shift some of my tax dollars to my neighbors so they can buy a new Volt or a Leaf? How about we let products live or die based on their merit and value rather than letting politicians decide and spend us all into oblivion in the process.

What tax dollars of yours are used? Those are my tax dollars in the tax credit. hmmm how much tax did you pay last year, something tells me you are in the 50% that paid none. Now that does impact my tax dollars.

[mikeg3]

So tell me ... How long must GM lose money on the Volt and how long do I have to shift some of my tax dollars to my neighbors so they can buy a new Volt or a Leaf? How about we let products live or die based on their merit and value rather than letting politicians decide and spend us all into oblivion in the process.

Does it cost more to fight terrorism by sending soldiers halfway around the world or by cutting off their oil money here at home?

[flmark]

jeo: 'How about we let products live or die based on their merit and value rather than letting politicians decide and spend us all into oblivion in the process'

Only the truly naive, or truly and hopelessly selfish, believe that the free market cures all problems. Which kind of tablet computer wins is based on free market. But you can discuss MILLIONS of things where free market cannot work independent of outside influence to come to the best conclusion. Early railways were PURPOSEFULLY established with different gages because it was in the owner's best interest to not be compatible with competitors. The free market didn't give us our current communications freedoms- divestiture of AT&T by the government did. Do you recall when we couldn't even own our own phones? No such thing as a free market there. And what about environmental impact- where is that in the free market equation? It is much cheaper to dump your waste into a stream than treat it responsibly. Human beings are inherently SELFISH, and as long as altruism is a rare commodity, the government is sometimes necessary to interfere for the greater good- all paranoia aside.

[cnicholson]

cnicholson, 'mirror'???

You were criticizing the extreme members/positions of the some members of the GOP and in so doing, you used extreme and hyperbolic rhetoric. You said "This insanity must end. We MUST vote out every Republican until this party either ceases to exist or modifies its paranoid agenda."

The mirror should help you reflect on the irony of railing against extremism with extremism.... That's all.

[flmark]

Myself:'"This insanity must end. We MUST vote out every Republican until this party either ceases to exist or modifies its paranoid agenda."

Yes, cnicholson, this is an extreme statement, but the actions that require the most extreme measures are the ones that take away our freedoms. If you look at the actions of right wingers in power, we seem to be taking steps backward in freedoms. You could easily make a case that Obamacare is about reduction of freedoms- and I am not for Obamacare. However, (right wing) state legislators across this country push moral issues of their own choice against the freedoms of others. I laugh at the satire of Colbert every night, but sometimes the jokes are no laughing matter- like a couple nights ago when he discussed how some legislators are actually trying to push their agenda that life begins BEFORE conception. Colbert joked about how his testicles therefore contributed to the whole human rights thing since laws of such nature would now impose on the male genitalia. OMG. Yes, I discuss the extreme of getting rid of every one of them because they are not responding to the ballot box. Only about 5% of the German population were members of the Nazi party, yet we see what a small, but ravenous, group can do to the majority. Extremist? I urge you to reread the article and think about the implications of what Mr Campbell had to say. Yes, the opposition party will always take an alarmist position, but the concept is clear. Arizona's right wing wants to take a stance against sustainable living. CFL's (or the Volt) becoming illegal?. No, I don't believe that will happen, but if public funding is to be spent on something, this legislation makes it clear that the NON sustainable agenda is where those funds will be spent.

Frankly, I am shocked at all the negative response I got to this posting in a VOLT FORUM!!! Just a few weeks ago, it was the GOP who was bashing the Volt in a CONGRESSIONAL FARCE of a hearing with these Volts that are exploding everywhere. Did ANY of you who criticized this posting watch that ENTIRE hearing? Well, I did. Every GOP idiot kept spewing venom in sequentially more grandiose fashion. Issa said that nobody wants these cars. My discussion is about the extrapolation from this idiotic comment to the GOP vision (or lack of) at large. Stop thinking in lock step because you grew up Republican. The Reagan days are gone! The two party system is running out of its checks and balances because the 'Conservative' party is now taking a stance purely on GREED (bought and paid for with oil money) instead of what it USED to stand for - American INDEPENDENCE, EXPORTS and FREEDOM...to choose your own vehicle- they didn't have a hearing about the TENS OF THOUSANDS of gas car fires every month- they had a hearing about ONE car- the car WE HERE IN THIS FORUM are addicted to.....or so I thought.

[mikeg3]

The Arizona bill is clearly unconstitutional because the federal government has exclusive authority over foreign policy.

Congress, not the Arizona legislature, has the authority to override executive orders.

When I moved to Texas, I was surprised to learn that our legislature only meets for a few months every other year. Now I think that Arizona, for example, should consider the Texas model. Those legislators have too much time on their hands.

[cnicholson]

The Arizona bill is clearly unconstitutional because the federal government has exclusive authority over foreign policy.

Umm, but non binding statements don't bind any federal gov't agency. I don't think the Supremacy Clause is implicated by a state saying "The Feds have made non binding statements on XYZ. Just to be clear, those statements DEFINITELY don't bind us-- in fact, we may do the opposite."

Caveat: I haven't read the bill. Just reacting the news summary. In any case, the first impression you get is that it is a publicity stunt. It seems to be working.