LEAF owner thinking of adding a Volt to the garage

[shrink]

Hi all -

I have been a proud LEAF owner since 8/2011. I absolutely love that car. We have commutes well within the car's range, have PV solar panels, and we just love making our own "fuel." We had two older ICE cars in the household, a 2003 Acura RSX which just hit 200K miles and a 2003 Honda Civic. We sold the Civic and are looking for a range car with fewer miles than that RSX.

To our pleasant surprise, we have actually found the LEAF meets over 90% of our driving needs. My girlfriend uses it for a 25-mile RT commute to work and I mostly bike to work. The LEAF also takes us just about wherever we need to go for our weeknight and weekend driving. It fits our lifestyle very well. However, the LEAF certainly couldn't make it when we went from Phoenix to Tucson and back last weekend, so we still need a vehicle for range.

I am really excited about the Volt because with our typical driving it seems with the estimated 35 mile range (the advertised 100 mile range on the LEAF actually gets about 70 miles on a 100% charge) we can still be on electricity most of our driving. I got an e-mail from PlugShare about the 0% financing offer so I'm going to check out the Volt this weekend.

I do have a few questions (in no particular order):

1. How long does it take to charge at L1 and at L2? We are in the EV Project and have a Blink charger in the garage, so if we get a Volt, one of the cars will charge at L2 and the other at L1. Does the Volt have an L3 quick charge option?

2. What kind of actual range are you getting out of the battery? Being an EV driver, I know that's hard to answer considering all the factors involved (speed, incline/decline, temperature, etc.), but in your "typical daily driving" how far are you getting on the battery?

3. What is maintenance like for the Volt? Since there is no engine in the LEAF, it's pretty simple - tire rotations every 7500K, check the brake fluid, and change the air filter + an annual battery inspection. No oil changes! What maintenance is needed on the Volt's gas generator?

4. Does the Volt have regenerative braking like the Prius and LEAF?

5. Nissan actually recommends the LEAF be charged only to 80% most of the time to extend battery life. Does the Volt have a similar recommendation?

6. The back seats look a little small to me. Have you all found the back seat spacious enough to sit adults up to 6' comfortably?

7. The trunk space also seems a little small, although I will be better able to judge when I look at one more closely this weekend. Have you been satisfied with the trunk capacity?

8. How does the climate control work? The LEAF uses heat coils, powered by the electric motor, for heat since there is no engine. I have found the heat seems to sap the battery much faster, even in Phoenix, than A/C. Does the Volt use a similar mechanism?

9. Can you pre-cool or pre-heat the car? In the hot Phoenix summers, we pre cool the LEAF while sitting in the garage using electricity from the grid while plugged in before we start driving. The car can run in the garage since there are no emissions. Can you do the same with the Volt? I imagine the gas generator has emissions, but is that even running if you pre-cool or preheat the car while plugged in?

10. How does the car drive? The LEAF is zippy off the line with the electric motor instant torque and all, but by no means is it fast. Handling also feels like you're on rails. I admit I miss the speed and handling of my old Honda S2000, but I'm older now (and presumably more mature) and much more into practicality than raw performance. That said, is the Volt fun to drive? I imagine a 0-60 in the 9-10 second range? Is the handling soft and comfortable or a little more crisp and on the sporty side? The styling is much more sportier and aggressive than the odd-shaped, egg-looking LEAF. Does is it drive that way, too?

11. Are the gas requirements 87 or premium?

12. Anyone have any major or minor complaints about the car they'd be willing share?

13. Any suggested options to skip or include? One thing with the LEAF is that I have found I absolutely love the back-up camera when I didn't think I'd have any need for it, but I find the solar panel, which I really wanted, on the rear spoiler useless and gimmicky. Are you satisfied with the quality of the leather seats if you have that option?

Sorry for the long first post. I'm sure I'll have a better sense of things once I check one out in person this weekend. I was just interested in getting feedback from actual owners.

We are also considering a Lexus CT hybrid and Plug-in Prius.

Thanks for reading and I appreciate the feedback.

[emd]

1 L1 takes about 8 hours and L2 takes a little over 3 hours. no L3 available on a volt.

2 42 miles when temps above 55f. 25 miles at 5f.

3 oil changes when the car tells you. air filter at 50k. plugs at 100k.

4 yes has regen by using low. shifter is less fiddly and more normal than leaf or prius.

5 no the volt figures that by itself.

6 low roof. better bring your intended 6' adult with you to the chevy dealer.

7 no trunk. hatchback. have to remove seat bottoms and seatbacks fold flat. lots of usable cargo room.

8 similar plus the gas engine heats the water. heater also drains battery when on electric. under 25f gas engine will cycle on and off both to warm the battery and provide cabin heat. under that temp gm figured that the range would be nil. also no heated steering wheel available in a volt.

9 yes as lons as it's charged, or plugged in and above 30f.

10 see bmw 3 series.

11 premium.

12 needs better seats for long trips. needs more basic center stack controls. needs real spare tire or at least a place for it. poor rear vision ie large blind spot.

13 the leather option is the most worthwhile-cheap at $1500- heated- thick durable american leather- not cheap thin europe or jap leather so you won't have to worry about passengers wardrobes. backup cam is ok at $600. nav is worthless.

for your uses forget the pip at 13 miles and 59 mph max. just get the standard one (iv) if you go that route or any other hybrid.

[shrink]

That was very helpful and informative. Thanks!

[hporcher]

1. I'm currently charging via L1 only. 8 - 10 hours.

2. 42 - 46. Mix of arterial and highway. Current tempatures in the 32 - 60f range. Haven't driven in a winter yet.

3. Oil changes atleast every 2 years depending on ICE usage.

4. Yes. I find the brakes to be better than our 2005 Prius.

5. No, Volt design automatically compensates for battery charge %.

6. I'm 5' 11" with long torso. Back seats comfortable for me.

7. Trunk capacity OK. Not any different than any other hatchback we've owned.

8. In cold weather ICE will cycle on to heat cabin and battery. Otherwise, electric power is used which reduces range.

9. Preheat or Precool capability available. So far haven't had to do either.

10. I currently own a 2000 S2000 (which is my garage queen). Not many vehicles will match the driving experience or handling of it. The Volt is fun to drive on a daily basis. Much more so then the 2005 Prius we also own. Much quieter and more solid feeling than the Prius. The Prius has been a great car from a gas saving point of view but I hate driving it. Numb steering and brakes. An appliance with no soul.

11. premium, I haven't used any yet. With the ICE on board I don't think about how far I'm going to drive in a given day or on the weekend.

12. No major complaints. The center console is goofy but not objectionable. The interior materials are good. Fit and finish is great. This is the first American car I've owned and I find fit and finish comparable to anything I've looked at.

13. I like the backup camera and park assist. Like the Prius rear viaibility is poor. I find the heated leather seats firm and comfortable. The polished wheels aren't anything special. Don't have the nav or premium sound. If I need nav I bring a Garmin. The standard sound system works for me.

Check out www.voltstats.net for real world usage and fuel economy.

[Bob_Livonia]

.

3 oil changes when the car tells you. air filter at 50k. plugs at 100k.

4 yes has regen by using low. shifter is less fiddly and more normal than leaf or prius.


7 no trunk. hatchback. have to remove seat bottoms and seatbacks fold flat. lots of usable cargo room.


9 yes as lons as it's charged, or plugged in and above 30f.


12 needs better seats for long trips. needs more basic center stack controls. needs real spare tire or at least a place for it. poor rear vision ie large blind spot.

13 . nav is worthless.

#3. I have 27,483 trouble-free miles on my Volt, of which 11,502 have been pure electric (charge depleting - CD). I make a lot of long trips. I still have 27% engine oil life left, and the GM oil life algorithm is very robust. Most drivers will hneed an oil change every 2 years.
#4. emd's response (and others who are "Low addicts" is a huge misconception! You also get regenerative braking in Drive (not L) using the brake pedal, where it is seamlessly blended in by the brake controller (similar to the Leaf and Prius), and you even get regen coasting (in D it feels like a normal car, rather getting the heavy deceleration whenever you let off the accelerator when in L). Folks, the brake pedal, not the shift lever says "Voltec", and there is a reason!
#7. The hatchback, with the rear seats folded down had plenty of room when my wife and I made the 850 mile trip to Ocean Isle Beach NC, and we took 2 folding lounge chairs and all the stuff we needed for a week. If I needed more than that, I would have taken my Yukon XL and I could have taken half of my house's furnishings. I am 6 feet tall and I have sat in the back seat trying it out; I have taken 150 mile trips with 2 normal size passengers in the back - I had to move the front seats forward a bit, but I was still comfortable driving.
#9. The Volt is able to pre-condition the cabin, either plugged in or not at any temperature. It can be started either by the remote or the OnStar smart phone app. I think what emd means by 30F (it works at all temperatures) is that the engine can start if below 25F for additional heat, even if fully charged. GM recommends having the garage door open when pre-conditioning (they are lawyer-driven, like most companies), but I pre-condition without bothering to open the garage door, unless it is very cold outside (I have a level 2 charger in my garage, so starting due to low battery is not a concern).
#9. See #7. Like the Leaf, the Volt does not have a spare, and I wouldn't take up storage space having a potential projectile back there in the event of a crash. There is a pump with sealer, and alongside the road in the rain at night, I would much rather use that than jacking up the car - with the low clearance, I would be laying flat on the ground positioning the jack. There is a thread of an owner (not me) who drove from Myrtle Beach SC to Michigan (850 miles) on the sealer at normal speeds because he didn't want to stop and lose time getting the tire repaired.
#13. emd is very subjective and that is his opinion. I love the navigation system, especially the real-time traffic display (extra cost with Sirius-XM subscription) that has saved me a lot of time. I always use it to keep track of the distance remaining, but I obviously have much less range anxiety than if I had a Leaf (okay, I like to plan the trips to avoid using gas if I can) Shrink is right about the solar panel on the spoiler being useless and gimmicky. When I was at GM, we looked at a solar panel for the roof, and concluded that due to the inherent limitations of the sun's energy, even at 100% efficiency, you would need to be pulling a semi-trailer with a solar panel on top to get enough energy to do anything useful.

I am among the 93% of Volt owners who love their Volt.

[BAZINGA]

I can't answer all your questions because I'm typing this while having breakfast at a hotel before we had to her folks house. We just went 325 miles in our Volt. I used Mountain Mode and while not able to charge until we get to their house it left me 12 EV miles. I got 39 MPG on the ICE, the DIC computer calculated 37. I ran about 150 on a two lane winding/twisting road with what appears to be abou 1000 feet in elevation changes. The Volt was a blast, I was taking corners 15 to 20 miles over the posted limit. It's a frigging spots sedan. Some of the roads here in Arkansas are really bad and the car is bank vault tight.

BTW GM still has ZERO % until April 30th.

I'll post up a complete road trip report when we get back home on Tues. I calculate 800 miles R/T.

The Volt has been a blast to drive and no range anxiety.

[Koz]

#5 Funny you should mention the 80% recommendation for charging the Leaf. I assumed this were the case but hadn't read this before. So, does that mean the everyday range in moderate weather is more like 55 miles? The Volt is different in that they only allow roughly a 65% charge window. There are situations (e.g. steep incline with consistent load above 50kw in CS mode) where the lower buffer is dipped into but only down to a certain point. The upper charge limit is fixed to about 85%. GM's battery warranty is a little different in that they warranty energy storage while Nissan warrants power capability.

#9 As others say, the Volt can pre-condition but with caveats. If you want to precondition with heat, I believe you need to be plugged into 240V or judiciously time the preheating with 120v. I've read that at 120v power will be drawn from the battery so you need to preheat early enough to leave some time to recharge the battery use if you want to leave with a full battery.

[tboult]

#1 I only charge on 120v.. from empty to full is 8-9 hours. I like the 8 or 12 amp choice as many times on the road when I charged 12 would pop the breaker or not be viable).

#2: Owned since 8/11 Fair weather I average 42-47 depend on how much highway I do. Winter 35-43 depending on temp. I strongly recommend you check out voltstats.net they have hundreds of users and you can see their driving habits in some nice charts.




#8 AC is normal and if on eco only a small impact on range. Heat is electric that heats fluids that can then circulate for a while. If its very cold (or if the ice runs because you are taking it on long trips) then heat is from the ICE. If its cold (<25F) you get engine-running-due-to-low-temp which provides heat. (great detailed thread http://gm-volt.com/2010/12/09/the-ch...ems-explained/ http://gm-volt.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-5624.html)

-- get the heated seats+leather.. its actually about all I use in Colorado springs winters. (maybe why my winter range is better than many).

#9 yes and yes, even on 120v you can preheat (whole threads here on that too, with power measurements.. 15-20min before you leave you remote start (via fob, phone or laptop). Can do it twice.

#10 drives very very well.. much better than a prius or civic. Maybe not a S2000, but its a lot of fun, sticks like glue and very smooth and quite.

#11 Premium but will run on regular in a pinch. My long trip MPG is 38-40. depending on speed, temps and terrain.

Not a single problem with the car. I've hauled lots of stuff (50 units 40x60 foam board).

Camera is nice, Bose sound is (for me) great. nav is probably not worth the added cost its a fine system but not $1000 or whatever it was. I went crystal red but knew that is what I wanted. Absolutely want heated seats (which in 2011 required leather.. but now that I have the leather I'm glad I did that too).



There are ton's of thread here.. people who buy it absolutely love it. When you test drive make sure you try sport mode, and sport+L.
Also call and make sure its charged.. and if the still don't have it charge, put it in mountain mode while you walk around a bit or talk about price. Mountain mode will charge enough to give you 14 miles of EV driving in 15 mins.. Then do your test drive.

[Bob_Livonia]

We just went 325 miles in our Volt. I used Mountain Mode and while not able to charge until we get to their house it left me 12 EV miles. I got 39 MPG on the ICE, the DIC computer calculated 37.

That is nice (holding back EV miles for later, if desired), but it is completely unnecessary. You just go, and add gas when needed, and plug in when able. I drove 850 miles in one day, starting with a full battery charge, but that was unnecessary and became insignificant in the big picture that day. But with 11,502 EV miles over the past year, they do add up daily at chunks of 10 to 60 miles at a time (I sometimes charge during the day).

[ClarksonCote]

I can't answer all your questions because I'm typing this while having breakfast at a hotel before we had to her folks house. We just went 325 miles in our Volt. I used Mountain Mode and while not able to charge until we get to their house it left me 12 EV miles. I got 39 MPG on the ICE, the DIC computer calculated 37.

just a thought, but if you used mountain mode and then ended your trip with 12 EV miles left, that's 12 more miles you could have driven gas free has mountain mode not been used. I know that mountain mode and the highly anticipated hold mode can be nice, but if you don't end your trip with an empty battery, you're not maximizing gas savings.