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6.6 kW charger for 2013 VOLT like the 2013 Nissan LEAF or Focus EV??

30K views 42 replies 24 participants last post by  kgurnsey 
#1 ·
Nissan has confirmed that the 2013 LEAF will have a 6.6 kW on board charger.

http://www.autotrader.com/research/article/car-news/110309/nissan-updates-leaf-for-2012-2013.jsp

That means that the 2013 Leaf will charge in only 3.5-4 hours when empty compared to the current Leaf which requires 7-8 hours to charge completely from a level 2 charger.

I'm wondering if the VOLT will also have a 6.6 kW charger in the 2013 model. Although not as essential as in an all electric car, that would be a nice feature to have. 2 hours or less would be needed to fully charge !! Since the goal is to use the least oil as possible, that would be an advantage ...

Anyone as any inside information about that?

Sly Land vehicle Vehicle Car Hatchback Nissan leaf
 
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#2 ·
I"m going to speculate that it isn't likely. Nissan had a lot of pressure to do it because of the FFE, and it also matters because some places have off peak power for six hours a day - meaning that you might not be able to fully charge off peak if you drove a lot.

I don't feel like the difference between 4 hours and 2 hours is of much value to anyone (could be wrong,) and the Volt still has no real competition to drive them IMHO.
 
#7 ·
You're right saghost ... competition will be the main motivation, does anyone know if the Ford C-Max Energi /Fusion Energi will come with a 3.3 kW charger or 6.6 kW ??

Since the Focus is already coming with a 6.6 kW charger, maybe that they will make it a standard??
 
#3 ·
I really doubt GM would change to the 6.6 kW charger for 2013. Probably Volt 2.0.

Personally, I would love it it they did! Or even offer it as dealer upgrade option for older Volts. Could you imagine going out to lunch or dinner with a restaurant/store that has an EVSE and getting a 50% charge during the hour!
 
#4 ·
to be honest, I like the charger right where it is. I use time of use with demand. That means there is a component of the bill that takes the most energy used during a 15 minute period and multiplies it towards a rate (~$3.50-$5 depending on the season). The current charger at 240V has raised my demand factor by about 1. No biggie. This means I can still charge it during the peak hours, and not hurt myself much. If I had a charger that increased that, it would start to negate the 'D' part of TOU. I think 3.5 hours is more than enough for most of us. I normally can charge for 1.5 hours and have enough range to go on a quick errand.
 
#5 ·
The point is, even if your onboard charger is at 6.6 kW, your 240V will still be at 3.3 kW, therefore it will have no impact on your TOU billing.

The advantage to have a 6.6 kW charger in the Volt is for the public charging stations, like mentioned by MTN Ranger ...
 
#6 ·
I agree with Walter. Higher voltages aren't good for a battery, and going to 6.6 kW charging won't be of any value for the Volt. I don't even use 3.3 kW charging as it is -- I just use 120v. Then again maybe I'm not representative since, as a Leaf owner, I don't think 6.6 kW charging for the Leaf is necessary. If you charge at home your car is going to be sitting for 8+ hours. It's not going anywhere so what's the rush?

I think that the charge times are misleading. They always presume that you need to fully charge the battery. But is that realistic? I don't run the Leaf down to zero charge very often. Maybe a couple of times a year. Since most days I only need to replenish 60% of the battery, the 6-8 hour charge is really more like a 4-5 hour charge. Plenty of time for that when I take my Zs.

DC fast charging is something different. That I get.
 
#18 ·
I agree with Walter. Higher voltages aren't good for a battery, and going to 6.6 kW charging won't be of any value for the Volt. I don't even use 3.3 kW charging as it is -- I just use 120v.
First off, there's no voltage difference between 6.6kW charging and 3.3kW charging. They're both 240V(ish). If anything, the voltage is lower at 6.6kW because of voltage drop. What changes between the two is the amount of current.

In any case, any charge rate 16kW (1C) or less isn't likely to harm the battery any more than charging at 1.44kW (.09C) is.
 
#10 ·
While not everyone needs or wants 2 hour charging, it goes a long way towards combating the "it takes forever to charge an EV" complaint. GM could offer the 6.6kW charger as an option, that would also be a good solution. For those that want to charge slow, just have a setting for different charge rates on the charge setup screen.

6.6kW will not "hurt" the battery like a Chademo 480V charge would. Heck, Telsa is going to 20kW on the Model S (3 times higher than 6.6kW, and that's not even their super charger).
 
#11 ·
What is really needed, and I've been ragging about all along, is a controllable variable rate charge. For you guys with TOU, you could go as fast as possible during the cheap hours, then throttle back if you still needed more charge. The spec supports this, but no charging stations do, and that's silly because all it requires is a way to change the pulse width on the pilot signal. The 120v one can do this, but only while the car is unplugged, which give me the ????? reaction, frankly, and it's a pain to have to go out and do it as the sun comes and goes here.

I just got a level II...it's worse on solar being not adjustable. But I also got a raw high quality EVSE cord, and will be making my own EVSE station to handle this, which will be able to monitor my solar system and adapt accordingly. I'd suppose some others here might have some use for such a thing with a timer function instead? Once it's computer controlled, it's only a question of what you want.
 
#16 ·
they only barely mentioned that the level 3 charger is 440 volts. it is also 3 phase. now lets see how many homes in the US are wired for that industrial grade of electric supply. what is the real cost of that fancy charger when my house will need a commercial grade rewire upgrade to even use it. this might be great for in the field (power by the hour for profit) charge points, but will not fly with in home chargers.
 
#20 ·
A 240V 6.6kW onboard charger while faster (esp for daytime opportunity charging) would likely just be an unneccesary expense for most Volt owners. The majority of people are charging overnight and cutting the charge time from 4 hours to less than 2 isnt really an important consideration. (especially so for the range-etended Volt of course)

Also keep in mind these EVSEs will likely be rated for the full Level 2 specification (7.2kW max) and therefore will require a 240V circuit that is supplied by a 40-60A service that will be quite an expensive upgrade for most homeowners.This is something that is often seen as a hidden cost factor of EVs that can hinder mass appeal and adoption. (but of course you could still use a less expensive 120V option)

Hwever there is some indication that the up-coming Spark EV will be capable of full Level 2 charging rates.

WopOnTour
 
#24 ·
Also keep in mind these EVSEs will likely be rated for the full Level 2 specification (7.2kW max) and therefore will require a 240V circuit that is supplied by a 40-60A service that will be quite an expensive upgrade for most homeowners.
A 7.2kW EVSE means 30A@240V. At 40 amp breaker can service a 32 amp EVSE, so there's no need for 60 amp service. I agree that even a 40 amp breaker may require an expensive upgrade, so I think all 240V EVSEs should have a strapping option to offer a 16 amp charge rate (3.5kW-3.8kW, depending on line voltage). For an EVSE capable of 30 amps, the strapping option shouldn't add any significant cost.

You don't NEED a 6.6 kw charger on a Volt. The Leaf does.
Well, Nissan didn't initially think so... So much for their marketing analysis!

Lastly... Charging the battery any faster will reduce the battery life significantly.
Do you have a source to support that statement?

I've never heard of a Li-Ion type battery that suffers degradation with any charging at 1C or less. In the Volt's case the difference between 3.3kW and 7.2kW is .2C to .45C (and 120V charging is at or less than .09C). Sure, if you tried to cram 30kW into it to charge (1.8C) you might start to see a degradation over time. But remember the car's perfectly happy to cram nearly 4C into the battery during regen, and that's the equivalent of over 250A@240V!
 
#21 ·
You don't NEED a 6.6 kw charger on a Volt. The Leaf does. When a Leaf battery runs down you can't go anywhere until you recharge. The Volt keeps driving on ICE. With the standard 3.3 Kw charger in the Volt you can recharge in 4 hours. That's fast enough.

Also... the Leaf's battery is 24 kWH. The Volt's battery is 10 kWH. The Nissan Leaf charging at 6.6 kw takes about the same time to charge a Volt at 3.3 kw.

Lastly... Charging the battery any faster will reduce the battery life significantly.
 
#22 ·
Also... the Leaf's battery is 24 kWH. The Volt's battery is 10 kWH. The Nissan Leaf charging at 6.6 kw takes about the same time to charge a Volt at 3.3 kw.
This is a mismatched set of numbers. In terms of total capacity, the Volt is 16 kWh and the Leaf 24. In terms of usable capacity, the Volt is 10.6 and the Leaf 21 - GM holds a lot more margin for longevity.
 
#23 ·
I'm sure in like 10 years we will laugh at these low amperage figures just like when MB's got taken over by GB's and now TB's are the norm when talked about on new drives. Who would have thought back in the late 80's when my company bought a server with a "wopping" 1 Gig drive, that it would be laughed at soon after.

This is the main reason I'm looking to purchase the GE Wattstation. I figure if it's overkill now, blink (not the blink charger btw) and it will be maybe norm at best in a couple of years. The SPX L2 charger will do for now and has a great price point (comparatively speaking) but will be in the junk yard too soon for what vision I have for this soon to be rapid moving technology... but no reason not to buy one if you want one... heck I have a ton of outdated HD's in the junkyard as I speak and I still buy the newer versions (bigger/faster) which will probably be there also soon enough!

In this world we live in the "bigger/faster" techie-stuff wise is always better, period. As long as it doesn't hurt the batts or cars themselves, I'm all for it :)
 
#33 ·
I'm throwing my hat in with both MTN Ranger and DCFusor. I want to charge as fast as possible, so i can achieve a serious range extension over something as short as lunch, plus I want to choose if I want that range extension quickly or slowly. It's all about use-case, and all of us have different one's, hence the difficulty for GM of choosing a solution that appeals to 'most' of it's buying audience.

My use cases are at least two:

1) charge while in the office, at lunch, or a quick stop (maybe shopping), where I was as much range put back on the battery as I can get. A full charge would be great if it's possible, but if not then I'll take as quickly as I can get.
2) charge while at home overnight, where I want to use the full 8 hours it's sitting on the plug and I don't much care how quickly it's done.

While I like the way the Volt has three charging choices when plugged in, I think there's opportunity here when higher level charging is available to extend those options so you can choose what you want to do when you plug-in.
 
#34 ·
Can't hurt to expand the capacity of the charger along with monitoring that takes battery temp etc. into consideration to provide for dynamic charging. 6.6kw would be much better, since it would expand the number of useful charge places (you might spend 2h at a mall or movie to get a useful charge, but you'd spend 1h at a lot more places) for public chargers. Also, while a 50A circuit may be uncommon for a home, it's not unheard of, especially for those with home garages and welding gear. 30A is even more common, for larger appliances, and in my situation I have an unused 30A dedicated dryer circuit (that I don't use, as I currently do most of my charging at subsidized public stations) which would benefit from a 24A-capable charging solution.

HOWEVER.. How certain is it that public charge stations have 6.6kw? I wouldn't be surprised if some installs were cheaped out to max at 3.3kw..
 
#35 ·
Can't hurt to expand the capacity of the charger along with monitoring that takes battery temp etc. into consideration to provide for dynamic charging.

HOWEVER.. How certain is it that public charge stations have 6.6kw? I wouldn't be surprised if some installs were cheaped out to max at 3.3kw..
Around the Chicago burbs, most of the chargers are 6KW+ capable. However, this mary vary by geographic region.

I would love to have a higher current charger in the Volt for faster "opportunity" charging. I would certainly entertain the idea of a faster charger in the next gen Volt.
However, I have to keep reminding myself that I have a backup gas generator. :)
 
#36 ·
Our salesman said the Volt was capable of next generation charging. Hopefully he was telling us the truth and GM rolls out a conversion (either free or subsidized).
 
#38 ·
Some people consider L2 to be "next gen" when compared to the old charging stations from the 90's. True next gen L3 is not available yet (specs are not finalized).
 
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