Philadelphia Auto Show thoughts...

[saghost]

I'm thinking this is the right forum, but I'm not quite sure. I went to the Philadelphia Auto Show today, and wanted to share some thoughts from that experience...

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Saw this as soon as I got off the elevator in the parking garage. Philly Car Share (distributed automated rent a car by the hour company) has apparently adopted the Volt, and had this beautiful Crystal Red one sitting right where most of the show traffic would walk past it. Assuming they also outfit some of their "pods" (groups of reserved places for the car share cars) with Level 2 chargers, this seems like a great match to me.

Most of the electrics and hybrids were in attendance - Fisker even brought two Karma's, though the were roped off. (It looks like the GM 2 liter is aligned longitudinally - not what I would have guessed.) No sign of VIA, though, and the lone C-Max Energi was locked up tight.

The show definitely shrunk from the last time I went (2 years ago?) - it's on maybe half the floor space, with all of the manufacturers in one big hall.

I've always felt the Volt's tight interior was the biggest challenge (along with large blindspots) - I barely fit behind me (that is, in the back seat with the driver's seat set where I'd want it.) To my surprise, only the Leaf was any better. The Leaf's trunk is smallish and awkwardly shaped - the charger hump means folding the seats won't be nearly as effective as on the Volt. Beyond that, though, I liked the interior space. The instrument panel was nicely laid out and informative (though I gather the range meter isn't terribly trustworthy.) Personally, I still think the exterior is ugly.

Most of the others were worse - very few hybrids have any rear seat headroom at all (including the Volt, which at least benefits from extra space under the hatch itself.) Even the Prius V surprised me with how little space it seemed to have - driven largely by a higher rear floor I think. Actually, the other car that came close to being comfortable in the front and back seats was the MiEV. It's tiny, and didn't impress me with its build quality (seemed like lots of things were waiting to break,) but the front and rear seat head and leg room were surprisingly large.

I was also surprised by how different the Delta 2 siblings are from one another. I actually don't fit behind me in the Cruze - with the front seat set to my tastes, the rear leg room isn't enough to fit my thighs between front seat back and rear seat back. I did immediately notice the additional headroom in front on the Cruze (not surprising - I think the specs say it is two inches taller.) The back seat headroom is marginally worse than the Volt - about as bad, but without the hatch space at the rear. The Verano back seat I did fit in (similar limited headroom,) and I liked the interior decor. The Buick's 2.4L barely fits in the engine compartment, where the Cruze's 1.4L turbo looks lost in the same space. I'll be very interested to see what GM dreams up for the (hopefully inevitable) Buick Electra when it shows up.

[quartzav]

Have you tried to recline the rear seat in Prius V to see if it improves rear room for you? I found it to be actually not that much less than my X5. Either that or maybe I am too small of a frame...

[Steverino]

I don't often find myself sitting behind myself. Mostly there is only one of me and 99.9999% of the time that me is in front

[saghost]

I don't often find myself sitting behind myself. Mostly there is only one of me and 99.9999% of the time that me is in front

You don't do the police academy/hightower thing and take the front seat out and drive from the back?

Seriously, I use it as a way to judge seat space - most cars can be so different depending on where the front seats are.

Quartzav, the rear seats in the V recline? I didn't try that - most cars don't, and the lever didn't jump out at me.

[quartzav]

I remember that when I test drove it at my local dealer one time. That may potentially increase shoulder room I presume

[bonaire]

I was going to write a thread under this title but see one already exists

To add:
I did the test ride-in a Prius V and felt it was "ok" and a little larger visibly than a Prius. But nothing much to write home about. The Hybrid Camry they had running there indoors was using the engine for propulsion

Saw the Ford CMax Energi there. Not horrible, not wonderful, Leaf-sized EREV. May do well if priced right. Couldn't sit inside or see much but it looked like a driveable unit. People had no idea what it was and nobody there to talk to about it. Mitsubishi rep there actually know a good amount about the car and people's desires to get into EVs. There was a Volvo C30 Electric there. No info available that I could see. Chevy had a Spark there (not EV). Tiny little car.

Nissan Leaf guy who gave a mic'd speach indicated the Leaf's 100 miles of AER... I mentioned to him that PA will probably be a slow EV rollout state due to no TOU electric rates and .18/kWh costs. But the state rebate may help. He answered other questions about charging stations and how prevalent they will be. No comment on "upcharging" which will be the bane of charging stations when places charge $1.00/hour or more making cost per mile jump up much higher than gasoline cars.

The Fisker guy had two Karmas. Was from the dealership in delaware. All sorts of talk around it with people not knowing anything about it or knowing incorrect things about it. One guy said the recall had to do with its bad EPA numbers. Others I overhead said "this car is made in Delaware!" (by who, elves?)

Memorable item from the Ford area was the Escape Hybrid. Atkinson engine. Needs to go full EREV to be something I'd consider. This SUV style would be a boon for anyone doing a sub $40K EREV SUV by 2015.

Opulence area was (as usual) F.C. Kerbec's supercars selection (Bentleys, Lambos, etc...) About 15 cars, all in white this year.
Porche area had a new Porche 911 in blue was beautiful. Four Panemeras to see. Porche does well in the Philly area, actually.

The Volt representative was telling people that the car uses as much energy as a refrigerator. The two sit-inable Volts had a lot of interest. Chevy, GMC, Buick all were close by. Tons of interest in the gas-guzzlers - trucks, Cameros, Corvettes, Chargers, Mustangs, WRX and other sports cars. Prius had a big sprawl going on. One big selling point of the Prius speach was to say "you don't need to do <anything else> other than start it and go." (indicating no need for all the work involved in plugging it in like others including their PiP.)

Overhead a lady near a Volt who obviously watched Fox News saying to her partner "After $1 Million per car, they only sold 10,000..."

I could comment on the people watching I was doing but you might think less of me... Good eats next door at Reading Terminal Market though.

Did I mention... No Tesla?

[Room_A113]

Tons of interest in the gas-guzzlers - trucks, Cameros, Corvettes, Chargers, Mustangs, WRX and other sports cars.

I noticed the same thing two years ago at the Philly auto-show. There was a Volt-mockup/teardown, and not a soul near it. Nearby was the new Corvette ZR1 - and it was mobbed. That concerned me that the Volt might not sell well.

Thank you for all of the info. I probably won't be able to make it this year, but would love to see a Fisker up close, and the C-Max Energi for that matter.

[saghost]

I noticed the same thing two years ago at the Philly auto-show. There was a Volt-mockup/teardown, and not a soul near it. Nearby was the new Corvette ZR1 - and it was mobbed. That concerned me that the Volt might not sell well.

Thank you for all of the info. I probably won't be able to make it this year, but would love to see a Fisker up close, and the C-Max Energi for that matter.

I noticed the opposite. I'm sure there was lots of attention to the fast cars, but I was interested by how many people were looking at the hybrids and electric cars. The two most common questions I heard people asking each other and the sales people were "How much does it cost?" and "What's the gas mileage?" The Prius display had lots of folks at it, and the Volts were getting lots of attention.

Like Bonaire, I was rather disappointed by the CMAX Energi display - it looks like a competent crossover PHEV, but the had one car there locked up and unpowered, with no specsheet or data and no one to answer questions. So all I can say at this point is it wasn't ugly enough to make me hate it (unlike some other hybrids and EVs I could mention...)

There was a substantial crowd around the Leaf when I was there - admittedly of confused people who didn't know how the car worked - the power electronics module (I'm 90% sure that's what it is) on top under the hood is engineered to look kinda like a cylinder head, and had several people thinking it was. I spent some time explaining how electric cars work to interested parties there, and explaining the difference between the Leaf and Volt.

[bonaire]

The CMax Energi was just sitting there, like the Volvo C30 electric. At least the C30 had "Electric vehicle" written all over the sides. But the Ford stumped most people walking by.

Lot of interest for the i-MiEV too. But such light materials. Hate to be in a bad collision with it. The Fiskers drew a lot of attention - but just like the Lamborghinis nearby, probably will sell 2-5 in the Delaware Valley (our PA region) in the next year.

I may go again next weekend with my son. Mainly for the food at RTM next door but he's 16 and a minor car-nut (but not new cars, older cars retrofitted for the car-sport of drifting). His first car purchase will probably be an older Nissan 240-SX. Horrible in the snow, horrible safety compared to today's cars with airbags, etc.