COMFORT setting limiting "Engine Running due to low temperature" ERDTLT
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Thread: COMFORT setting limiting "Engine Running due to low temperature" ERDTLT

  1. #1
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    Default COMFORT setting limiting "Engine Running due to low temperature" ERDTLT

    The "Engine Running due to low temperature" has been discussed a fair amount. Some users have mentioned that when using COMFORT climate setting that it reduces the number of times that "Engine Running due to low temperature" happens and the ICE turns on. Others recently stated it did not have any affect. I normally use ECO so I tried COMFORT this morning.

    In the past while in ECO and using the scangauge I've seen the ICE turn_back_on/ERDTLT on when the "WT" Water (engine) Temp drops down to 114F (45C). I've seen it vary in the ICE shut off when the WT goes up to 154F (67C) - 164F (73C).

    Thought I would provide some empirical numbers with a statistical sampling of 2 <grin> using COMFORT/74/auto. [edit]The test was for 12 miles. Mainly 40 MPH driving hitting mostly of green lights. Also my test on the way home showed the same thing.[/edit]

    Using a ScanGuage this a.m. while it was 13F (-10C) ambient temp out:
    • ICE came on after a couple minutes of leaving 55F garage and ran for 3 minutes (0.07gal) until "WT" water (engine) temp hit about 164F.
    • I noticed in my other vehicles that the Scangauge IA (intake air temp) would be very close to the ambient/outside air temp on my displays (Ford Exped, Honda Civic) BUT in the Volt I saw the the IA remain in the mid 40Fs ... remember the ambient outside temp was 13F (-10C). Perhaps I'm misreading this or is the Volt shutting some intake flap to help keep the ICE temp from dropping too fast.
    • "WT" dropped on my 12 mile trip to work to 123F (50C) and stayed there! Actually within a few miles of work I saw it go back up to 125F (51C) and 127F (52C) ... and the ICE was still OFF. In other words, I never saw it drop to 114F (45C) again where the ICE would turn back on. ... remember the ambient outside temp was 13F (-10C).
    So does this mean that the 'exchange' stays open in COMFORT mode and the electric heat (COMFORT) is keeping the "WT" / ICE "warm". That is above the 114F (45C) lower threshold?!? I've seen that suggested by others.

    P.S. Testing is a little annoying because I think my ScanGuage shuts off based on 0 RPM after 30sec so I keep having to press the 'home' button letting monitor the WT water (engine) temp down to the 114F (45C). I'm surprised noone with a DASHDAQ or other have graphed this ERDTLT processing ... but perhaps all those supertechs are in the warm regions. [update]:this thread setting SETUP->FUEL->TYPE->HYBRID to avoid his.[/update]

    [update] Going home test and fan speed setting impact:
    I was able to get similar examples on the way home from work as the way to work (above example). Plus experimented with fan speed impact to lowering the engine temp (WT water temp). Lower fan speed slows down the cooling of engine temp ... as makes common sense.

    A little experimenting 2/3s the way home showed if I used AUTO (4 level fan speed resulting) then the "WT" water (engine) temp went to around 125F but if I used 2 level fan speed manually then WT temp would go to 134F. I even saw it climb from 125F to 134F when I switched to 2 level fan speed from AUTO/4 when I did the switch with 2 miles left coming home.

    KEY POINT: both fan speeds still let the engine temp stay above the ~114F threshold that would have done turned ICE on (ERDTLT).
    [/update]


    [update] Using precond/remote_start to warm ICE for shorter ERDTLT initial runs:
    Also see my post#12 of this same thread that shows how the ICE temp gets warmed up by doing precond/remote_start ... this should reduce the time/gas for the first ERDTLT running. [/update]
    Last edited by scottf200; 02-11-2012 at 11:09 AM.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for testnig this some more. I can say for sure that when I run comfort mode the engine comes on less, or not at all after the first time. This is from temps 10F-25F so far.
    Silver Ice #C4722 Oct 1, 2012 (Sold June 2013) 23,000 miles
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    The past two days have been cold so I've gotten the "Engine Running due to low temperature" message repeatedly. I typically run with FANS ONLY/AUTO RECIRC and am comfortable enough.

    Has anyone else noticed that the ICE seems to ready gobble gas when turning on and off in this mode??? I've used more gas in the past 2 days than I have in the past 4 months.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eplantz View Post
    The past two days have been cold so I've gotten the "Engine Running due to low temperature" message repeatedly. I typically run with FANS ONLY/AUTO RECIRC and am comfortable enough.

    Has anyone else noticed that the ICE seems to ready gobble gas when turning on and off in this mode??? I've used more gas in the past 2 days than I have in the past 4 months.
    I think others have mentioned this as well. The reason seems to because it runs at a higher RPM to heat up the ICE/WT quickly so it can shut off. This is likely using less gas than running at a lower RPM for a longer period of time to heat up the ICE/WT. Try COMFORT. I thik your FAN ONLY setting is just pulling the heat out of the ICE/WT faster since the electric heaters are not running. I've never used FAN ONLY in these winter temps but I have used ECO and that is very different than my COMFORT testing this morning.

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    I want to ask how *far* your commute is, because that could be affecting whether the coolant has enough time to cool down. My commute of 30 miles each way will typically result, on very cold days, of the engine coming on 3 times no matter what I do. I usually try to keep the heater off until i see the engine come on, and then I switch to comfort, figuring I'm not going to burn that much battery power while I'm using heat from the coolant.
    Volt #3967, Golden, Co.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaksecret View Post
    I want to ask how *far* your commute is, because that could be affecting whether the coolant has enough time to cool down. My commute of 30 miles each way will typically result, on very cold days, of the engine coming on 3 times no matter what I do. I usually try to keep the heater off until i see the engine come on, and then I switch to comfort, figuring I'm not going to burn that much battery power while I'm using heat from the coolant.
    I'll update the original post with this as well.

    The test was for 12 miles. Mainly 40 MPH driving hitting mostly of green lights.
    - When I used ECO my ICE came on 3 times several days ago.
    - Today using COMFORT it came on 1 time with the "WT" engine temp staying above the 114F threshold per my post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottf200 View Post
    I think others have mentioned this as well. The reason seems to because it runs at a higher RPM to heat up the ICE/WT quickly so it can shut off. This is likely using less gas than running at a lower RPM for a longer period of time to heat up the ICE/WT. Try COMFORT. I thik your FAN ONLY setting is just pulling the heat out of the ICE/WT faster since the electric heaters are not running. I've never used FAN ONLY in these winter temps but I have used ECO and that is very different than my COMFORT testing this morning.
    looks like you are right.

    this morning, the 33-mile drive with FANS ONLY had the ICE come on 10-15 times (I didn't count). Seemed to use a lot of gas.

    On the reverse drive this afternoon, I selected COMFORT (70F)/AUTO and the ice came on twice for 1 minute each and used .07 gal of gas. So, there is a definite difference. Because of COMFORT mode, I did not finish the drive on battery alone but think overall usage of gas was way less. The outside temp was 13F-16F.
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  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by eplantz View Post
    Because of COMFORT mode, I did not finish the drive on battery alone but think overall usage of gas was way less. The outside temp was 13F-16F.
    The higher fan setting seems to use a lot of energy [update] and affects WT/engine temp. See my next post.[/update]. I generally run at fan level 1 or 2. I generally force the blower to dash_vents/feet (and to defrost/feet as needed). I think if you are in AUTO and then when you click the lower fan speed icon (smaller fan blades) that it shows the current fan speed that AUTO was using. Seems to be my experience.

    From saghost here:
    http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread....557#post114557
    Quote Originally Posted by saghost View Post
    I happened to see this before I left for work this morning, and I had the DashDAQ set to show APM current already. After I got to work, I ran a double sweep, up and down. The results aren't perfectly consistant, but it should give a good idea. Car on, lights off, radio on, in fan only. There are six user adjustable fan speeds (and fan off.) The first number is from the sweep up, the second from back down - both APM current, so fan wattage should be the change multiplied by ~14 volts.

    Fan off: 21/21
    Speed 1: 23/22 - 21 watts more than fan off
    Speed 2: 25/22 - 35 watts more than fan off
    Speed 3: 26/24 - 56 watts more than fan off
    Speed 4: 26/26 - 70 watts more than fan off
    Speed 5: 29/28 - 105 watts more than fan off
    Speed 6: 35/36 - 203 watts more than fan off

    So you can see the fan at full speed is drawing about 200W on the 12V bus - a third of it in the last setting only.

    Incidentally, for those wanting a radio off option, I was interested to note that using the center console power button made no measurable difference in APM current when the climate control was off.

    [update] scottf200 - added XX watts more than fan off. sent pm to saghost letting him know asking if it was ok [/update]
    Last edited by scottf200; 01-20-2012 at 09:27 AM. Reason: fan affects of WT water (engine) temp reference

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottf200 View Post
    Using a ScanGuage this a.m. while it was 13F ambient temp out:
    • ICE came on after a couple minutes of leaving 55F garage and ran for 3 minutes (0.07gal) until "WT" water (engine) temp hit about 164F.
    • I noticed in my other vehicles that the Scangauge IA (intake air temp) would be very close to the ambient/outside air temp on my displays (Ford Exped, Honda Civic) BUT in the Volt I saw the the IA remain in the mid 40Fs ... remember the ambient outside temp was 13F. Perhaps I'm misreading this or is the Volt shutting some intake flap to help keep the ICE temp from dropping too fast.
    • "WT" dropped on my 12 mile trip to work to 123F and stayed there! Actually within a few miles of work I saw it go back up to 125F and 127F ... and the ICE was still OFF. In other words, I never saw it drop to 114F again where the ICE would turn back on. ... remember the ambient outside temp was 13F
    My testing going home show similar results even tho it was 11F.

    A little experimenting 2/3s the way home showed if I used AUTO (4 level fan speed resulting) then the "WT" water (engine) temp went to around 125F but if I used 2 level fan speed manually then WT temp would go to 134F. I even saw it climb from 125F to 134F when I switched to 2 level fan speed from AUTO/4 when I did the switch with 2 miles left coming home.

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  12. #10
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    Comfort mode definitely helps prevent the ICE from kicking in. At least with my unscientific tests . It sounds like your tests are showing with a lower fan speed that the coolant is able to better retain its temperature. Which makes sense since less heat is being transferred to the cabin.

    Today, using Eco both ways on 30 mile round trip, the ice kicked in a half dozen times each way Using Eco allows me to get home with a few miles of charge on cold days like today, but at the cost of the ICE turning on due to temp. Using comfort doesn't allow me to get home with charge, but i need to test if the ICE uses less gas in comfort than when the ICE turns on due to temps since the last few miles I have no charge left.
    MY2012 VIN #C-3879 - My Voltstats

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