I am writing this posting from my cell phone while sitting in the driver's sear of my Volt. Relax, the car is on but parked in my garage.

We were avacuated from the Outer Banks on Thursday, and drove back to Philly. When Irene arrived here she blew out our power, and it's still out. This is a disaster for our household that has no idea what to do without TV or Internet.

But the Volt has saved us, recharging phones, PCs, iPods, an iPad, and a Kindle. With a mobile hotspot, we even have the Internet. Trust me, without the Volt we would be killing eachother by now.

To preserve our "emergency generator" we are not driving the Volt. In almost three days of hard service, the Volt's range has dropped from 40 miles to 21 miles. But it's literally a life-saver!!!

I understand what you went through.

Irene was a tropical storm when it made landfall in Puerto Rico past Monday morning (around 3:00 AM), August 22nd. It past about ten miles south of my home (uprooted two small trees in my backyard that were replanted later), left the island around 6:30 AM west of my home, and became the first hurricane of this season.

My home suffered no damages but I lost electrical power immediately. It returned about 16 hours later (most of my service is underground), yet we still have many other towns and homes without power after a week (one of them still without power is my sister-in-law).

If the Chevy Volt or any other EV were available here, then we could have survived as you did. In my case, I used a 5 KW Onan genset to power my home until the main power returned.

I hope no other Volt user suffered any major losses during this past weekend.

Raymond

Very cool. You did have to "start" it though right? (otherwise it would have just drained the 12v battery). Starting lets the 360v battery keep the 12v "charged". We had some discussions about this on facebook. My response.


Terminals in the hatch would make more sense [for larger inverters as the cig/aux plug ins have limited wire/fuse sizes]. Manual indicates front ones have fuse that could blow (see jump starting in manual ([jumping] them vs you [getting jumped]).
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They even have larger inverters like 1500 watt like this: http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-CPI-1575-Power-Inverter/dp/B00126IDDC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1314480818&sr=8-2 and 3000 watt max which you may need for the startup of say a fridge motor.
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Also you could run the gas generator in the Volt by raising the hood when the car is in park.

Eric C made this point:

I like this inverter: http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-11240-1000-Watt-Inverter-Control/dp/B000WGNNUQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1314504118&sr=1-1 It is a true sine wave inverter which is friendlier to appliances like refrigerators. It's more expensive, but is worth it.

I agree with Scott, the best thing to do is use the terminals in the hatch. Make sure the car is turned "on" or the DC-DC converter off the Volt's main battery won't be running, and you'll just run your 12V battery dead.

And of course you could not have made the trip from NC to NJ in, say a Leaf. You might want to write to the local news station and tell them your story... the added generator side might get them interested.

I keep a 120v inverter (for my laptop)... never though about the fact that the Extension cord could be going out of the car. Cool idea. Note you don't need to preserve your generator too much as it is a "Gas powered" generator with a battery buffer. When you need it, just fire up the Volt in MM and it will recharge the batteries and keep things powered. But remember accessories run from the normal battery (so its nto much different using the accessory plug in any car) -- but the news people probably won't really notice and would think its cool.


I wonder what the ratings of the accessory sockets are. Anyone know? Could you power the fridge?



__________________________
BoultVolt Red 2011 picked up in Tx 8/2011.
300miles pure EV and counting up.
51.1miles Best Single Charge EV Range

Very cool. You did have to "start" it though right? (otherwise it would have just drained the 12v battery). Starting lets the 360v battery keep the 12v "charged". We had some discussions about this on facebook. My response.



Eric C made this point:

Yes, we have had the Volt "on" when using it as a generator. We've used the HDD but not the DVD. Good idea though!!

We have only powered small devices. Having already replaced two Volt accessory fuses, I know how expenses those little things are!

Thanks for re-posting my inverter recommendation, Scott! I actually just "put my money where my mouth is" and ordered that Sunforce inverter last night.

Any larger load (over 100-200W?) should be done using the DC battery terminals in the hatch. That way, you won't blow any fuses. And as mentioned above, you need to make sure to have your car "On" so the 12V battery that you're hooking into battery will be charged by the Volt's main battery pack.

Wow! I am glad you are alright. It sounds like the making of a Volt commercial. :) Just to get back at the Nissan commercial you could have a stranded Leaf next door! LOL

My only question in doing this is the rate of the 12V charging system from the Li. i.e. the max DC - DC conversion amps. Personally I think this is a great idea, been looking @ these:
http://www.solar-electric.com/exsiwain.html
to cover a energy star deep freeze and fridge in an extended outage. I think the 1100W 12V model might work sweet assuming the DC - DC conversion is high enough to keep the 12V battery charged.

My only question in doing this is the rate of the 12V charging system from the Li. i.e. the max DC - DC conversion amps.

Previous discussions put the output of the APM (the DC-DC converter in the Volt) at 175 amps, or about 2 kW.

If you don't want to wire across the battery (and it doesn't seem like a great idea to me) there's a spare 100 amp fuse slot pointed out by this post in the battery fuseblock.

Hooking up an 12V DC to 120V AC inverter doesn't seem like the most efficient way to get energy out of a Volt (and it isn't, theoretically). But it's probably the only way that doesn't grossly violate any warranties.

Thanks Rusty, seems a 600w/1100wsurge inverter should work just fine attached to that point in the fuse box, I assume that would not invalidate the warranty either.

Previous discussions put the output of the APM (the DC-DC converter in the Volt) at 175 amps, or about 2 kW.

If you don't want to wire across the battery (and it doesn't seem like a great idea to me) there's a spare 100 amp fuse slot pointed out by this post in the battery fuseblock.

Hooking up an 12V DC to 120V AC inverter doesn't seem like the most efficient way to get energy out of a Volt (and it isn't, theoretically). But it's probably the only way that doesn't grossly violate any warranties.

Yep the warranty is a concern, looks like a 600watt/1100watt surge inverter could be connected there, which is right on the ragged edge. Perhaps a Xantrex or a Samlex in that range is doable.

Its nice that people are excited about using the Volt to charge their ipods and cell phones. But for me it is frustrating because, the Volt could "readily" be used as a whole house generator. You have a vehicle capable of producing 112 kw. The Volt already has an inverter that converts 360 vdc to 3 phases of 120v AC.

The energy demands of your AC, refrigerator, water heater, etc. are child's play compared to moving a 3781 pound vehicle down the road at 70 mph.

Nissan and Mitsu are already producing inverters size to handle refrigerators and such.

Eventually someone will do this. It makes more sense than spending tens of thousands for a whole house generator that you may never use, or maybe use once a decade.

Now here comes Rusty to tell us all the reasons why this is very difficult and the myriad safety concerns that it raises :-)

I've been doing this in a limited sense for the past 3 days.

I hooked up two 400w inverters directly to the battery. Inverter #1 ran a dorm-style fridge, which only draws about 75 watts but the inrush current was a real problem for the inverter. Inverter #2 ran a couple CFL lights in the evening and charged cell phones, etc. The little "400w" inverters completely suck. I tried starting a 55" LCD TV (150w) and it came up but there was so much audio noise I turned it right off.

I suspected the main pack would not charge the 12V battery if the car was off and did not want to find out otherwise so I've left it on the whole time. The main pack lasted about 30hrs and I've burned about 1.5 gallons since. The car starts and runs for 90 seconds or so every 15 minutes or so. I never actuall looked at my watch.

Finally hooked up a generator last night but I'll keep using the Volt late in the evening for a few lights.

The cheap inverters are a problem, also know as Modified Sine Wave inverters. For things like electronics, motors ... the MSW doesn't create a clean enough signal to efficiently operate those. Also some cheap inverters rate themselves by the max surge watts, which they are definitely are not good for continuous operation. For true sine wave inverters most rate themselves @ continuous load and have a separate surge rating that can be 50% - 100% higher then the base rating, but only for a matter of seconds, usually. This is to handle the surge required at motor start time. The bottom line is these are not cheap Chinese junk off eBay. Brand names like Xantrex, Outback, and Samlex should be considered.

Also direct connection to the battery without proper fusing is dangerous. if the inverter has a failure creating a dead short a fire will surely ensue. If you are connecting to the battery make sure there is a fuse involved before the inverter. Lots of Amps require lots of safety. Also make sure you run heavy enough wiring to the inverter, under sized wiring is a fire hazard as well.

Now here comes Rusty to tell us all the reasons why this is very difficult and the myriad safety concerns that it raises :-)

Naw, there are other people who've had to get inspection certification of their tie ins with their PV systems that'll do that. I don't have experience there.

My understanding is that while Volt inverter does produce 3 phase AC, but I've not heard anywhere that it's 120V. And I believe it's also variable frequency AC, not specifically 60 Hz. I don't know if 60 Hz is even on the menu.

But if it is, I don't see any technical reason running straight off the inverter won't work. As an aside, you said the Volt can produce 112 kW (my math says 149 HP main motor output is 111.2ish). But that's peak. Maximum sustained output would be limited by the 80 HP ICE, which maths out to about 60 kW before the various conversion losses set in. So maybe 50 kW might be closer.

The cheap inverters are a problem, also know as Modified Sine Wave inverters. For things like electronics, motors ... the MSW doesn't create a clean enough signal to efficiently operate those. Also some cheap inverters rate themselves by the max surge watts, which they are definitely are not good for continuous operation. For true sine wave inverters most rate themselves @ continuous load and have a separate surge rating that can be 50% - 100% higher then the base rating, but only for a matter of seconds, usually. This is to handle the surge required at motor start time. The bottom line is these are not cheap Chinese junk off eBay. Brand names like Xantrex, Outback, and Samlex should be considered.

From the 3rd post Eric pointed this out:

Eric C made this point:

I like this inverter: http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-11240-1000-Watt-Inverter-Control/dp/B000WGNNUQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1314504118&sr=1-1 It is a true sine wave inverter which is friendlier to appliances like refrigerators. It's more expensive, but is worth it.

I agree with Scott, the best thing to do is use the terminals in the hatch. Make sure the car is turned "on" or the DC-DC converter off the Volt's main battery won't be running, and you'll just run your 12V battery dead.

Product Features

Provides stable power to run a pump or mini motor that modified sine wave inverters cannot
Equipped with two 110V household electrical outlets
Short circuit shut down and high speed cooling fan
Surge Power up to 2000 Watts
Power home appliances directly from your 12V battery (DC to AC pure sine wave)


Product Description
The Sunforce 11240 1000 W pure sine wave inverter is the tool you need to provide stable power to run a pump or mini motor that a modified sine wave inverter cannot. This is excellent for powering home appliances directly from your 12V battery; DC to AC pure sine wave. With 2000 watts of high surge power, this product is the perfect solution for power failure emergencies. The 11240 features numerous safety features including an overload alarm and LED light, a soft start system, low battery shut down, DC input overload voltage, output overload, overload temperature, short circuit shut down, and a high speed cooling fan. Equipped with two 110V household electrical outlets, this inverter is so advanced that it is patented. The 11240 provides continuous power of 1000 watts and has a 2000 watt surge power capability. Your purchase comes with a full product manual, and a DC/AC power inverter remote control modular connector cable and key chain remote.

50 kW might be closer.

"Most" (unless you've got Al Gore's size house) whole home generators are in the 18 - 25kw range so 50 would certainly be sufficient.

Great speculation and I'm sure at some level it's doable, just wished we where there. :confused:

Certainly noted about the cheap inverters. I actually contacted my local Graingers to check on getting a good, hardwired inverter, but they had none in stock.

The electric utilities (and EPRI) are already looking at how to make this happen as a smart grid. See snippet from arcticle below....

Looking toward a proliferation of plug-in cars on the horizon, utility company researchers and General Motors have been collaborating on a broad-based, three-year project begun last year intended to facilitate next-generation smart charging capabilities.

How smart?

Smart enough that one day soon, it may be possible to sell the power in your electric car back to your local utility company. Or, during an electrical black-out, it may be possible to channel current from your plugged-in car into your home system as though it were a backup generator.
http://gm-volt.com/2011/03/25/smart-grids-intelligent-cars-%E2%80%93-gm-and-utilities-team-up-for-the-future/

I wonder what the ratings of the accessory sockets are. Anyone know? Could you power the fridge?

Definitely not.
The mechanical design of the "cigarette lighter" socket doesn't allow for much more than 10A, which is what they are usually fused at. Fridges have often a huge start-up current due to the fact that their compressors start under pressure of the refrigerant, and even the running power is probably around the max 100-ish watts you could extract from an aux plug.

Wiring a kW inverter straight to the battery is probably just fine.

Commercial 12V compressor fridges exist, and they are happy with 4-8 amps, but you can't compare those with a household one.

We have gotten a few calls recently regarding using the vehcile as a back-up generator. I just wanted to clear a few things up and recommend that you do not use the Volt as a one.There are no provisions to connect the vehicle to the home with electrical output and there are no provisions on the vehicle to convert from 360+ DC voltage back to either 240 or 120 volt AC. The vehicle was not intended to generate electricity for home use.

We have gotten a few calls recently regarding using the vehcile as a back-up generator. I just wanted to clear a few things up and recommend that you do not use the Volt as a one.There are no provisions to connect the vehicle to the home with electrical output and there are no provisions on the vehicle to convert from 360+ DC voltage back to either 240 or 120 volt AC. The vehicle was not intended to generate electricity for home use.

Whoops, I made a poor wording choice for the topic of this thread. Sorry about that. It was unintentional.

Here is what i found from poking around in my 2012 Volt. The fuses off the positive battery terminals are 150A, 80A, 80A, 80A, 80A with the last 80A presently unused. See pictures on link below. With the Volt off the battery voltage was about 12.79v, with the Volt on the voltage was about 14.7 but went down to about 14.2 after awhile of charging. There appears little room to install an inverter unless you do some mods (making holes) to your side enclosures and bring the wires up to a connector to attach an inverter when you want to use it. You could possibly just put your own 150 fuse in line with the positive terminal of the battery and use a 1000w inverter to set in the back cargo area with a heaving duty disconnect as someone else pointed out that was used for a winch (app 25-35 dollars) One should not the battery is a 60A hour battery but that shouldn't matter since it can be charged by the HV battery through over a 200+A fuse as long as the Volt is on. I can't read the number on the fuse in the picture and i don't know what the voltage may be at the battery post when drawing up to 150A. I suspect it will be OK but haven't measured yet.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=346c40a0aca16499&page=play&resid=346C40A0ACA16499!152

Here is what i found from poking around in my 2012 Volt. The fuses off the positive battery terminals are 150A, 80A, 80A, 80A, 80A with the last 80A presently unused. See pictures on link below. With the Volt off the battery voltage was about 12.79v, with the Volt on the voltage was about 14.7 but went down to about 14.2 after awhile of charging. There appears little room to install an inverter unless you do some mods (making holes) to your side enclosures and bring the wires up to a connector to attach an inverter when you want to use it. You could possibly just put your own 150 fuse in line with the positive terminal of the battery and use a 1000w inverter to set in the back cargo area with a heaving duty disconnect as someone else pointed out that was used for a winch (app 25-35 dollars) One should not the battery is a 60A hour battery but that shouldn't matter since it can be charged by the HV battery through over a 200+A fuse as long as the Volt is on. I can't read the number on the fuse in the picture and i don't know what the voltage may be at the battery post when drawing up to 150A. I suspect it will be OK but haven't measured yet.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=346c40a0aca16499&page=play&resid=346C40A0ACA16499!152

I hooked my inverter up to the main (200+A) fuse for the DC-DC charging system (the name escapes me at the moment)... I ran the wires underneath the hatch compartment over to the fuse box door on the left, and left them coiled in there. If/When I need to use the inverter, I just pop open this fuse box, grab the wires, and hook up to the inverter.

It's not ideal (I would have preferred to use the spare 80A fuse) but my gauge wire was too large for that location, and my 1000W inverter would require a 100A fuse at least.

I hooked my inverter up to the main (200+A) fuse for the DC-DC charging system (the name escapes me at the moment)...

It's the APM. Out of curiosity, on which side of the fuse did you connect the wires (on the APM side, or the battery side)?

That fuse isn't there to protect the battery from too much draw by the APM, it's there to protect the APM from too much draw by the car. If you hooked up on the APM side, you've completely bypassed all the fusing in the car (practically speaking), and you've put the APM at rather some risk.

Of course, if you've hooked up on the battery side the same is true of the battery. It's now unprotected. Basically, I think my point is that's a really bad place to try and connect into the aux power system.

The 80 amp fuse will feed a 1000 watt load at capacity if the rail is at 12.5V, which is within reason. And the fuse is a slow blow, so you can probably draw significantly more than 80 amps if you don't do it for very long (think "motor start"). You might really want to reconsider how you have your inverter hooked up...

We have gotten a few calls recently regarding using the vehcile as a back-up generator. I just wanted to clear a few things up and recommend that you do not use the Volt as a one.There are no provisions to connect the vehicle to the home with electrical output and there are no provisions on the vehicle to convert from 360+ DC voltage back to either 240 or 120 volt AC. The vehicle was not intended to generate electricity for home use.

Message understood. But the need still exists. Offer an emergency power option for the Volt and people will buy it.

Clarkson,

If it were me I would hook directly to the post and put my own inline fuse of 150A between the pos terminal to the inverter which should be safe since you are then protected from shorting the battery and the dc to dc converter by both fuses.
Joe

Clarkson,

If it were me I would hook directly to the post and put my own inline fuse of 150A between the pos terminal to the inverter which should be safe since you are then protected from shorting the battery and the dc to dc converter by both fuses.
Joe

I agree, good idea!. I think I'd like to do that longer term, I just didn't have the inline fuse at the time I took everything apart to do the installation. The unused fuse was previously documented as being 100A, but I then discovered it was only 80A. I think I'll plan on an inline fuse at some point in the not-so-distant future. :)

Message understood. But the need still exists. Offer an emergency power option for the Volt and people will buy it.

True that! Bring it on!

I've just done this. I got a cheapo MSW inverter and put it under the hatch with the battery, made a hole in the plastic to reach the switch, and ran a cord out through a hole in the left side panel. I used short #6 wires directly to the battery (inverter has its own internal fusing). Basically, this works a charm but for one thing - my APM seems to like to float this battery right at 15v (14.95) - and the inverter will sometimes shut down in self defense due to overvoltage! In fact, it seems they designed some negative resistance into the charger system so the more the load, the more the battery volts go up (no this is not impossible, and it's also used in DC motor controls)! So it appears I need to use longer or skinnier wire to the inverter. I'll post some pix the next time I take the 4 nuts off to get in there so you can see how I did it. The inverter is long and flat and fits nicely in front of the battery in there. No matter what kind of inverter you have, nearly all have an overvoltage shutdown and this is something to have to deal with.

I've not managed to have the Volt start the IC engine in this mode yet all by itself, but I was able to get it to start with a big inverter loading by putting it in gear and hitting the throttle. It then stayed running a couple minutes and shut down, with about an 800w load on the inverter. Night and cold made me stop the tests today, but I'll learn more tomorrow. I might have to make less ideal cables to keep that thing from shutting itself off, or get inside it and find and disable the overvolt detect (ugh, I'm an EE, but that's real painful work).

I've run off inverters since about '79. MSW inverters run motors just fine, thanks, in fact in many cases better than pure sine. In fact, in my all solar facility, I have the big motors for the air compressor, lathe, and mill running off an old Trace 3524, with the rest of the house running off a SW4024 as the optimal combo. The motors are a little bit noisier, get a little bit warmer (but only a little) but start faster and have more torque than when run off pure sine. For a motor that runs "forever" like a fridge, this might be a problem (most are so under-designed they're on the verge of frying normally anyway), but it's not with big machines that you turn off once in awhile. You will often get an annoying buzz since there are a lot of high frequency harmonics in that square wave.

Basically, this works a charm but for one thing - my APM seems to like to float this battery right at 15v (14.95) - and the inverter will sometimes shut down in self defense due to overvoltage! In fact, it seems they designed some negative resistance into the charger system so the more the load, the more the battery volts go up!

Yup. That's what I'm seeing with the DashDAQ as well. APM output voltage goes up with load. Since it appears to be programmable that makes sense (less heat, less line loss for the same wattage). And yes I'm seeing 12.7-15V too.

I'm not sure longer skinnier wire is the best solution to an over-voltage alarm on your inverter, but true it should work in a pinch. You mention the inverter is internally fused. Can you relate the inverter capacity/surge capacity, fuse rating, and fuse speed?

With the way you describe being wired in, your max draw is one of; what your fuse will tolerate, what the APM's fuse will tolerate (200 amps slow blow), and what the APM's designed for (175 amps). If the APM *always* switches up to 15V under full load and can keep it there, that's a sustained 2.6kW!

And if anyone's going to run *that* heavy you really might want to get that DashDAQ too. In addition to APM volts and amps it reports APM temperature at two different locations (where, I know not - WOT, do we know the APM thermal limits?).

Has anyone attempted an inverter from 300v? I won't do it, but I have seen some 300VDC inverters out there.

I did a successful mod to my Volt that adds 120v AC output at 1.2kw. There were some issues using a cheap inverter, which tended to trip it's overvolt protection due to the Volts sometimes excessive voltage on the 12v system - I've seen up to 15.2 volts there at the battery terminals, and that's aobut .2 volts higher than any 12v system should ever be - and a lot too high for best 12v battery life. It seems to do this "at random" and most of the time it's OK, and in a decent range, but I needed this to be turn on and walk away reliable, so I modified the inverter to handle the poor quality input power.

Here's some of what it looks like in practice. I'm too lazy to post all the pictures and words on two sites (there are a lot) so if you want all the dirty details, go here and look: http://www.coultersmithing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=553


http://www.coultersmithing.com/forums/download/file.php?id=1304&t=1

Here's the only visible mods when the thing is put back together - a slot in the cover plate to let the power strip wire out, and a new switch mounted in the access cubby.
http://www.coultersmithing.com/forums/download/file.php?id=1306&t=1

And here it is working, driving a big halogen worklight as a test load:
http://www.coultersmithing.com/forums/download/file.php?id=1307&t=1

Part of the reason I could justify buying this car was to be able to use its uber efficient ICE/generator to backup my home power system. A house is actually an easier load than the car is, by quite a bit, if the house already has batteries and a big inverter to handle the peaks. Mine uses only about 250w most of the time - more if I'm running machines, welding, or turning on the whole computer network, but those aren't common, and when I need backup, I can put all that on hold. In practice, I'm using a simple battery charger that puts out around 35 amps at 24 volts to charge my home off this in a pinch. For home backup for a more normal home, this scheme won't work - your normal home first of all uses a heck of a lot more power because you don't *yet) care about that, and the peaks a regular home can create are crazy-big - water heaters, pump motors, A/C, and all that stuff. For a hack to do that, I'm going to have to get some more cooperation from GM and do one right off the main car battery so we can think about 20kw class sorts of output; which will then replace a genset costing about half what the Volt cost and really justify the car's price!

GM, you are missing a bet - listen up. There are quite a few tens of thousands off grid homes - in fact, that number was a couple decades ago - and they're all the kind to buy a Volt. This is potentially a better, more efficient - and far more reliable backup solution for them than anything on the market now, for any money whatever. Any car is much more reliable than just about any genset - because you drive the car and keep it good, it never sits for 6 months with you not knowing something's wrong with it.

Just a use note - you use this with the car turned on - no way do you want to run that 12v battery down, and being a deep cycle type, it's not happy with big peak loads anyway - but the APM in the car can hack quite a lot if nothing else is turned on and working, like the car A/C and so on.

Interesting. Glad to see you finally made it work... I've been toying with getting a 1000-1500w sinewave inverter to attach to the car, though I don't have such a well defined use case for it.

We'll have to see how it works out in practice, now that I have it not tripping out at random. I suspect that this inverter could create more load than the 12v system is going to be happy with, but I plan to be careful, and (think) I understand the issues here.

The other use case I now have is being able to take fusion and linac demos on the road (the license plates are FUSOR) for my "hobby" in that field. Nearly all the gear involved for that is happy with a SQ wave - it's all the rectify and then switch down type of thing, so it should be no sweat. I'm building a small demo fusor system that will easily fit back there in the hatch, which will save a ton of lifting and setup of delicate things when I get to where I want to do a demo. It's kind of fun to go to a scientific conference and be the only guy there not showing some dumb powerpoint slides, but having something real, live, and exciting to show.

If you get a sine wave inverter - be sure you can do something like what I did to reduce the voltage the low level logic sees, else you're going to likely have "issues" as I did. With one as cheap as this (on sale for $159) no big deal to tear into it and change stuff - if I kill it, I'd only have to skip one good restaurant dinner to make up for it.

At any rate, it seemed fairly silly for the Volt not to have an inverter, since many new cars do from the factory, and by golly, this is an electric car. I'm sure other uses will come up - for example, this inverter can run my electric chainsaw...which is one heck of a lot handier than the gasoline type, and quieter to boot.

And now, the next Volt project for me is a much more versatile charger-adapter that knows when my home system has spare power and can adjust to the the available spare - and not run down the house batteries when the sun goes behind a cloud - or someone turns on a lathe. The existing cord is a bit too dumb for that - you can't even switch the AC into it, as the car horn goes into chirp mode if you do, so it can't even do a bang-bang control loop, much less something slicker.

And now, the next Volt project for me is a much more versatile charger-adapter that knows when my home system has spare power and can adjust to the the available spare - and not run down the house batteries when the sun goes behind a cloud - or someone turns on a lathe. The existing cord is a bit too dumb for that - you can't even switch the AC into it, as the car horn goes into chirp mode if you do, so it can't even do a bang-bang control loop, much less something slicker.

I think I read that the J1772 standard embraces variable current limits. I'm not sure how broad the range is, but maybe you could throttle the car by adjusting the pilot signal on the connector in real time based on availability? (The Voltec only goes down to 8 amps, I'm not sure if J1772 allows something far enough below that to be an effective throttle?)

If you could dig into the car's logic, the charger's programming already has all of those delayed charging modes - all you'd need is a way to signal it when power is available and a delayed charge mode that says "charge when I tell you to." Of course, that'd involve hacking the charger module's firmware.

The Voltec only goes down to 8 amps, I'm not sure if J1772 allows something far enough below that to be an effective throttle?

The last copy of J1772 I saw defined pilot operation down to 6 amps. But not below.

I sure wish J1772 handled down to 1 or 2 amps, so that cars could know to maintain their TMSs but not much else...

Well, the real issue here is the car horn going bonkers. It does if you simply turn off the AC into the cord. But it might not if I produce either a too-low duty cycle on the pilot, or one of the other possible state indicators in the spec for the pilot signal. The Leaf is known to smoothly go to zero on command - I talked to the open source leaf charger guys and they tested that for me. A bang-bang at 8-12 amps would do alright here (if we don't have 10 second delays all the time on both sides), but we need to not have that horn blow all the time when you do it!

Right now its misery - I have to manually watch state of charge on my house meters and go plug and unplug the thing - can't even change the charger rates without doing that. And as it sits, myvolt.com takes longer to tell me the car state of charge than it does to walk across a room, down the stairs, across another room, go outside and open the car door to boot the car and get the reading.


That's not a GM thing (I think) but whoever programmed that website (OnStar?) needs another job, and they need another programmer - bad. I'm going to make a satiric movie about all the cross site scripting it does, all the delays while it hits half the servers on the net it seems like, redraws the animation several times with wrong numbers while you wait or it's covered up by some unnecessary login popup that doesn't update the button focus/enabling as it should...and by golly, takes a couple of minutes - it's the slowest site on the entire WWW. I've haven't seen anything so ignorantly programmed in decades. Great layout - obviously pro, but the underlying software is very very stupid - drag drop from some expensive tool with no knowledge of even how to set the attributes on things, and no attention paid or understanding of how the web works or good human interface is done. It's a very bad advert for GM at any rate. IF they want all that other stuff without logging in, which works OK I guess - it should just be another site, or they need to do some real work on this one.

"For a hack to do that, I'm going to have to get some more cooperation from GM and do one right off the main car battery so we can think about 20kw class sorts of output; which will then replace a genset costing about half what the Volt cost and really justify the car's price!"

You dabble in fusion and linear accelerator's but you want GM to help you figure out how to make the Volt into 20kw household genset? Come on Doug activate those wonder twin powers and git er done!

OK realistically GM is never going to do this. As an America company they are too worried about being sued. I mean if some on here are to be believe GM didn't include an air cabin filter because it might clog and american's being too stupid to figure it out would drive around with foggy windows, crash, sue and win.

So it will fall to Nissan or Doug to do this.

And seriously I need this. I have this 20k generator with a burned circuit card, and the circuit card is no longer made and my genset is dead in the water without. And yet I can't bring myself to buy a new generator... I keep holding out hope that I will get the circuit card fixed. The wife has threatened that one more extended power outage without a generator and I'll be shacking up with the dog.

Seriously I am willing to kick in some bucks and experiment like hell on your Volt to make this happen!

Actually, I have reason to hope for some help from GM on this, we'll see. I regularly dealt with C-class types in my other businesses - I can talk the talk and walk the walk, and while GM is a pretty big outfit with its own culture - well, there are some nice people there who at least claim to be listening and thinking along the same lines. We shall see - and I will report.

The issue with using the big battery is actually fairly simple, but I'm not willing to invest one or possible failed/messed up Volts on it - to help GM, as I don't need it myself - but I think they do, or would want it if they "got the implications" of why others want it.
Why take the chance if it's not necessary? I'm no stranger to danger, but I don't court it.

It's that you want to tie into the main battery in a way that doesn't fake out the existing onboard battery management stuff - no way you want that. You want it to not lose track of what you took from the battery. That's thing #1 - I could probably figure out how to do this without help - with enough time and patience in reverse engineering. (boring, spoken in a foghorn voice) But that seems silly to do when a ten minute conversation under NDA would get the same result. If it even took that long. My time is worth something.

Thing #2 would take a lot more cooperation, and maybe some help coming from me, towards GM - that would be improving the way it keeps/displays some stats, and adding this category so it didn't screw up the mileage numbers for the user, but reported this as what it was. Should be trivial - would be if I had the source code, but that's something I'm sure GM isn't going to turn loose easily, and never to "the wild". But maybe to a trusted partner which I hope to become. It needs some help there now as is anyway, and I'm offering to help. If they have any sense and are willing to check me out and my background - they'll jump at the chance, frankly.

And witness the whining here about running the engine for tiny amounts of time, with reported bad mileage, because people don't realize its the fault of bad reporting that that bad number shows up - more miles are being put into the battery and you've not reaped them yet - your mileage is actually just fine! Unless that happens with an already utterly full battery that is, and gee, they do lack the option to charge only to 90% - a trivial software change, but it's not there yet - because of bad conceptualization and communication at GM - I can fix that. If they let me.

But that's a couple of ifs in a row, so the net probability is hard to predict.

I don't need GM's help to design anything I can think of at present - I've got plenty of experience in all phases of systems/hardware/software/analog/digital/RF/Optical/Physics design myself, and a very deep talent network/team for any help I'd ever need - former employees of my consulting/innovation firms plus some new guys who rock.

What I would want their help with is tying into their systems without screwing them up. That shouldn't be impossible, it's block diagram level junk - the kind they can't keep secret forever anyway.

Designing a big ol inverter to run off what is already about the perfect battery voltage for the job is not much challenge to me - I might be better at that than GM is at present - the problems with "who knows what stupid load and switching is out there" are a lot harder than "drive this traction motor" after all - which is why a few inverter companies haven't made it. There are a lot of ways to fry an inverter, and shorting one out is not even the worst case by far - Xantrex (Trace earlier, and now a yet newer name) had to figure out how to handle cross connecting one by accident to the power company - a load that gives! GM likely knows just about nothing about how to handle such things - but other companies have turned to mine for those kinds of answers. So they should realize they have a good reason to want to get together. I know the world isn't usually that simple and logical, but I'm an optimist.

After all, I also design real high voltage KW class power supplies for situations where arcing is just going to happen - at 160kv and above...with cheap parts for hobbyists. A plain old inverter is rather simple by comparison...(but if you think any inverter the user can connect to "anything" is trivial, I have this ocean front-property in Minnesota for sale...)

I mean, thanks for the compliments, but anyone who does this sort of thing will know that designing even an advanced physics experiment from scratch is easier by far than working well with someone else's complex system when you have no idea what they were thinking and where they were coming from with this or that design decision, and you really need to know that kind of stuff to do it right - or be willing to burn a great lot of person-hours doing it the much harder way.

BTW, and hope GM reads this - you're not the first person to offer me money to get this done - the need/desire is out there for certain.

One would think an easy adaptation of grid tie inverters with the islanding circuits disables or fooled would make this almost trivial. The voltage ranges are about right from the battery for most of those I think.

And you'd be right about that, Dave. Too bad most of those are patented by fierce trolls - and I developed one or two of those schemes myself (it's harder than you might think to get right - just turning off the drives alone doesn't solve it), but didn't get to keep the commercial rights myself, that's the deal when you invent for money for a living. Which basically describes my career.

The real question isn't how you solve that - it's making sure a big company like GM even thinks about the right issues before they commit real money to the wrong concept. They don't have the experience, it'd just be luck in their case if they realized the need. And that's not the only one...I gotta keep some bargaining power here!

That's what I bring to the table, among other things.


Someone moved this thread from the one I began, interesting they didn't see fit to mention it to me. I thought it was wiped until I found it attached to the end of this one. Nice that it's sticky now though. But now I get to redo the links from my site to here...sigh.

One would think an easy adaptation of grid tie inverters with the islanding circuits disables or fooled would make this almost trivial. The voltage ranges are about right from the battery for most of those I think.

That's certainly the right sort of technology. The challenge is how to do it safely... There's connecting to the high voltage battery safely, letting the car track the power so it doesn't kill the big battery, connecting to the house safely, and insuring that despite the anti-islanding you just disabled it won't back feed the grid and hurt people.

There's no question in my mind it's doable - most of the engineering isn't even hard for an OEM. The challenges are in sorting out the interface and making it safe.

Our power went out yesterday for about 14 hours. Fortunately, we have a camper van with an inverter and big batteries, so we were able to plug the house refrigerator into that to avoid food spoilage for one night (the van has about 1.5kWh of battery which was just enough for our fridge for 12 hours).

In a longer outage, using the Volt's 10kWh would be very nice.

This outage hit our neighborhood only, so we had internet connection (via our smartphones) but in a bigger outage, that system will go down too.

This incident made me realize that I'm not ready for a bigger power failure: I don't know the best way to hook the Volt up to use the 12V system to run an inverter.

Perhaps we can collaborate to make an "Volt ICE Power Failure" sheet that we could print out and have ready for the next outage?

Ideas/Questions:

* Is it best to hook a decent-sized 120V inverter directly to the Volt's 12v battery? Or can we use the front jump-start plugs in the hood? What's the amp rating for those connections?

* Do we leave the volt ON? Or is there an accessory mode that keeps the APM active w/o running the other electronics such as screens, lights etc.?

* Once the main Volt battery runs down, what happens. How do we recharge? Would we have to manually start the car and trigger Mountain mode? Or is there a way to leave the Volt on so that it would automatically start the ICE and recharge the main battery. Or do you actually have to drive the Volt to get it to recharge? In other words, is there a "Set it and forget it" mode that will run the ICE as needed. (aka the "Honda eu2000i mode")

* Most inverters have an automatic low voltage disconnect (11 or 11.5 volts). Would running down the volt's 12v battery to that low level be a problem?


Ideas/Comments?

Scroll this window down and you will see Similar Threads links. This has come up a number of times with some good threads to follow.

Indeed, there is information spread out across various threads -- my point is that it would be very useful to have it it all collected in a single document that we could put in the FAQ so folks can print it out before problems happen. I'm willing to do the collating and make a PDF with some help. I'll check out the other threads...

Myself and others have written about this in other threads.

I also recently wrote an article for Charged Magazine that discusses how one could do this in an emergency power scenario, using the 12V battery if the Volt for over a week of power backup for an item like a fridge. It should appear in the next issue.

[I'll edit this post as more info becomes available]

After reading a bunch of threads, some answers, but more questions:

* There is an unused fuse position on the battery fuesblock. (Documents say 100A, but reality says it's an 80A fuse).

* Still not sure what the amp ratings are on the front jump-start terminals

* Opening the hood while the car is On will start the ICE, but it (reportedly) will not charge the battery

* Mountain mode while parked will (supposedly) charge the batteries ?

* the APM (since it's charging an AGM battery which like higher voltage) will go up to 15.0 volts. This causes problems with some cheap inverters.

* I did not see any real world experiences with using the Volt as an inverter for several days running.

Myself and others have written about this in other threads.

I also recently wrote an article for Charged Magazine that discusses how one could do this in an emergency power scenario, using the 12V battery if the Volt for over a week of power backup for an item like a fridge. It should appear in the next issue.

Very cool. If that's available to the public, can you post the URL when it comes out?

A more cost effective way would be to buy a generator. I had a small propane generator in my truck camper but the generator went with the camper when I traded it. I bought a Yamaha 4,500 KW generator to use in my 5th wheel camper. You can buy generators for under $400 but when it comes to generators you get what you pay for. I spent $2,700 on my Yamaha because I wanted clean power using inverter technology and I wanted a quite engine with electric push button start. You can also get a a nice 2,000 KW Honda with pull start for a little over $1,000 and you can daisy chain two of them together for a total of 4,000 KW. I would bet that buying a Honda inverter for a little over $1,000 or a Yamaha for a little under $1,000 will probably be less expensive, The Yamaha will run all night long on a gallon of gas, in the long run than doing s Rube Goldberg set up. Plus at a weight of under 50 pounds the Honda or Yamaha can be pick up and moved to where you need it without out the need to run long extension cords. I know that there is no way I can park my Volt close enough to run a cord to my refrigerator.

By the way as far as using a cheap $400 generator to run a modern appliance the cheap generator will probably damage it because it isn't clean enough. Most if not all modern appliances have computers and microprocessors that need to be run with a inverters clean power.

If you turn the car on then the main battery pack will charge the 12V battery. So you'd have 10 kWh available before the engine would come on. You won't see much in the way of real world experiences because there aren't that many Volts and probably even fewer outages.

I was wondering about the same. I would connect a 400-800 watt inverter directly to the terminals in the back and use that as a power source if I ever had a power outage condition.

Remember the Front is for charging the cars 12 volt battery. The jump start location.
Take the 12 volt dc power from the back directly off the battery.

Thanks for volunteering to collect the information.

A standardized version of this would be nice:

http://www.plugincars.com/mitsubishi-unveils-blackout-inspired-i-miev-power-box-114873.html

http://i.imgur.com/LPA25.jpg

Remember the Front is for charging the cars 12 volt battery. The jump start location.
Take the 12 volt dc power from the back directly off the battery.

Thanks for volunteering to collect the information.

Please what ever you do add the proper fuses to the circuit. An inverter failure could cause a fire if not properly fused. I suggest you use the available 80 amp connection in the fuse panel.

I have limited experience doing this with my 2004 Prius. I bought a 800-1000 Watt inverter for around $100 that came with battery clamps (like on a jumper cable) and hooked it up directly to the 12V battery in the back of the car. I turned the car on (in Park position) before switching on the inverter. The Prius could provide up to 1200 Watts via its DC-to-DC converter so, in reality, the power was really coming indirectly from the larger battery. I used 600-700 Watts of power from that setup to cook dinner while camping using a rice cooker and then a portable electric stovetop. I wanted to get a mini 700 Watt microwave oven for making popcorn (whiirrr, poppity pop pop pop, ding!) but never got around to it. After draining the Prius hybrid battery for a few minutes the gas engine would automatically start and recharge the battery for a short time. Yes, I was literally cooking with gas.

I imagine you could do the same thing with a Volt on rare occasions. I believe WOT said the Volt DC-to-DC converter is around 2,000 Watts but I personally wouldn't try pulling more than 1,000 Watts without looking more closely at the detailed Volt electrical specs. The Volt has a much larger usable battery capacity so I could have used the 3+ kWh reserved by Mountain Mode to cook dinner for several hours at that rate without the gas engine starting up and making noise in the campground. However, on anything more than a rare use, I would suggest getting a Honda generator.

A standardized version of this would be nice:

http://www.plugincars.com/mitsubishi-unveils-blackout-inspired-i-miev-power-box-114873.html

http://i.imgur.com/LPA25.jpg

Is that a J1772 connector? Would this device work on other EVs in addition to Mitsubishi? Can a J1772 be used to connect any 1KW inverter to a Volt? What about an in-line fuse?

This is why the Europeans have us Beat! "Your Chevrolet Volt Needs A Charge Sustaining Mode: Here’s Why" - http://hgm.me/HRHWOP In December - I discovered that the coming Prius PHV will have a similar option: Gas first or Electric First!

I think that is a CHAdeMO connector which is a direct DC connection to the battery as opposed to the J1772 which is AC going through the charger.

Any reason why a 12V-12V charger won't work off the 12V supply?

http://www.sterling-power.com/products-battbatt.htm


I have a 50A one in my van that charges a bank of 4x 110Ah leisure batteries. It would be great to hook it up to the Ampera when we go to the race track rather than trying to track down a mains outlet or rent a separate generator.

I love to see how the volt has saved the day for a family without power and able to use it for electronic devices. There is some really great news! Solar inverter manufacturers are working on an inverter that would utilize the batteries in your Volt to power a protected loads panel in your house. The Volt only has 10KwH of reserve power so it will not be large enough to power an entire 200 amp typical household electrical service, but it could power all the essential loads in your house...TVs, microwave, refrigerators etc.

Now here's the real exciting thing, to generate more power you can install solar photovoltaic panels that can provide power to the inverter which in turn power the essential loads panel and RECHARGE the battery in the Volt.

One more step you can do is install an emergency generator so that in the event that there is no sunshine or not enough sunshine the inverter auto starts the generator (typically natural gas or propane) to provide sufficient energy to recharge the Volt and power the house. The beauty is that the inverter only runs the generator when necessary.

I know I probably am going to generate a lot of nay sayers , however, I am a Florida State certified Building, Electrical and Solar contractor and we install a lot of stand alone solar systems with battery banks, except we use individual gel batteries...not batteries from a Volt. In addition I have served in the US Navy as a Nuclear Trained Reactor operator for the world's finest submarines and I am a civil engineering graduate from the Georgia Institute of Technology. I am extremely busy and I do not argue with ignorance, so please do not expect a post from me if you don't know what you are talking about.

I can't wait until Outback, Xantrax (now Schneider) make a Volt compatible inverter because I have TWO Volts in my garage...that's a lot of reserve power!!

I just got finished reading this whole thread and it seems like DCFuser had a great solution but I don't have the skill to modify an inverter (I think not although I haven't studied his mod). So whats the final conclusion on the best and or easiest solution? If one limits the inverter size will that keep the APM from raising the voltage too high??

In my case, no. The APM output just varies and hits pretty high volts sometimes, seemingly no matter what other load you put on there. The unloaded (almost no draw) inverter was tripping due to overvolt fault. It tripped loaded too. Something else on that system is causing the odd high voltage issue. I'm not sure what the mod would be for some other brand inverter. This one luckily had a separate switched input for the low level stuff - no switch at all on the main fet H bridges, they're just powered all the time, but draw no power when the driver circuit isn't powered - saved them some dough. A switch that will hack 100a isn't cheap or small. But the FETS are a switch, just not a mechanical one, so turning them all off (which is the case when there is no drive voltage) is just about as good. This meant I didn't have to put that diode voltage drop in the main high current circuit, where it would have had to dissipate significant heat - nearly 100w at full load. As is, the low level stuff the diode drops the voltage to only draws milliamps.

Yes, it would be nice to have an inverter that ran right off the Volt's pack. The issue, then and now wasn't that part. It was doing it in a way that allowed GM's battery management stuff to still work right and maintain all the things about the Volt battery it needs to - like charge state and temperature. You'd better not just stick a HV solar array right across the pack - what controls overcharge in that case, and then you get the car's system all out of sync. And that's a silly thing to think you need anyway - my Xantrex xw4024 is quite efficient charging the Volt from my house batteries. We don't use the gel type here - too fragile, but use Rolls-Surrette batteries, best you can buy right now.

But GM has consistently refused to share the required information to integrate things like this properly into their system, I've nagged them pretty endlessly about it and offered a very tight NDA. They just won't give it up. They have their reasons, like the battery warranty issues if you use the car in that mode a lot and hurt the batteries, for just one reason. And what if your mod breaks something else under warranty? Maybe a big company can get them to move on this - I hope it happens, but I'm not holding my breath. And of course you need full integration to make the Volt a good backup power source - you want that engine to come on automatically at the right times. If you (deliberately or accidentally) subvert its built in battery management/monitoring, that won't be able to happen.

Edit: Either my emails to Bob Lutz worked or we were already on the same page, but his Via is going to have and onboard inverter.
Big, too - GM is just being GM and being tone deaf and too bureaucratically burdened. You can see plenty of evidence how badly if you read that gift book they just sent us closely with that idea in mind. Now that it's not "bet the company" they're going back to their old ways it seems (and probably with similar results, sadly).

Thx DC,
I'm an old ME with only basic electrical skills. The description of the inverter mod is over my head although it appears all you did is add a switch and a diode (or resistor) not sure why a diode or how to wire it in. Thx for taking the time to explain it though. I have a 140w, 500 w, 2500w 110v inverters and a 5000w 220 inverter that I use for various apps in emergency. I think I'll try my 500 w inverter and see what happens.
GSB

It might work without my mod, but I needed it for mine. I used a diode in series with the power switch (which I just replaced with a new switch easier to mount in an accessible location) to lose somewhere between .7 and 1.0 volt of the input. The diode was oriented forward biased (in the positive line, that means that the cathode, usually marked with a band, is toward the load). A resistor would have changed its voltage drop with changing current demands by the low level stuff in there, so wasn't as desirable. Another EE might say I'm using this diode to do the function of a low quality low voltage zener diode, without any temperature compensation (diodes change their drop, less when hotter). This isn't critical enough to require that anyway.

My 1300W inverter is on the big side for this application...I just plan not to use that much and not use very much at all when the car is being driven, since that's when all those other odd loads can come on and use up the capacity of the APM themselves. I do plan to try an 800w ceramic heater running off it this winter, as I really don't like the current heating system in the Volt - and this is not only instant heat, but could also be used right off my house power to preheat the car if desired. In my case, a steady 600w or so will both run my house in "conserve mode" and also put a bit of charge into the house batteries to boot. I've tested that with the car on, and in MM near the threshold. The engine cycles to keep the state of charge in the Volt in that window beautifully - so I'm really not exercising the main pack much at all, just inside the GM-defined window. Yes, that means I'm using the Volt as a gasoline generator (a very efficient one). The idea of using just the battery - an amount, to run a home, which uses power at a rate - is a non starter unless you are certain that it will only be for a very short time...and of course, you can't know that.

OK so I'm starting to vaguely get it. There's a high and low power circuit in the inverter. you just dropped the voltage to the low power circuit w/ a diode??

OK so I'm starting to vaguely get it. There's a high and low power circuit in the inverter. you just dropped the voltage to the low power circuit w/ a diode??

The reason the DCFusor used a diode in the low Voltage side is his inverter didn't like the peak APM output, over 15 volts if I remember right. The diode ensures a voltage drop to stay below that level.

Yes, exactly correct. The high current, low voltage part of the inverter isn't switched at all in either the original design or my mod.

The diode is just for the little driver that drives the big power FETs, which includes a microprocessor that uses an a/d input to decide if the battery volts are too high, and was shutting the thing down (which requires a manual reset). And yes, the diode is on the low voltage, low current input that supplies the control circuitry. I could also (with more work) changed the divider that it uses to sense the battery voltage. However, this was simpler and sure to work, if slightly less elegant perhaps. And this way, the drivers run off the reduced voltage, keeping the gate drive voltage down for certain.

This IS non-ideal. One reason they have that high voltage shutdown is to protect the FET gate junctions, which typically will "punch through" (eg, tiny arc in there) at around 15-16v, destroying the FET switch, which often as not fails "on" - which in this case could cause a fire if it happened to a couple of them were the high current low voltage input not fused (it is). However, most drivers will also drop about a volt from the actual power supply - their internal logic doesn't swing the rails in EE speak, so it's probably fine, but just barely.

10/4
Thx again.
If I decide to pursue this further I will get back.

Been somewhat keeping an eye on this thread. I'd been considering several variations of ideas for drawing power out of my Volt.

A few things come to mind.

As mentioned, I could use the 12V APM power output to run a 12V inverter.

@DCFusor - You mention that any use of the high voltage side would require integration with the rest of the vehicle's electronics. Have you confirmed the need for this? I've considered trying to use the HV lines that feed the existing DC-DC converter and placing a load on the HV side to see if the car adequately handles the load (ie, registers the kWh use on the 2012's Energy Info screen, kicks on the ICE when needed, etc). Have you (or anyone) attempted any tinkering along these lines?

Just curious...

FYI, you can force the engine to start and put some charge in your battery.
I tried an exparament, and ran my battery down to 0 miles. I then switched to mountain mode, and the engine started. It will only run for 15 minutes, use .38 gallon of fuel, and that puts 15 miles of range into the battery.
So never worry, as long as you have gas in the tank, you can generate all the power you need. I have used an inverter on mine to run 120 volt appliances. As long as the car is switched on the 12 volt battery is kept charged by the HV battery, and once the HV battery is drained, the generator will cycle on and off to keep the HV battery at min level of charge. If mountain mode is selected, the syatem will keep 40% reserve in the HV battery, which is 15 miles, or 25KM. I ran a 1000 watt inverter connected directly to the 12v battery, and ran a microwave oven no problem.

I know all about the car keeping the HV battery charged using the ICE.

My question goes a little deeper, however, as I would like to know if the car will recognize an external drain on the high voltage battery and react accordingly...

-wk

Message understood. But the need still exists. Offer an emergency power option for the Volt and people will buy it.

Some uninformed user will run their volt on gas in a closed garage while using it as an emergency generator and terrible things will happen. Also, while in 100 degree weather in a garage, while running on gas, something will overheat and the fire, warranty claims bad press will kill the Volt.

We have gotten a few calls recently regarding using the vehcile as a back-up generator. I just wanted to clear a few things up and recommend that you do not use the Volt as a one.There are no provisions to connect the vehicle to the home with electrical output and there are no provisions on the vehicle to convert from 360+ DC voltage back to either 240 or 120 volt AC. The vehicle was not intended to generate electricity for home use.


Exactly! The Volt is a car, not a backup Genset

Not that the Voltec package wouldn't make a very good genset as a standalone unit. Properly implimented of course.

"I don't care what anything was designed to do, I care about what it can do!" -Gene Kranz, Apollo 13

Very cool. You actually have the right "to start"? (Otherwise, it will be drained 12V battery). Start 360V battery 12V "charge". Some discussion on facebook. My answer.

Thanks for this thread. I actually ordered the Cobra CPI 2575 2500 Watt 12 Volt DC to 120 Volt AC Power Inverter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00126K8DA/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00) plus the 4 AWG wire set and a 200A ANL fuse. Couple of questions:

1) Is the fuse really necessary or primarily an added safety precaution? Should I place it in-line with positive or the negative terminal?
2) Am I fine to put the inverter on a portable workbench next to the car? The car is garaged - but will only run with garage door open for ventilation. From what I've read, I don't want very long wiring (3-4 ft max) from the battery terminals to the inverter.

For the most part, I would never stress this anywhere near the 2500W but just wanted something a bit bigger "just in case".

I did a successful mod to my Volt that adds 120v AC output at 1.2kw.
Here's some of what it looks like in practice. I'm too lazy to post all the pictures and words on two sites (there are a lot) so if you want all the dirty details, go here and look: http://www.coultersmithing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=553
http://www.coultersmithing.com/forums/download/file.php?id=1304&t=1
Here's the only visible mods when the thing is put back together - a slot in the cover plate to let the power strip wire out, and a new switch mounted in the access cubby.
http://www.coultersmithing.com/forums/download/file.php?id=1306&t=1



I attempted to install my inverter the same way yesterday, but ran into a couple problems. I did however find out what those mysterious spare studs were for...
7880
7881
I have the Bose radio, and there seems to be some sort of control system there. Unfortunately I won't be able to hide my inverter under the trunk as you did. I guess I'll pick up a 4AWG disconnect so I can just plug it in when I need it.

On a side note, does anyone know what the blower is for?

Why not back feed the house (trip the main and all breakers) with 220 volts? Then power items one at a time.

Why not back feed the house (trip the main and all breakers) with 220 volts? Then power items one at a time.
That's what I plan on doing.

There is some really great news! Solar inverter manufacturers are working on an inverter that would utilize the batteries in your Volt to power a protected loads panel in your house.

One more step you can do is install an emergency generator so that in the event that there is no sunshine or not enough sunshine the inverter auto starts the generator (typically natural gas or propane) to provide sufficient energy to recharge the Volt and power the house. The beauty is that the inverter only runs the generator when necessary.

I can't wait until Outback, Xantrax (now Schneider) make a Volt compatible inverter because I have TWO Volts in my garage...that's a lot of reserve power!!

This HAS to be done by someone who knows what they are doing so it can be installed by people who have only the vaguest idea for people like me who don't know nothin! I do know I have dumped a load of cash into PV - enough to power a 50s vintage house and an EV - and that I would just 'feel bad' (to put it mildly!) in the event of an extended power outage living in darkness with my neighbors, who would of course seize the opportunity to remind me of all the years I could have enjoyed a swimming pool or big screen TV.

http://www.naturalnews.com/036194_solar_system_grid-tie_power_grid.html

http://www.revisionenergy.com/blog/solar-when-the-grid-goes-out-the-case-against-batteries/

http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/showthread.php?16298-PV-Grid-Tied-Power-Outage


http://community.enphaseenergy.com/enphase_energy_community/topics/are_enphase_microinverters_grid_tie_only


http://www.wholesalesolar.com/grid-tie-to-off-grid.html


the enphase posts are interesting if you wonder if they will ever support non-grid-tied operation.

I've made a wiring kit that is now available for people looking to get emergency power from their Chevrolet Volt. It provides a wiring set that is pre-cut, has leads that are already soldered or have terminals as needed, with fuse holder and fuse, connector for easy connection to inverter, and detailed instructions for installation.

Http://www.evextend.com/EVEX-1000W.pdf

An optional 90% efficient true sine wave inverter can also be bundled with the wiring kit.

Been somewhat keeping an eye on this thread. I'd been considering several variations of ideas for drawing power out of my Volt...

Ditto, and other forums too. So, here's what I did after living for a week without power here in NJ:

Instead of buying a gas generator, I decided to use the ones I already have: my wife’s Camry hybrid
and my Chevy Volt. I used this configuration for maximum safety of all equipment, especially the cars.

PowerBright APS1000 1,000W pure sine wave inverter (8.7 Amps) from Amazon $275.00,
thermal activated fan, high/low voltage protection, overload protection, input 10-15V DC.

2 24" 2-gauge battery cables (red & black) from http://overtons.com $18 each.

Kill-A-Watt meter from Amazon ($18.00) to insure I don't try to exceed 1,000 watt load.
The inverter's on/off switch is located next to two 110V outlets with LED indicators.

I chose the PowerBright sight-unseen because it appeared to be a good install fit in the Volt.
I was mistaken but, made the best of it...
The base bracket was ¼” too wide to fit into the right side of the hatch area (raised areas cut out).
I used a circular saw to cut a slit in the right side of the plastic hatch cover and two short screws
to secure the left side of the inverter. (Sorry, I didn’t think to take a photo of the incision which
holds the right side of the inverter very snugly.)

The installation is neat and secure but, required raising the felt-covered hatch cover by 2½".


http://bnaitikvah.org/volt_inverter.jpg
2g wires to 12v battery, 12 gauge extension chord will plug
into Kill-a-Watt meter (shown) before going to a splitter.

http://bnaitikvah.org/volt_storage.jpg
Created a new storage area for small items such as a tire
repair kit, ice scraper, a roll of paper towels, etc. surrounded
by a 2½" semi-rigid flexible pool swim noodle for support.

http://bnaitikvah.org/volt_covered.jpg
covered view (raised 2½"). The black foam board
adhering to the back seats with velcro for aesthetics
is unrelated to this mod.

Regards,
Gary

Sitting here waiting for the lights to go out.

Ok, so I live off the grid and power my Volt with solar power - not a grid tie-in system. But in order to do this, I must have a large battery bank, so if it gets cloudy, the car still gets a steady stream of energy from my battery bank. (which I imagine is hard on the batteries using a 240v charger)

My question is this - would it be possible to set up a system with lets say a car-port covered with solar panels, which are connected directly to the car with no extra battery bank (the car already has a giant battery!) So if it got cloudy, it would just charge the car slower? Something like a variable rate inverter or something? Whatever power came in from the panels would go into the car. No more, no less.

Possible?

Thanks for this thread. I actually ordered the Cobra CPI 2575 2500 Watt 12 Volt DC to 120 Volt AC Power Inverter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00126K8DA/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00) plus the 4 AWG wire set and a 200A ANL fuse. Couple of questions:

1) Is the fuse really necessary or primarily an added safety precaution? Should I place it in-line with positive or the negative terminal?
2) Am I fine to put the inverter on a portable workbench next to the car? The car is garaged - but will only run with garage door open for ventilation. From what I've read, I don't want very long wiring (3-4 ft max) from the battery terminals to the inverter.

For the most part, I would never stress this anywhere near the 2500W but just wanted something a bit bigger "just in case".

Good questions focher. I would be interested in knowing as well.

I would think a fuse on the positive wire is only necessary, but can't hurt on both??

I kinda get that you won't use all 2500watts, but what if that happens?
From what I've read, 1000 watt inverter is a lot safer threshold.

Also would think you are better off with a 100 or 150 amp fuse, since the APM is set for 175 amps.

I don't really have the answers, just replying to hopefully stir up discussion from others more in the know.

DCFusor is off grid. He created a simple controller that only charges the car when his house batteries are full, i.e. in float mode AFAIK. It uses a SPX L2 charger i think. I think this thread would be of interest:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?12082-Adaptive-Solar-Charging-hack

This thread is also his
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?9981-Better-integration-with-my-PV-solar-system

No disrespect but couldn't you doz the same with any car. Sure you may have to start it once in a while.

No disrespect but couldn't you doz the same with any car. Sure you may have to start it once in a while.

The Volt's battery is MUCH larger than a normal car battery, at least 10X larger, maybe more. Also the Volt's generator, designed to recharge the Volt's battery, is MUCH larger than the alternator in any conventional car.

So, the Volt can provide more electricity, for a much longer time, in a much safer manner. Until the Volt came along, no-one seriously considered their car as a back-up generator.

I kinda get that you won't use all 2500watts, but what if that happens?
From what I've read, 1000 watt inverter is a lot safer threshold.

Also would think you are better off with a 100 or 150 amp fuse, since the APM is set for 175 amps.

I don't really have the answers, just replying to hopefully stir up discussion from others more in the know.

I'm not an authority either - I'm reasonably confident of my electrician-in-theory (engineering) skills, but it's a different story for electrician-in-craft. But here goes...

I don't think the APM would be damaged if the load were more than 175A... I believe the car would probably start losing 12V battery charge, and thus might risk running out of 12V juice (so to speak). In that case, it'd need a jump-start.

---

I'm really hoping that ~2000W (175A * 12V = 2100W) is actually sustainable (with hefty-enough wiring, etc.) because I'm thinking that one could pipe it into a house to power critical things.

My thought is currently:
Volt outputting ~2kW sustained (let's say 170A*12V), putting power through...
AWG2 wiring and a 200A*12V (2400 W) low voltage circuit breaker, which then goes to the...
Up-to-2500W-sustained inverter that focher got (a little overkill), which has...
Several "normal" 5-15R receptacles, one of which will be connected to...
The heavy-duty 10 gauge 125V*15A (1875 W) extension cord already in the trunk (for charging my Volt), which then...
Goes through this 5-15P -> L5-15R adapter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003YDY8K8/) (~1800 W), that plugs into...
A generator (L5-15P) inlet box built into house, which goes to the...
Critical load subpanel that can power sump pumps, furnace, fridge, etc. (which makes sure the total load on that extension cord doesn't exceed 1800W)

Does anyone know whether or not that plan is actually feasible? There might be a need for a 12V battery bank in parallel to the Volt for buffering.

I also need to look to see if there's a way to have both L5-15 and L5-30 inlet boxes (with the L5-30 intended for one of those "just-a-generator"s :p ).

I love to see how the volt has saved the day for a family without power and able to use it for electronic devices. There is some really great news! Solar inverter manufacturers are working on an inverter that would utilize the batteries in your Volt to power a protected loads panel in your house. The Volt only has 10KwH of reserve power so it will not be large enough to power an entire 200 amp typical household electrical service, but it could power all the essential loads in your house...TVs, microwave, refrigerators etc.

Now here's the real exciting thing, to generate more power you can install solar photovoltaic panels that can provide power to the inverter which in turn power the essential loads panel and RECHARGE the battery in the Volt.

One more step you can do is install an emergency generator so that in the event that there is no sunshine or not enough sunshine the inverter auto starts the generator (typically natural gas or propane) to provide sufficient energy to recharge the Volt and power the house. The beauty is that the inverter only runs the generator when necessary.

I know I probably am going to generate a lot of nay sayers , however, I am a Florida State certified Building, Electrical and Solar contractor and we install a lot of stand alone solar systems with battery banks, except we use individual gel batteries...not batteries from a Volt. In addition I have served in the US Navy as a Nuclear Trained Reactor operator for the world's finest submarines and I am a civil engineering graduate from the Georgia Institute of Technology. I am extremely busy and I do not argue with ignorance, so please do not expect a post from me if you don't know what you are talking about.

I can't wait until Outback, Xantrax (now Schneider) make a Volt compatible inverter because I have TWO Volts in my garage...that's a lot of reserve power!!

Nice to see that some other people are thinking the same thing as me.
One could theoretically directly wire in an up-to 50kW solar inverter, since the car's secondary motor (generator) has a power rating of 59kW
The car has a 355V nominal voltage in the HV battery which is pretty much perfect to invert to 240V split-phase power (~340V peak to peak).

Currently I've got 2/0 AWG wire from the 12V accessory battery into a 5kW (10kW peak) inverter. Yes I'm aware that it's too large for the ~2100W continuous output of the APM. However, the average load over the course of an hour is about 1500W, but the 5 min draw when both the water pumps for the baseboard heat, fridge, and freezer are running can exceed 3000W.

I measured the 1hr draw of each, and calculated the 1500W figure. So at 3000W for 5 min, the inverter will just draw the extra load from the 12 lead battery. Something the 1-2kW inverters can't do.

Wow. 175 amps * 12V is 2100 watts before efficiency losses, and that also doesn't count any 12V accessories that may draw some of that down. I suppose it's true that any additional short-term current needed can be drawn from the battery, but I think you're still pushing the envelope here with such a large inverter.

That's why the wiring kit I've made available is aimed at 1000W with 2000W surge. I suppose a larger inverter is also an option down the road, with further testing, but there are many practical limitations to doing so, and the expense also rises to levels that are at or above a standard generator.

Good questions focher. I would be interested in knowing as well.

I would think a fuse on the positive wire is only necessary, but can't hurt on both??

I kinda get that you won't use all 2500watts, but what if that happens?
From what I've read, 1000 watt inverter is a lot safer threshold.

Also would think you are better off with a 100 or 150 amp fuse, since the APM is set for 175 amps.

I don't really have the answers, just replying to hopefully stir up discussion from others more in the know.
You are right on pretty much all counts. I ended up swapping out for a 1500W inverter and 150A fuse (which is in-line on the positive wire per the inverter's instructions. I've also purchased quick connect plugs but haven't wired them in yet as I disconnected the whole kit for now when we got power back.

The other thing I learned is that you can, if you turn off the main breaker to the house, back feed off the inverter to power circuits individually within the house (while always staying below the available power from the inverter).

Another question is whether the HV system could essentially charge two 12V batteries (connected in parallel) to provide even more power to a larger inverter. I'm far from knowledgeable on both the design/engineering side of that question or the car's capability.

Another question is whether the HV system could essentially charge two 12V batteries (connected in parallel) to provide even more power to a larger inverter.

I'm pretty sure that the pair of batteries will just act the same as a single larger-capacity battery, with the possible exception of different internal resistances. So it wouldn't be able to sustain more power continuously, but it might be able to handle higher or longer surges. I don't think it'd be a good idea to count on batteries for sustained power for very long unless you have a big bank of them (like for a solar system or something).

I'm pretty sure that the pair of batteries will just act the same as a single larger-capacity battery, with the possible exception of different internal resistances. So it wouldn't be able to sustain more power continuously, but it might be able to handle higher or longer surges. I don't think it'd be a good idea to count on batteries for sustained power for very long unless you have a big bank of them (like for a solar system or something).

The HV system could charge other batteries, yes. Some of the concerns though include safety and cost. There's some ways to tap into the HV system, but that's more than what a casual do-it-yourself person should attempt at home. From a cost standpoint, you'd need some circuitry to convert that high voltage down to, say, 48V. Typical off the shelf integrated components that have solutions like this would run close to $1000 to get the amperage necessary for a 4.5kW system.

It's still tempting though. ;)

I posted this on another thread (http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?18841-Inverter-Instalation-in-my-VOLT-(Part-1)&p=220115#post220115) and thought it deserved to be on this "Sticky" thread as well.


The package from EVExtend (http://www.evextend.com/Emergency-Power-Kit.php) just arrived last night. Wow, I am REALLY glad to be piggy-backing on Eric's (ClarksonCote) research. It's an amazingly professional and complete installation package. Plus, the TSW inverter is far better than anything that I would have selected. I was astonished at the wire gauge, and the beefiness of the components. I guess there is a lot of amperage at 12V to power a 1 KW inverter. The directions are incredibly well-done, and the design looks superb. I'm waiting for one of my older sons (an EE) to get home before we install it, but it looks straightforward... and fun!

Our purpose is to run a full-size garage refrigerator in a power outage. I'll keep you posted after we finish the installation and test it.

Other than being a satisifed customer, I have no relationship with ClarksonCote or EVExtend. :-)

I posted ths elsewhere if it helps...

· Ray (not verified) · 6 days ago

Hi all. Yes the volt can be used as a back up generator. I run an automotive repair shop and own a 2013 volt. The 12 volt system on the volt gets its power from the apm (accessory power module). The apm is a dc-dc converter that takes 360 volts from the high voltage battery and drops it down to 12.8-15 volts for the 12 volt accessories and charging the 12 volt battery. Both the 12v battery & apm are located in the back of the car. Tonight I did some testing to see if the Volt could be used as a backup generator. First I bought a Xantrex Prosine 1800 watt inverter. I chose this inverter because it is "true sine wave" which means the 120 volt output is as good and in some cases better then the utility power at your house. Better meaning cleaner.

Now to use the volt as a backup generator you need to connect the inverter to the 12 system. I connected the inverter to the positive post of the 12 volt battery and the negative cable to the grounding post at the apm. Before going further I should say this only should by someone who knows exactly what they are doing. Do NOT cut or play around with the orange wires. This can be fatal. My goal here is to see if the apm can supply enough current to make the inverter useable. Short answer is yes. For measuring the apm output current I'm using the Snap On Verus and a high current probe. For voltage the display of the xantrex inverter. The Volt must be "on" and turn all the accessories off. Lights, radio, & climate control. So running a standard refrigerator/ freezer the inverter draws 15 amps. Which seems to be 200 watts on the inverter display. A drill is 100-1000 watts. Max current draw about 80 amps on the 12 volt side. So to max out the inverter & apm I used a huge 5 foot fan. The inverter 5 second surge is rated at 2900 watts. When the fan is turned on the apm maxed out at 190 amps. The inverter draw on the 12 system was 390 amps. This " surge " was only for about 1.5 seconds. Next we left the fan on high and connected a 200 watt stereo cranked it up for about an hour. The continuous draw on the 12 volt system was 60-70 amps +\-. Under load the apm maintains a steady 12.8 volts. After about an hour the display on the Volts center stack indicated we used about 0.5kw.

So yes the volt can be used as a back us generator. My next test is going to be how many watts on the 120v side does it take to max out the apm. And can the apm maintain that wattage for a period of time without overheating. My opinion is this 1800 watt inverter is probably a good match for the Volt as a back up power source. I calculate at 1800 watts you should get about 5 hours. Another test I would like to try is what happens when the high voltage battery is dead? Does the ICE start? And will it supply enough power?

So yes the volt can be used as a back us generator. My next test is going to be how many watts on the 120v side does it take to max out the apm. And can the apm maintain that wattage for a period of time without overheating. My opinion is this 1800 watt inverter is probably a good match for the Volt as a back up power source. I calculate at 1800 watts you should get about 5 hours. Another test I would like to try is what happens when the high voltage battery is dead? Does the ICE start? And will it supply enough power?

1800W is a bit high. The kit I sell is rated for 1000W (2000W surge) and optionally comes with a true sine wave inverter. Remember, the APM is only capable of a maximum of 175A load, and when the vehicle is on, reputable sources on here have stated that the vehicle is using around 400W at idle. So in reality, you really don't want to push the Volt much above 1000W, leaving some appropriate margin.

In addition to the 1000W option, I am currently looking into 1500W and 2500W options. The latter would have to be more sophisticated than just relying on the Volt's APM and battery, though. While it's easy to simply hook up wires and larger inverters, additional thought and design work needs to be done to ensure that these higher power inverters will not cause damage to the Volt's APM.

Agreed on not wanting to damage the APM. The output is current limited. And the blower/fan in back is for cooling the APM. I've read that people call this a battery fan but it is not. As far as 400 watts at idle I don't know. I will measure it an pot here. Also I plan on running the apm at max to see what happens. I will apm temp over time. Output over time. Inverter current draw and output. 12 battery voltage. Basically a want to see what the volt can do.

ClarksonCote in have a question for you about your " pure sine wave inverter". Must inverters like this are around 5% distortion. The reason I chose the " true sine wave" xantrex is because it is typically 1% distortion. What is the rating on yours.

Thanks-Ray

Agreed on not wanting to damage the APM. The output is current limited. And the blower/fan in back is for cooling the APM. I've read that people call this a battery fan but it is not. As far as 400 watts at idle I don't know. I will measure it an pot here. Also I plan on running the apm at max to see what happens. I will apm temp over time. Output over time. Inverter current draw and output. 12 battery voltage. Basically a want to see what the volt can do.

ClarksonCote in have a question for you about your " pure sine wave inverter". Must inverters like this are around 5% distortion. The reason I chose the " true sine wave" xantrex is because it is typically 1% distortion. What is the rating on yours.

Thanks-Ray

4%. The Xantrex models I've seen say 2% typ. I've never had any issues with either kind so long as they're true sine wave. Do you have experience to the contrary? Of course, the kit I offer is available without an inverter as well, allowing people to hook up whatever model they would like, within the power specifications of the kit.

The problem with maxing out the APM is that you're now dipping into the 12V AGM battery's energy, and that can cause all sorts of problems. You may end up discharging it quicker than it should be discharged, or worse, charging it back up quicker than it should be charged. The APM is designed to maintain the charge of that battery, and forcing it into a current limiting situation is probably not recommended.

The APM may be able to handle the 175A max draw for a sustained period during measurements, but if its design specification is for <1 minute, for example, now you're in a situation that will void your warranty if the APM fails prematurely.

In terms of characterizing the vehicle's 12V power use, measuring the idle power could be problematic as well, since modules turn on and off rather frequently, making all circumstances hard to document empirically.

I'm sounding more pessimistic than I intend; I'm just trying to point out the various potential concerns and why some amount of margin is preferable without detailed knowledge of the design decisions that went into making the Volt's 12V power design.

Hi- I've had problems with iPhones with pure sine wave inverters at 5%. I agree with everything you said. The AGM battery in the volt is very small. And if the APM is maxed out the 12 volt battery will run down quickly. I want to know what the absolute maximum limits are and then dial it down. Since I run an auto repair shop I have the resources to do these tests. I also understand I may blow up an $800 APM. Something else to think about. If the apm is outputting some high amount of power and all the accessories are off some module may think this is not normal and shut it down. And it the process set codes. I'll post results as I do the testing. I just got my 1/0 cable today.

Ray

Hi- I've had problems with iPhones with pure sine wave inverters at 5%. I agree with everything you said. The AGM battery in the volt is very small. And if the APM is maxed out the 12 volt battery will run down quickly. I want to know what the absolute maximum limits are and then dial it down. Since I run an auto repair shop I have the resources to do these tests. I also understand I may blow up an $800 APM. Something else to think about. If the apm is outputting some high amount of power and all the accessories are off some module may think this is not normal and shut it down. And it the process set codes. I'll post results as I do the testing. I just got my 1/0 cable today.

Ray

Sounds good, looking forward to your results. I think it's important to keep in mind that a "successful" test doesn't mean that a given inverter size will always work, it just means the combination of powered Volt modules, power draw duration, temperature, etc. didn't cause a failure that time.

That being said, it's clear you're aware of this. :)

Hello all,

Thought I'd share some data from my Volt/Backup Inverter setup and see how it might compare to others out there. Anyone interested in taking a look at this data and seeing if the usage seems reasonable?

I like others have hooked an inverter capable of handling at least 1500W directly across the battery terminals.

During my test, my house loads were mostly around ~700W.

When drawing off the Volt's traction battery, through the APM and the 12V battery, the car's display indicated that I used about 5.5kWh over a 7 hour period (~0.78kWh per hour). This is what one would expect with a 90% efficient inverter.

Now the data after the battery was used up and the car started to occasionally run the engine/generator:

If anyone has done this kind of test can you comment on whether the following is similar to what you've seen, after adjusting for your own individual electrical loads. Alternatively, can you post your data?

- The engine started up about every 10 minutes for about 1-2 minutes each time.

- I ran the house off this system for 12 hours (7pm to 7 am).

- There were the ~700W loads for about 6 hours, and probably 400-500W loads the other 6 hours (est about 7kWh used by house loads during this 12 hour test).

- During the 12 hour test I used 1.4 gallons of gas or ~0.116 gallons/hr.

- That is ~ 5kWh used per gallon of gas consumed (assuming an average load of 575W over the 12 hr).....Does this seem reasonable???? If there are 34kWh of power in a gallon of gas, this is only a 15% efficiency rate...............

- My "gas mileage range estimate" dropped by ~50 miles during this test or about 4.25 "miles" used per hour. If I assume that the Volt uses about 0.25kWh per "mile", that's about 12.5 kWh used during this 12 hour test, much more than my 7kWh estimate consumed. Might not be able to use the 0.25kWh per "mile" factor since car is not under "driving load".

Comments?

- That is ~ 5kWh used per gallon of gas consumed (assuming an average load of 575W over the 12 hr).....Does this seem reasonable???? If there are 34kWh of power in a gallon of gas, this is only a 15% efficiency rate...............


There are 33.7kWh of equilvalent power in a gallon of gasoline, yes, but combustion engines are extremely inefficient at using that energy. Today's combustion engines are still only around 10-15% efficient, so yes, your numbers look right. A normal generator running 100% of the time would have consumed much more gas for that same amount of energy.

Hello all,

Thought I'd share some data from my Volt/Backup Inverter setup and see how it might compare to others out there. Anyone interested in taking a look at this data and seeing if the usage seems reasonable?


Yep, seems reasonable to me! That is better than the 2012 1000w Yamaha generator that we have that is about as efficient of a generator as you'll get. Great to know that the Volt is a good zombie apocalypse solution!