Hi All,

I love my Volt, except for the Bose sound system, which I find to be crap. I want to upgrade it. I am looking for information on how to do that - there is a 12volt battery in the trunk area that I believe the sound system runs off of. Can I connect a better/more powerful amp to it? The amp I want to use has a max draw of 40 amps. Can that 12volt battery handle that? I heard that the battery is charged by an alternator in the transmission - is that true? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The Bose is loud enough for me. Be sure to purchase a sound level meter so you keep the decibel level at safe levels when adding amplification. Tinnitus is a frustrating result of loud sound in my 20's, but it didn't show up for another 20 years. 10 years of hiss and ring in the ears is no fun. Since it gets louder as the car noise level increases, the EV operation of the Volt is amazingly quiet and reduces the problem. Another great reason to buy a Volt.

http://www.hearnet.com/aha_mov_folder/Listen%20Smart%20promo.mp4

Check with your Chevy dealer. The audio amplifier and subwoofer are near the 12 volt battery. The Chevy dealer should have information on modifications and what mods could affect the warranty. The area looks crowded. A power module cooling fan, battery current sensor, battery fuse block, and power module are next to the other three items. Leaving the existing items and mounting an amplifier in a visible location may be possible. Calling Bose and Chevy to discuss options would help them hear your feedback about your dissatisfaction. Could help them make changes for Gen 2 models.

It's not just about loud. It's about quality. Every audiophile in the world knows Bose is crap.

I talked to Bose and the dealership but they are clueless. I really need to talk to a Volt engineer but that is easier said than done.

Anyone else know anything about this?

I'm thinking you wouldn't be satisfied with just ripping the current amp and using it's power circuit, 'cause the fuse is too puny. But there are some spare spots in the fuse box back there, wired with 16 gauge.

See WOT's posting here on the capacities of the APM. The Volt doesn't have an alternator. It's got a honking big DC to DC converter that takes main power in and converts it down to 12 volts.

It's got a 175 amp capacity, so you should be good to go in that department.

VoltSoundz, I strongly disagree that the Volt sound sytem is "crap" and I have to say so because your post could mislead people! I'm a life-long audiophile and electrical engineer with considerable experience recording critical live musical performances using professional-quality recording gear. I've auditioned the Volt's Bose system during two different Volt test drives and find it on a par with high-level premium factory surround-sound systems in current luxury cars ---and superior to most. Send an email to GM's Tony Posawatz and tell him I suggested you contact him directly (mention my name ---Phil Toney/nasaman---) and that I further suggested you take your Volt to your dealer with this problem. Why? Because there's definitely something wrong with your Bose system! ...Tony Pozawatz' email address is tony.posawatz@GM.com

I think this system is 30% smaller, 40% lighter, and uses 50% less current than another of their comparable systems (or vice versa on the percentages). Trade offs in everything but a large part of this car is about efficiency. "Equiv of 50lb mass savings" per video!

From another of my post:

Chevrolet Partners with Bose for Sound System in Chevrolet Volt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb-l5fgVPuc

"The Volt also will feature the debut of Bose's Energy Efficient Series sound system, delivering the clarity, accuracy and dynamic range that high-quality audio buyers expect.

Bose engineers focused on three areas of technology in designing the Energy Efficient Series: switching amplifiers, high motor force speakers and digital signal processing circuitry. Smaller, lighter amps use less energy and generate less heat, new speakers deliver the acoustical output of heavier speakers and proprietary digital control circuitry produces concert hall volume with half the energy."

Nasaman,

No offense, but if you think that Bose system is anywhere NEAR audiophile quality, then I don't even know how to respond to that. The thing has a 4" "woofer". 4 inches? Are you kidding me? How do they expect any true bass to come from a 4? I can fart out more bass than that system produces! And I am no "bass-head" with obnoxious 5000 watt boom systems.. I like my systems very well balanced. Plus, every audiophile in the world knows that Bose systems are garbage.

Yes, it is in line with most stock stereos, which are all crap if you have ever heard a real audiophile quality system.

So if I tap a 500 watt amp into the battery in the back, will everything still work fine? Will it reduce my range? Approximately how much?

And here is the next big question - does the stock head unit lower the bass when you turn up the volume, as many stock stereos do, so you don't blow up the crappy speakers that come in the car?

Thanks

It gets the job done. I'm happy with the Bose.

Yah - Im with Nasaman here, I am a lifelong modder - and have had VERY high end audio equiptment in the past. I have won car audio competitions and know a ton about the scene. After hearing the Volt factory audio system I can say it is by far the best OEM stereo I have ever heard in my life. If you are concerned about the 4" woofer, I have a friend with a 6" sub that can put out some extremely high quality bass.

If you want to upgrade your system that's cool and i respect that - but I truly dont think that I would classify this audio system as "Crap" becasue it is certainly not.

Although I don't consider Bose to be "the best", I do believe that they do a very good job at producing "high fidelity" sound with smaller drivers with natural audio range thats not too "bright" in the high range or unnaturally shaking in the low range. The Volt uses electricity very efficiently and thats why GM chose Bose to Specially design an even more efficient sound system for the Volt. You clearly did not do your homework before buying your Volt. This sound system is proprietary and should not be altered IMHO. I would suggest that you use an Ipod cranked up and spare the rest of us. Thx.

I did not start this thread to debate if the stock system is high quality or not. I am very happy for those of you who like the system. To my ears, it's crap. Plain and simple. Sure, at low volume, it sounds ok. But when it's turned up, I can clearly hear the cheapness and lightness of the speakers. Same with the amp. The lack of any sub-bass. The lack of any balls. Compared to the sound system in my last car, it sounds like a cheap toy. Chevy should know by now that Americans like to modify their cars, and that some of us like high end sound systems. I've accepted that I can't change the head unit because the whole car is tied in to it. But I should be able to change the amp and speakers and add a sub. So could we pretty please keep this thread to discussing the mods and their effect on the car, and not the fidelity of bose equipment? Thanks.

Nick D,

Good advice! I cannot tell you how many jobs we hve gotten rehabilitating Corvette electrical systems where stereo shops have hacked them up installing "better" sound systems. Better to shoot oneself in the foot than to start doing same with a car as complicated as a Volt IMHO.

@voltsoundz,

I'm sure there are engineers on the board somewhere that comment how much extra power the types of equipment you are considering will consume from the battery.
Two other concerns (other than power consumption/reduced range)
1. Heat output from the amps. I've never seen (felt) an after-market amp that didn't get quite warm - at least none that were powering subs. This will preclude more A/C usage/further reduction in battery range
2. Space - Where are you going to put anything? Have you found spare space to fit anything larger? (or are you sacrificing limited trunk-space for a box?)

Please advise as I'm content with the overall quality of the system other than lows. When I play my AiC I want to feel it, not just hear it.

If lows are your primary concern, this may be of use 4 years from now (I leased, so Volt 2.0 should have this feature)
http://wot.motortrend.com/bass-glass-rear-window-subwoofer-revealed-magna-33087.html

Regards,

D-Fiant,

The JL Audio Class D amp I am looking at is incredibly efficient and makes almost no heat so that is not an issue. And it's so small I can mount it on the sub or even where the tire inflator goes.

Again, Chevrolet should know by now that Americans like modifying their cars, including and especially the sound systems, don't you think?

Cheers

VoltSoundz,

My last car was a STi with no sound system - so I had to put everything in... so I do understand the modfy need/desire.

However, on this car, I came to the conclusion pre-purchase (lease) that my mods would only extend to range-extending items like tinting the windows with 91% IR reflecting tint so that I could minimize A/C usage as much as possible to save battery range. Even if I owned the car, I'd be nervous of upsetting the balance GM set with this... i.e., why would they have gone to the trouble of using low weight/low-power (branded and thus more expensive) components if it didn't serve to increase the desired effect of this car - that to drive on battery as much as possible.

I'm not saying I'm opposed to your idea - it's your car and you can paint it like the "General Lee" if you want to! This is "America, "F@%$ Yeah", do whatever floats your boat/whatever makes you happy. (Just don't expect GM to help out on this one!) GM likely didn't design this car with any mods in mind as they probably (accurately) figured that most owners of this car would be "range-weenies" (Like I've turned into with this thing) and not want to sacrifice range at any cost.

Best of luck all the same,

As a lifelong modifier, I understand your desire to improve on the Volt's sound system, despite not hearing it for myself, yet.

Focusing on the bass, I agree a class D amplifier is your best choice. My recommendation would be to experiment with a small, portable sub to locate the area in the vehicle that provides the most cabin gain. Usually with hatch style sedans that's in the hatch area, but not always. The flip side of cabin gain of course is cabin attenuation, those locations should be avoided for obvious reasons regardless of how convenient they may be.

In short, a well located small sub with a power-matched class D amplifier may ultimately be more satisfying than a poorly located big sub powered by a monster amplifier. Since the Volt itself is all about efficiency, this approach is harmonious with the mission and should provide you with more than enough bass.

Good luck, keep us posted, and congratulations on driving a Volt, I'm green with envy.

It's getting ever more difficult to "replace" the stereo in modern vehicles as they've tied them into the CAN network and are used for all sorts of jobs other than audio.In the Volt's case this even includes the center stack display (controlled by the radio assembly) So you couldn't just remove the Volt's stereo without a serious loss of functionality and of course then there's the myriad of DTCs and warning messages I'm afraid.

Your best bet if you DEAD serious on putting a different high-end receiver and/or something with better SQ and more power than what's supplied stock (I'm not much of a Bose fan myself except for maybe vintage 901s lol) would be a "stand-alone" system with a hidden/remote head so you could leave the stock system intact for the most part.Perhaps then just leaving a single speaker mounted somewhere for things like Onstar, chimes,warnings, and other Volt "sounds"

At least then you'd be able to listen to YOUR music YOUR way.

If it's just the bass you wish to improve, you might be able to ditch the factory sub enclosure and mount your own amp/sub combo or even just bigger & better drivers in teh rear positions for improved mid-bass.

To do this I guess you COULD use an amp that accepts speaker level inputs and just take over the L/R rears with a separate crossover network. I dont think you'd want to use single channel the sub output in this case as the Volt's Bose amp contains all of the signal processing and you'd obviously be better off mircrophone tuning your mid-bass response by manually trimming your active crossover.

Might work.
If you want to give it a go I could help out with schematics and such.
(with no implied assertions of how this might affect your warranty coverage for your infortainment or electrical systems of course)
HTH
WopOnTour

I dont think you'd want to use single channel the sub output in this case as the Volt's Bose amp contains all of the signal processing and you'd obviously be better off mircrophone tuning your mid-bass response by manually trimming your active crossover.

That's done in the amp??!? I'd expect signal processing and cabin equalization to be done in the head unit (or near it). I don't think anyone's suggesting replacing the receiver/head unit, just the amp.

Is the amp so smart that it's on the CAN? Most the ones I've seen are "input here, fixed gain there, output over there" kind of mindless beasts.

Is the feed between the head unit and the amp digital or analog? I'd kinda assumed the latter, but I'm starting to see the wisdom of the former.

If it's digital, is it standardized?

And I always liked my maggies better than my last girlfriend's dad's 901s :-)

Nah, the head unit is good enough. The weakness is in the amps and speakers. I figure I'll replace the speakers with Focal KR2's, which even blown up probably sound better than the Bose's, and get a class D JL audio amp to power a new small sub and the Focals. Seems simple enough, right? I just wonder if there's anything that could damage the car... or void the warranty... or suck too much power out of the 12 volt battery... or anything else I am not thinking of.

When you say the bose amp does all the signal processing, does that mean that the head unit is putting out a flat signal? That would be AWESOME. As mentioned earlier, most stock head units nowadays EQ the signal to lower the bass at higher volume levels so you don't blow the crappy cheap speakers.. but if its done in the bose amp in the Volt, and I replace the amp, then that would be much more conducive to a high end system!

He's not going to be happy until his license plate resonates. Boom...buzzzz....boom....buzzzz :-)

Hi All,

I love my Volt, except for the Bose sound system, which I find to be crap. I want to upgrade it. I am looking for information on how to do that - there is a 12volt battery in the trunk area that I believe the sound system runs off of. Can I connect a better/more powerful amp to it? The amp I want to use has a max draw of 40 amps. Can that 12volt battery handle that? I heard that the battery is charged by an alternator in the transmission - is that true? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Please keep us posted of your upgrade quest. I guess I'm in the minority with you in my desire to improve the Volt's sound system. I believe it currently sounds "okay", but I have been completely spoiled by some of my previous cars in which I modified/replaced the sound system.

He's not going to be happy until his license plate resonates. Boom...buzzzz....boom....buzzzz :-)

you say that like it's a bad thing!!! ;)

That's done in the amp??!? I'd expect signal processing and cabin equalization to be done in the head unit (or near it). I don't think anyone's suggesting replacing the receiver/head unit, just the amp.Sorry, maybe I wasnt stating that correctly.The amp "signal processing" in which I was referring is mostly for the subwoofer (and tweeter?) channel/s only. But the 4 main input channels (LF/RF/LR/RR) into the amp are are analog low level audio (yes, volume attenuated and EQ'd AFAIK) So 4 inputs become 6 amplified outputs that are frequency compensated/matched at the amp for the speaker in which they connect. (internal active crossover) I believe the 4 main speakers in the doors are recieving mostly full-range (above the sub and below the tweet cutoffs obviously).

Is the amp so smart that it's on the CAN? Most the ones I've seen are "input here, fixed gain there, output over there" kind of mindless beasts.There are some GM product with the amp on the SWCAN bus but not on the Volt. So your assumptions, for the Volt are correct.The main radio head unit is on the SWCAN network but the amplifier itself is not.
Is the feed between the head unit and the amp digital or analog? I'd kinda assumed the latter, but I'm starting to see the wisdom of the former.In the Volt's case pure analog, as previouly noted.So I think our boy Voltsoundz can jut bypass these directly into his Class-D amp. But there might be some residual issues (DTCs?) with the power moding and "mute" circuits between the head unit and amp. Perhaps the Bose amp will need to be retained (w/ dummy loads?) to prevent this? :dunno:
And I always liked my maggies better than my last girlfriend's dad's 901s :-) I've never owned 901s but back in the day I remember being impressed with their capabilities. I too like the Maggie sound as well as other radiating surface/electrostatic designs like Quad ESL even without so-called "full-range bass extension" but I guesss you could always add a subwoofer.

But Maggies and ESLs just require far too much power for my tastes. I'm strictly a tube amp guy for 2-channel listening so fully loaded horn designs like Altec VOTT or Klipsch Heritage that are 105db@1 watt efficient or better are somewhat mandatory. Right now my main amplification is a pair of 2A3/300B single-ended triode monoblocks that output a whopping 9 wpc maximum. (only 3.5 wpc with the 2A3s) LOL But into a pair of K-horns they'll still knock out a few light bulbs at WOT!

WopOnTour

there might be some residual issues (DTCs?) with the power moding and "mute" circuits between the head unit and amp. Perhaps the Bose amp will need to be retained (w/ dummy loads?) to prevent this?
How can the control units know about this if there is no CAN feedback? If the interface between the head unit and the amp is pure 4 channel analog, mods should be good to go!


I've never owned 901s but back in the day I remember being impressed with their capabilities. I too like the Maggie sound as well as other radiating surface/electrostatic designs like Quad ESL even without so-called "full-range bass extension" but I guesss you could always add a subwoofer.One word - Velodyne. Awesome supplement to my MG-3s.


But Maggies and ESLs just require far too much power for my tastes.Yup! I drove my maggies (Magnaplaner MG3) with a 500w Soundcraftsman class H amp. Sold my MG2s to my brother in law. The Soundcraftsman died when its toroidal delaminated. Haven't been able to set up a good system since we moved into the new house 5 years ago, so it's all sitting in limbo.

Bass is not their strong point (though they get better with age, until they start to rattle). I need to get the Velodyne ULD-15 amp fixed. It's totally awesome!

How can the control units know about this if there is no CAN feedback? If the interface between the head unit and the amp is pure 4 channel analog, mods should be good to go! These are hardwired between the main head unit and the amp.(I'll post the schematic later)The power mode circuit just a "switched" 12V output to the amp and the mute is a switched sink to ground.Both have diagnostics to detect circuit faults (open,shorts). So something would need to be done to at least "spoof" these. I guess the aftermarket amp would no longer mute from the steering wheel controls or automatically during an Onstar voice/phone event, but perhaps that's not such a big deal. There' always theVOL knob. ;)
I dunno perhap the newer aftermarket amplifiers have these types of inputs? (with a logic flip-flop?)
WOT

So, is the consensus that I can hook up a nice amplifier to the 12 volt battery in the back of the car and it will be given that additional power necessary, no problem? Is there anything else I need to do? Anything else I should know?

So, is the consensus that I can hook up a nice amplifier to the 12 volt battery in the back of the car and it will be given that additional power necessary, no problem?

Well no, you shouldn't just hook it up to the battery. You should hook it up to a spare fuse block in the rear compartment fuse block. I believe WOT's offered to say which ones are wired with heavy gauge wiring. In terms of raw current available, there's a fair amount. I left with a question on current slew rate availability.

WOT, care to chime in?

WOT, care to chime in?Well if you're going to replace the factory amp and sub anyways, you should be able to get away with the factory feeds & grounds I would think.
They're both 2.5mm2 wire (~13AWG) and fed by a 20A fuse from the rear fuseblock, but it should handle a 30A fuse.
If you need larger then you could always go right off the battery fuseblock (and use an inline fuse)
If you PM me an email address that accepts attachments, I'll email you the factory amplifier schematics and connector pinouts.
(providing you share what you do here for the benefit of the gm-volt.com community)
HTH
WOT

They're both 2.5mm2 wire (~13AWG) and fed by a 20A fuse from the rear fuseblock, but it should handle a 30A fuse.

VoltSoundz was talking about a 500 watt amp at one point, and a wimpy 30A fuse isn't going to cut it. Do I remember you saying at least one of the empty fuse spots in the rear block is wired with 10 AWG? That seems like a better match.

VoltSoundz was talking about a 500 watt amp at one point, and a wimpy 30A fuse isn't going to cut it. Do I remember you saying at least one of the empty fuse spots in the rear block is wired with 10 AWG? That seems like a better match.500W! Yikes! You're right of course, should probably even be 8-guage or larger!
But hey, found a much better solution.
There's actually an unused 100A fuse in the battery fuseblock (that black plastic thing next to the B+ post)
It hinges open and reveals this! (#4 poition is currently "spare")
100A should be perfect for an aftermarket amp install
(if you wanted addtional protection for the amp use whatever fue they recommnd inline)
HTH
WOT

http://gm-volt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1589&d=1302062873


PS> Voltsoundz check your email!

Are any of these points switched with the "ignition"?

Are any of these points switched with the "ignition"?No sir, these connect directy to the battery positive + post. For a dedicated IGN switched feed, I believe the closest point would be at the rear console 12V receptacle. However there are a few unpopulated relay positions in the rear fuse block where something could be custom wired with a bit of effort I suppose.
WOT

Crap is a strong word to use. There will always be nerds that have there own ideas about everything. You get what you pay for. This is a GREAT car with a soundsystem, not a GREAT soundsystem with a car.

I agree with the first post. The Bose system is crap. I was running stereo pink noise from a CD and checking out the frequency response with a 31 band spectrum analyzer. Believe or not, these are the proper tone settings:

Bass: All the way down
Mid: In the middle
Treble: Up 3 clicks

The bass is still over-emphasized even when all the way down, and there is a dip around 160-200 Hz, but bringing up the mids won't fix it. I can provide more information if anyone is interested.

I haven't take the time to pull up the rear floor to get a look at the "subwoofer" ( I put it in quotes because everything Bose does is just an approximation of what audio reproduction should be ). Has anyone looked at how it's connected?

Bose is the worst stereo you can get in any car, period. They brag about the energy efficiency as if Class D amplifiers are anything new.

Dear GM: You're selling this car to geeks and engineers. We know Bose is nothing but marketing. There is a reason Bose doesn't provide specs for any of their products. There is a reason retailers are not allowed to display Bose products side-by-side for comparison. I'd rather have Sony, Kenwood, Pioneer... anything but Bose.

Ignoring the "Bose is crap" thread contention (if you get four audiophiles into a room to evaluate a sound system, you'll get at least 5 strongly convicted opinions :- )...

VoltSoundz I know you've had some other issues with your car, but have you had success in hooking into a reliable (aka fused) power source for non-OEM equipment? There have been other threads with similar interests, either to hook up an amp or a fairly large inverter.

Now that I think of it a 60 Hz 120V inverter really isn't that different than a very specialized audio amplifier, in a very degenerate sort of way...

Ignoring the "Bose is crap" thread contention (if you get four audiophiles into a room to evaluate a sound system, you'll get at least 5 strongly convicted opinions :- )...

Audiophile is usually a term reserved for people who buy $15,000 turntables, tube amps, and talk about the "dance-ability" of their speaker wires. :)

I'm an engineer, not an audiophile, I believe in what I can measure, and I what I can measure isn't good :)

Sound studio or car? What are we talking here. My 4 channel ears thinks it sound just fine and that is all the analysis I need. :D

Sound studio, no. The Bose system sounds like a Walmart brand boombox in a shoe box played through a walkie-talkie.

But yes, sound is subjective, I just have much higher standards than the average Chevy buyer (target market for "Bose").

I'll get around to posting more info to show just how out of whack it is on the default settings.

I still love my Volt! :)

solar_dave: I like the power monitoring link! My HOA won't let me install solar panels :(

solar_dave: I like the power monitoring link! My HOA won't let me install solar panels :(

Went through that with my HOA as well but AZ has laws squashing the HOA by law concerning solar energy.

Went through that with my HOA as well but AZ has laws squashing the HOA by law concerning solar energy.

Good for you! :)

500W! Yikes! You're right of course, should probably even be 8-guage or larger!
But hey, found a much better solution.
There's actually an unused 100A fuse in the battery fuseblock (that black plastic thing next to the B+ post)
It hinges open and reveals this! (#4 poition is currently "spare")
100A should be perfect for an aftermarket amp install
(if you wanted addtional protection for the amp use whatever fue they recommnd inline)
HTH
WOT



Hey WOT, any idea of how fast these fuses blow? I'm just wondering how suitable the 100A fuse might be if I have an occasional quick surge up to 200A for a few seconds. If the 100A fuse wouldn't handle this, can you tell me more about that 200A fuse? What is the "Auxiliary Power Module" and what does its power profile look like when the car is driving, versus when the car is parked and on?

Thanks!

If you're thinking about doing a major upgrade, you can wire up your own fuse block pretty easily in the cargo area, that's where the 12V battery lives.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26241848@N04/

I found some components that I think could turn the Volt / Bose setup into a great system.

From what I can tell, the head unit is talking digital to the Bose amp, so there is no way to take the Bose amp out of the system completely. So the only way to change the setup is to intercept the signals going to the speakers. Luckily aftermarket manufacturers have been working on this problem for a while.

#1 Alpine PXE-660

http://www.alpine-usa.com/product/view/pxe-h660/

This is a very cool little box that includes Audyssey technology - people familiar with Home Theater setups will be familiar with it. Basically it intercepts the audio going to the speakers and uses a 512 band equalizer to clean up the sound and set crossover points. It will remove bass from the doors (which is a problem with the stock setup). It then outputs a low level signal for all the channels (including separate front door and front tweeter signals) which can be sent to a new amplifier setup to power the speakers.

Here is a video on how it works http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DFBtJoL8A


#2 Rockford Fosgate PBR300X4 Four channel amplifier, very compact

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?item_id=120465&locale=en_US

Its very small - and size is an issue in the Volt. A new setup requires two 4 channel amps because you need to amplify 6 channels for the doors ( 2 Front Tweeters, 2 Front Door Speakers, 2 Rear Door Speakers) and 1 channel for the subwoofer.


I'm planning on re-using the stock subwoofer and seeing if the Alpine box can compensate for it and clean up the output. I'm at least going to get some rubber washers to isolate the sub box from the chassis - its a hard plastic box bolted directly the steel of the chassis, another mistake in the original setup. If the Alpine box can't do enough to clean up the frequency response of that sub, I already have an idea for a replacement, which I might do anyway just for fun. :)

This is not a "cheap" solution. The problem is that to affect a real change you have to start cutting wires, and I figure anyone who is comfortable with cutting OEM wiring is probably serious enough to want to make a significant improvement. I've never used either of the components mentioned here, so I'm not advocating buying them just yet, I'm going to order them and try it out and see what happens. One of the biggest problems will be placement - I don't want to have a system that takes up any space in the current cargo area, but there is very little space under the rear floor to work with. The processor/amps may end up under the front seats, if there is enough room.

500W! Yikes! You're right of course, should probably even be 8-guage or larger!
But hey, found a much better solution.
There's actually an unused 100A fuse in the battery fuseblock (that black plastic thing next to the B+ post)
It hinges open and reveals this! (#4 poition is currently "spare")
100A should be perfect for an aftermarket amp install
(if you wanted addtional protection for the amp use whatever fue they recommnd inline)
HTH
WOT

http://gm-volt.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1589&d=1302062873




Just an update here... From what I can tell after accessing this panel, position #4 is actually an 80A fuse instead of a 100A. (See picture below)

2790

Just an update here... From what I can tell after accessing this panel, position #4 is actually an 80A fuse instead of a 100A. (See picture below)

2790Yes, I've noticed that too after looking more closely at it (after your last PM about slow/fast blow specifications) It appears the service manual incorrectly shows it as 100A, (and I didnt even pay close attention). Although I've issued the paperwork for a correction, since it's "not used" "they" may not even address it ...
WOT

Yes, I've noticed that too after looking more closely at it (after your last PM about slow/fast blow specifications) It appears the service manual incorrectly shows it as 100A, (and I didnt even pay close attention). Although I've issued the paperwork for a correction, since it's "not used" "they" may not even address it ...
WOT

Thanks for the follow up and diligence, WOT! Were you able to determine if they are slow blow fuses?

Keep us posted. Very interested to hear how the install goes.


I found some components that I think could turn the Volt / Bose setup into a great system.

From what I can tell, the head unit is talking digital to the Bose amp, so there is no way to take the Bose amp out of the system completely. So the only way to change the setup is to intercept the signals going to the speakers. Luckily aftermarket manufacturers have been working on this problem for a while.

#1 Alpine PXE-660

http://www.alpine-usa.com/product/view/pxe-h660/

This is a very cool little box that includes Audyssey technology - people familiar with Home Theater setups will be familiar with it. Basically it intercepts the audio going to the speakers and uses a 512 band equalizer to clean up the sound and set crossover points. It will remove bass from the doors (which is a problem with the stock setup). It then outputs a low level signal for all the channels (including separate front door and front tweeter signals) which can be sent to a new amplifier setup to power the speakers.

Here is a video on how it works http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DFBtJoL8A


#2 Rockford Fosgate PBR300X4 Four channel amplifier, very compact

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?item_id=120465&locale=en_US

Its very small - and size is an issue in the Volt. A new setup requires two 4 channel amps because you need to amplify 6 channels for the doors ( 2 Front Tweeters, 2 Front Door Speakers, 2 Rear Door Speakers) and 1 channel for the subwoofer.


I'm planning on re-using the stock subwoofer and seeing if the Alpine box can compensate for it and clean up the output. I'm at least going to get some rubber washers to isolate the sub box from the chassis - its a hard plastic box bolted directly the steel of the chassis, another mistake in the original setup. If the Alpine box can't do enough to clean up the frequency response of that sub, I already have an idea for a replacement, which I might do anyway just for fun. :)

This is not a "cheap" solution. The problem is that to affect a real change you have to start cutting wires, and I figure anyone who is comfortable with cutting OEM wiring is probably serious enough to want to make a significant improvement. I've never used either of the components mentioned here, so I'm not advocating buying them just yet, I'm going to order them and try it out and see what happens. One of the biggest problems will be placement - I don't want to have a system that takes up any space in the current cargo area, but there is very little space under the rear floor to work with. The processor/amps may end up under the front seats, if there is enough room.

Best Factory installed sound system I have owned would be my 2007 Mustang Gt with the 1000 shaker system. That baby will produce some bump ;)
Next up would be when I owned a 2007 Z06 Bose system, very very loud just not as much base as the 1000 shaker.
Chad
Michigan
C2250

Keep us posted. Very interested to hear how the install goes.

I just received all the parts yesterday, I won't have time to really get into it until next weekend.

rubly,
FYI it's analog from the head to the Bose amp. (See one of my previous posts for a more complete description).
Your selected gear and plan may still work well though...
WOT

rubly,
FYI it's analog from the head to the Bose amp. (See one of my previous posts for a more complete description).
Your selected gear and plan may still work well though...
WOT

yeah, the more I looked at the wiring I was starting to think that maybe it was just analog, which is even better.

I complained to Bose directly, so they sent me some demo CD's. The CD's are pretty good, a few tracks with good dynamic range on my home system. Good stereo separation. But they have very, very little bass. They're mostly new age style music, nothing remotely resembling modern Pop/Rock/Hip-Hop which is all very bass heavy nowadays.

On my home system a few tracks sound fantastic, nearly lifelike. In the car it seems as though the dynamic range is being compressed or something, they're just not as good. And of course with the subwoofer connected there is way too much bass. Try track 13 on Jay-Z's The Blueprint album for a good example of waaaay too much bass, the doors start rattling at less than 50% volume. I provided my feedback to Bose, but I seriously doubt they have a Volt laying around to test out.

Tomorrow I'll be cutting wires and installing the Alpine signal processor and new amps. I'll be putting together a how-to write-up eventually. Hopefully I can get a really clean signal from the head unit and bypass all that Bose "engineering" by removing the amp from the equation.

Hey rubley,

Whatever happened with your upgrade? I'm taking an extended test drive today and the ability to upgrade the Bose system will probably play a role in my decision on the Volt. I'm already obsessing over the car so really it won't but I'd like to know what I'm getting into... :-)

Thanks,

SXBB

Voltsoundz is correct. Compared to my Mark Levinson system in the Lexus I traded for the Volt, it is a sad compromise. And in the same radical tradition that the Volt was created in, I would encourage him to upgrade this system. The only caveat is that he has to tell me how he did it when he's done!!

Getting into this late guys, but yes, the stock stereo is pretty crummy. But it's not lack of bass bothering me - plenty bass, not much real bottom, but that's not a show stopper. There are two glaring flaws my ears aren't lying to me about. One is a series of peaks in the few khz area, that really intensify the horribly high IMD the system has, something I've not heard in a supposedly quality system in many many years. Yeah, it's "loud" - in the worst possible way. It must have in the 1% range IMD, which is gross even by old-skool standards.

Very high listening fatigue, even pain for someone used to far better. And you can't address those peaks with the tone controls that exist. My guess (as a 40 year EE and audiophool) is that this is a class D amp, and that's where the IMD is coming from, while the nasty peaks are the crap drivers, perhaps mainly those up in the front pillars, as fading the sound to the back somewhat ameliorates them. But only somewhat. The car's internal acoustics are far too live (which also makes the tire noise worse).

What's needed is to get at the digital or line level before all that to fix it. Just changing speakers and amps isn't going to fix it if you get the IMD from the stock system and just amplify the problem better. Only then would it even be worth it to look at the drivers, at least for me. Those peaks would be a lot less obnoxious if the sound was clean, and it's very definitely not.

It sounds to me like they are doing that trick of synthesizing a signal that makes the sound bassier to the ear than it is to a microphone/fft analyzer, in order to get perceived bass out of the tiny drivers. You do this by creating harmonics of the bass they couldn't possibly put out and adding those in, and the ear supplies the missing fundamental. That actually works fairly well, though it's not the real thing. But IMD in the midband, and the really crummy tone controls, that's just not acceptable. I find myself, a music lover with literally thousands of albums on USB sticks, just turning it way down, or off much more than in any other car I've owned.
If you can listen to this for an hour, parked, in critical listening mode and not be disgusted, you need to turn in your "I have ears" card.
I can't last an hour, I have to turn it off. It probably sounds fine on XM, since that's so horrible it needs distortion to fill in the missing high frequencies anyway, but I'd never know, I don't pay for lousy content in lousy fidelity.

DCFusor is right. An audiophile system-test CD plus a sound pressure meter shows a +5db peak (in most locations in the car, and especially at the driver's head!!!) at about 3kHz.

In some high end car audio systems there's a way to access a hidden equalizer, used during factory setup to optimize each system. Do we know that such a thing is not available in the Volt?

If not, a simple RC notch filter in line with the signal between the head and the power amp should do the job. It's just 5dB at 3kHz. Does anyone know how to find those cables, and the impedances involved? I could then build that filter -- might cost a dollar.

I had so many people attacking me for daring to say the Bose system sucked, I quit posting information. Sorry, I don't have the energy to deal with the a$$holes.

I had so many people attacking me for daring to say the Bose system sucked, I quit posting information. Sorry, I don't have the energy to deal with the a$$holes.I recall they thread. There was a miscommunication / interpretation at least some of that. Someone responded to another poster and you interpreted it as a response to you.

DCFusor is right. An audiophile system-test CD plus a sound pressure meter shows a +5db peak (in most locations in the car, and especially at the driver's head!!!) at about 3kHz.

In some high end car audio systems there's a way to access a hidden equalizer, used during factory setup to optimize each system. Do we know that such a thing is not available in the Volt?

If not, a simple RC notch filter in line with the signal between the head and the power amp should do the job. It's just 5dB at 3kHz. Does anyone know how to find those cables, and the impedances involved? I could then build that filter -- might cost a dollar.

That's interesting about +5 dB peak around 3 kHz. I did a psuedo hearing testing by conducting a frequency sweep from 20 Hz - 20 KHz, and noticed my hearing was really poor at 300 Hz, 3 KH, 8 KHz, 12 KHz, and 18 KHz. Maybe those gains could be attributed to the majority of the population having bad hearing? It sounds better than any other previous system I've listened to but I've been meaning to try better sound systems.

I'm still no expert on audio quality but I love good sound...

You folks had better be careful about criticizing Bose.

When Consumer Reports downrated a Bose sound system, Bose sued them for libel and took it all the way to the US Supreme Court.

Bose lost, but they cost CR over $1,000,000 that could have been better used to protect consumers.

So watch what you say about Bose. :(

The main concern would be the available power available for the amp circuit. I believe the Bose amp circuit has a 16 amp fuse. You would need to replace the wiring and fuse supply. Since the 12 Volt system is charged off the main traction power inverter... I am not sure you will not cause a bigger problem.

A better approach might be to keep the Bose Amp and search for more efficient speaker drivers. You can probably find more efficient and better quality tweeters. The woofer unit also can probably be improved upon. More efficient and cleaner drivers often sound better anyways. I find that most of my listening fatigue comes from the highs. Using a more efficient tweeter allows you to turn down the HF EQ which reduces distortion. I suppose the same can be said of the lows. Good luck.

Well, I have to add my .02 on this one. As a jazz musican of about 50 years, I'm very critical when it comes sound quality. I have to agree, Bose is very over-rated, and their products for pro sound reinforcement aren't much better, IMHO. If anyone is not satisfied with the sound of their Volt Bose system, it may be the sound source. XM is compressed big time, and I canceled my subscription because of this, as well as the fact that they discontinued my favorite jazz station after merging with Sirus. FM radio is even worse. I use my smartphone plugged directly into the the audio input, and use Pandora for all my entertainment. I have Pandora equalized to my liking, and teamed up with the Bose system I have to say I am very satisfied with the Volt's sound system. If you are insisting on turning it up to "11" and have to rattle the windows of the car in the next lane, you are asking for hearing damage. Once tinnitus hits, it may last 24/7 for the rest of your life. The only sound of silence you will ever hear is when your heart stops beating. I screwed myself as a musician playing loud gigs, and wound up with this condition in both ears.

Anyway, the I'm happy to say that my Volt is the first in many new cars I've owned where I didn't have to upgrade the speakers, or at least add tweeters.

The main concern would be the available power available for the amp circuit. I believe the Bose amp circuit has a 16 amp fuse. You would need to replace the wiring and fuse supply. Since the 12 Volt system is charged off the main traction power inverter... I am not sure you will not cause a bigger problem.

A better approach might be to keep the Bose Amp and search for more efficient speaker drivers. You can probably find more efficient and better quality tweeters. The woofer unit also can probably be improved upon. More efficient and cleaner drivers often sound better anyways. I find that most of my listening fatigue comes from the highs. Using a more efficient tweeter allows you to turn down the HF EQ which reduces distortion. I suppose the same can be said of the lows. Good luck.

I'm pretty sure the DC-DC converter supplies something like 150 Amps. I have 2 JL Audio amplifiers, and I used to be running 3 amplifiers, no power issues (I ran my own power and ground - 4 AWG - from the battery fuse block).

The speaker drivers are not bad at all, they're 2 Ohms or less though. I blew out a 4 Ohm capable amplifier before I figured that out. The problem is a ridiculous bass boost built into the Bose amplifier, and a subwoofer module that seems to be tuned to a frequency the whole car happens to resonate at - around 50 Hz. The mid/highs aren't terrible by car audio standards, although they made no effort to take the bass that should going to the subwoofer out of the doors, which is why they sometimes rattle, but the built-in EQ is incapable of fixing the bass problem. Even with the subwoofer disabled, the system produces too much bass, which is why I went the route of an aftermarket processor.

I gave Bose a bunch of feedback and measurements after they sent me a demo CD - and then crickets. They're a fantastic marketing company, and that is all.

Anyway, the I'm happy to say that my Volt is the first in many new cars I've owned where I didn't have to upgrade the speakers, or at least add tweeters.

The tweeters in the Volt are fine, they extend out to 20 KHz no problem - and that's way beyond what most of us can hear anymore. :)

@danny russo
I'm a musician also and when they got rid of Beyond Jazz I was crushed. That was the stuff that really gets me off. When my wife's subscription expired they kept low balling the price down to about 1/3 of the regular price. She listens to Watercolors so I renewed it for her. I periodically bug them to bring back Beyond Jazz but to no avail. I also have the ringing from many years of loud music, in hind sight, if I only would have listened. (pun intended) Really the sound system in the Volt is usable. I find myself turning it down sometimes just to listen to how quiet the Volt is.

Yes, it was Beyond Jazz. And I know what you mean by low-balling. They must be losing customers, because you can probably get them down to $3.00 a month if you try hard enough. I did that once or twice, but without that jazz channel what's the point.

As far as the Bose system EQ, I have it adjusted with bass and treble all the way up, and mid at the mid point and that's where it stays 100% of the time. I have EQ on my Samsung phone, and EQ Pandora to my liking. I continue to be very satisfied with the car's sound system.

BTW, check out my very simple website if you want to hear some of my music: www.dannyrussomusic.com

Yeah, have to add my own dis to Sirius. Sound quality worse than good AM radio...but what really gets to me about them is the "auto renewal" - there is basically no way to not get that, and of course, it's always for 1 month at the top tier price - even if you intended to let it lapse. You're going to wind up paying for that extra month - and spending some time on the phone insisting that yes, you really do want to cancel, no, I don't want to hear more pitches to keep the service. Then you're going to get a zillion phone calls begging for you to sign up again at varying prices, all lower than the first quote. If they can afford that lower price - why isn't that the upfront price?

What predators! What good company would need to use such tactics if they were providing a decent service for the money? I bet if you sent them a check instead of using a CC, they'd find a way to re-read the magstripe on the check and still ding you. And the content. Reminds me of Pink Floyd's "500 channels of sh*t on the TV to choose from, choose from". I can and do live completely without it. It was also a real bummer that while it lasted, the GM stack defaulted to some XM station everytime you hit the source button too - the fastest way to get to real content was to use the home page and specifically select the source there.

I was pro musician myself - it was actually my main bread-winning job for some years - lucky I didn't do too much damage to my hearing - a bad wireless phone used for a couple years in my business did most of that to one ear. But as a result of a love of music, I'm picky about how it gets reproduced, and have a huge wealth of albums - works out to a few hundred gigabytes ripped lossless. My complaints with the Volt sound quality are based on lossless CD's as input material - good stuff, not pop. I think that 5 db at 3khz peak might actually be narrower and taller than measured above, which would be common error when measuring with a fast sweep.

At any rate, the thing that makes it so obnoxious to me is the huge amount of IM distortion - has to be in the whole number percent range - ridiculous for anything modern - that causes a lot of sum and difference frequencies to pile up right in that peak and give me serious listening fatigue. If Bose wants to sue me for calling them out, well, I'm not CR and I'll drag them through the stinky court of public opinion with real numbers that show how bad they are compared to the radio in a '66 plymouth - or a crap table radio...bring it, suckers. I'll sell you the test equipment to prove it in the end.

Normally the transducers are the weakest link in a system, since it's fairly easy to make the electronics almost perfect. Here, we have issues with both - no way those speakers are creating all that IM even at low levels. It's got to be a badly done class D amp, about the only modern audio device that has IM troubles if done poorly and under-sampled. The obvious fix is a real amp, and maybe a para EQ to wipe out that nasty peak.

But - not wanting to crack pretty plastic prying on things - any info on where I can get to line level signals so I can fix it would be extremely appreciated. I don't have the sub woofer version, just the standard stereo. Anybody know how to crack the stack open without, uh, cracking it? I'd just add a good quality class AB amp to replace the one in there. Highly unlikely the line level has this distortion in it.

The Volt could also use some internal acoustic treatment. It's too "live" acoustically at HF - all that hard plastic on top of all the glass. I'll be looking into that, maybe coating some of it with fine leather, or something else that absorbs some HF rather than being a near perfect reflector. This wouldn't help quiet the car very much - most of the road noise appears to be conducted and has a low 1/F knee in the few hundred HZ range. There's more of this rumble than in my (Honda) truck! What little HF noise there is appears to be getting through the plastic well tubs, which could also be treated with lead or dynamat to cut it down some - but almost all the energy is in the low range - not sure how you'd get rid of that without changing bushings and similar suspension parts - and tires.

But it's the distortion in that stereo that makes me just want to turn it off. Which stinks, as I have a real treasure trove of good source material burned onto USB sticks, and it would otherwise be a great platform for listening. Yeah, it's efficient, as I turn it down or off. It only took about a day to become pretty annoying. Almost as bad as tinnitus itself.

As far as the Bose system EQ, I have it adjusted with bass and treble all the way up, and mid at the mid point and that's where it stays 100% of the time.

Wow, the Bose system has +5 dB too much bass with the EQ all the way down! you must really love bass :)

The obvious fix is a real amp, and maybe a para EQ to wipe out that nasty peak.

That's why I went with the Alpine sound processor, it's effectively and auto-tuning 256 band EQ.


any info on where I can get to line level signals so I can fix it would be extremely appreciated. I don't have the sub woofer version, just the standard stereo.

Ask WOPonTour



The Volt could also use some internal acoustic treatment. It's too "live" acoustically at HF - all that hard plastic on top of all the glass.

The Alpine processor does a pretty good job of cleaning that up.


But it's the distortion in that stereo that makes me just want to turn it off. Which stinks, as I have a real treasure trove of good source material burned onto USB sticks, and it would otherwise be a great platform for listening. Yeah, it's efficient, as I turn it down or off. It only took about a day to become pretty annoying. Almost as bad as tinnitus itself.

Yeah, when I was experimenting there was a point where I had to send the aftermarket processor in for repair, took 4 weeks go get it back. I didn't bother re-installing the Bose system because I'd rather drive in silence than listen to that garbage. :)

What did you use as a reference system to judge your work once you complete your project? Seems to me you'd need that in order to avoid installing a louder or exaggerated i.e. thumping base and sizzling high frequencies I hear so often in cars passing by, which we know isn't true high fedelity.

Am interested in your effort and how you know you have achieved true "audiophile quality" and not just more base/treble and loudness.

Wow, the Bose system has +5 dB too much bass with the EQ all the way down! you must really love bass :)
I noticed today that full bass setting was way too much while listening to FM radio. I do use the full bass setting when using my smartphone as a sound source. The smartphone tends to put out less bass. The Volt, like any good radio these days, retains tone settings for each source separately.

What did you use as a reference system to judge your work once you complete your project? Seems to me you'd need that in order to avoid installing a louder or exaggerated i.e. thumping base and sizzling high frequencies I hear so often in cars passing by, which we know isn't true high fedelity.

Am interested in your effort and how you know you have achieved true "audiophile quality" and not just more base/treble and loudness.

I use a handheld spectrum analyzer http://www.amazon.com/Phonic-PAA3-Handheld-Analyzer-Interface/dp/B003WQQGIO

I'm a big believer in correction processing, like Audyssey. I like the flatter overall response it produces. Many people are accustomed to overly bass-boosted sound, so to them it sounds like the bass is missing in my car.

I've had my volt with Bose stereo for two days now.
I'm a recording engineer, I use my ears to get paid.
For a stock stereo, the sound isn't horrible. But I'm considering upgrading it. I can get the car to sound WAY better.

First thing I'll try is just switching out just the speakers. I have a pair of MB quart 6.5's with tweeters that I pulled from my VW jetta.

If I do need to switch out the stock amp and add a processor, I'll be sure to use something that has a similar power draw. I don't want to eat into the EV drive time. I'm thinking an efficient class D amp. Maybe just not use the 4" rear door speakers at all and have a 4 channel amp power just the fronts and a small sub.

I've had my volt with Bose stereo for two days now.
I'm a recording engineer, I use my ears to get paid.
For a stock stereo, the sound isn't horrible. But I'm considering upgrading it. I can get the car to sound WAY better.

First thing I'll try is just switching out just the speakers. I have a pair of MB quart 6.5's with tweeters that I pulled from my VW jetta.

If I do need to switch out the stock amp and add a processor, I'll be sure to use something that has a similar power draw. I don't want to eat into the EV drive time. I'm thinking an efficient class D amp. Maybe just not use the 4" rear door speakers at all and have a 4 channel amp power just the fronts and a small sub.

The speakers really aren't bad, my analyzer shows the tweeters going out to 20 KHz no problem (yes, I realize a 1/3 octave frequency response measurement doesn't tell the whole story).

The real problems are:

- Ridiculous bass boost built into the amp
- Full range sound going to the doors + bass going to the sub, thats why the doors rattle when you turn it up

Neither of these issues can be fixed without some wiring changes.
Using filters on the 6.5" in the doors to remove the bass would be a big step in the right direction.

I'm using 2 Class D JL Audio amps with no change in driving range, the audio system is minor compared to the power it takes to move the car, which is probably in the neighborhood of 20-25,000 watts cruising, and up to 110,000 watts at full tilt. The A/C is probably 2,000 watts, heater probably goes up to around 4-5,000 watts. Even a modified stereo isn't going to come close to competing with those draws.

Where did you splice into the radio wiring and install the componets?

Rubley is on the money here. "Hi end" or what should pass for hi end audio in cars is in a sad state. It is all about marketing. Aside from his notes positioning of speakers and proper baffling are NOT difficult to achieve especially when you're building a car of this caliber from the ground up. Those who claim it sounds ok, have not listened to what a properly engineered automotive system can sound like. One only has to google Film Sound mixer Gary Summers and see what he has done to his Mercedes. There might be some old videos on YouTube. Granted, this level of expense does not have to be incurred if, from an OEM standpoint, things were done correctly from initial design. Speaker placement, proper baffling and time alignment can make all the difference in the world. Trust me if you could hear what is possible in a car, you WILL want it.
I'm been trying to get GM to meet with him to at least explore the possibilities. Tweeters that point AT each other??? Clearly, an audio engineer was not involved here.


I agree with the first post. The Bose system is crap. I was running stereo pink noise from a CD and checking out the frequency response with a 31 band spectrum analyzer. Believe or not, these are the proper tone settings:

Bass: All the way down
Mid: In the middle
Treble: Up 3 clicks

The bass is still over-emphasized even when all the way down, and there is a dip around 160-200 Hz, but bringing up the mids won't fix it. I can provide more information if anyone is interested.

I haven't take the time to pull up the rear floor to get a look at the "subwoofer" ( I put it in quotes because everything Bose does is just an approximation of what audio reproduction should be ). Has anyone looked at how it's connected?

Bose is the worst stereo you can get in any car, period. They brag about the energy efficiency as if Class D amplifiers are anything new.

Dear GM: You're selling this car to geeks and engineers. We know Bose is nothing but marketing. There is a reason Bose doesn't provide specs for any of their products. There is a reason retailers are not allowed to display Bose products side-by-side for comparison. I'd rather have Sony, Kenwood, Pioneer... anything but Bose.

Rubley is on the money here. "Hi end" or what should pass for hi end audio in cars is in a sad state. It is all about marketing. Aside from his notes positioning of speakers and proper baffling are NOT difficult to achieve especially when you're building a car of this caliber from the ground up. Those who claim it sounds ok, have not listened to what a properly engineered automotive system can sound like. ..., this level of expense does not have to be incurred if, from an OEM standpoint, things were done correctly from initial design. Speaker placement, proper baffling ....can make all the difference in the world.

Thanks for bumping this classic;) I didn't know it was here and have wondered since buying the car months ago A) Did the Volt use newer/lighter tech Class C amps, which I take that it does by "switching" shown from an earlier post, and B) What's up with the doors, and the bass??

I agree that additional OEM costs would have been insignificant, at great improvement to sound, if GM had simply baffled and anchored the door speakers better. The bass is a mud-bath, and now knowing that the extra "Premium" woffer (on the system whose incremental quality wasn't the main draw, in the first place), is just a 4" driver, its no wonder where some of these bass problems are coming from. GM must have set the crossover points real low, to get more from those massive;) 4" drivers. Gosh, I hope they aren't getting the whole signal?? Maybe WOT can inform us, if he's still around.

I think a viable (after-market) improvement formula may be passive crossovers to reduce 4" bass signal at the speaker level, and a seperate after-market powered woffer, driven from either a line out, or the same speaker wire/passive setup. I think Bose's weakpoint, historically, has been its "boominess". Improving the door speaker enclosures, alone, could go a long way. Speaker boxes need mass. Its a shame to think about auto-engineers screwing up what audio-engineers would do, all to save, what, ~5lbs/$10? C'mon GM.