I've been playing with the numbers on the proposed Volt Lease, and the way I can get to the $350/month payment for a 36 month term is to assume:

1. MSRP of $40,280
2. A Residual Percentage of 55%
3. That for purposes of calculating the monthly depreciation, GM starts with the negotiated purchase price LESS the $7,500 rebate (instead of the full MSRP) - i.e. it's (32,780-22,154)/36
4. A Money Factor of about 0.0010416 (the equivalent of 2.5% APR)
5. A Capital Cost Reduction (Down Payment) of $2,500

Is there anyone with a connection to GM Finance or US Bank who can confirm? I just want to calculate what my actual payment will be equipped with the options I've chosen, and want to know if using the correct baseline assumptions.

Thanks!

There's this post and some followup in another thread. http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5164&p=48436#post48436

Sharon reports:

Yesterday I was shown a document entitled "12-3-10 US Bank Residual Values". Included in this document was a page entitled "Rate Sheet - Chevrolet" which was mostly like a foreign language to me. However, there was also a page entitled "Volt Residual". Below is what was on that sheet:

*Example
MSRP 44680.00
36mo % x 43%
Base Residual Value = 19212.40
Credit + 7500.00
Contract Residual Value = 26712.40

There is discussion as to exactly what this means, read my followups. In hindsight, I should have started a new thread.

There's this post and some followup in another thread. http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5164&p=48436#post48436

Sharon reports:

Yesterday I was shown a document entitled "12-3-10 US Bank Residual Values". Included in this document was a page entitled "Rate Sheet - Chevrolet" which was mostly like a foreign language to me. However, there was also a page entitled "Volt Residual". Below is what was on that sheet:

*Example
MSRP 44680.00
36mo % x 43%
Base Residual Value = 19212.40
Credit + 7500.00
Contract Residual Value = 26712.40

There is discussion as to exactly what this means, read my followups. In hindsight, I should have started a new thread.

I'm not an auto lease expert, but my take away from these numbers is that this results in a $533/month lease [$19212/36 mos], the contract residual will be the cost to purchase the vehicle after the lease expires.

Any experts out there, please comment!

I'm not an auto lease expert, but my take away from these numbers is that this results in a $533/month lease [$19212/36 mos], the contract residual will be the cost to purchase the vehicle after the lease expires.

Any experts out there, please comment!

Not an expert, but my take is:

44680 price
- 2500 cap. cost reduction (up front payment)
- 7500 tax credit to GM
--------
34680.00 subtotal
- 19212.40 residual
--------
15467.60 amount finenced
/ 36 months
-------
429.65 per month

Now, that assumes a zero percent money factor. And that's a loaded car. The base price is 40,280.00.

I think the "Contract Residual" is what the bill of sale will be if the lessee decides to buy, for sales tax purposes. The base residual should be the cash buyout.

Thanks Marty! That does make more sense than my dribble. Amazing how $4000 in options can raise the monthly lease from the advertised $350/mo. to $430 [plus tax!]

Ya that is what I can't figure out. The cost to add the options is raising the payment $80? Isn't that pretty much assuming the options have almost no residual? I guess I am concerned that my payment is increasing 20% for a 9% increase in MSRP... Is this really going to be the case?

Thanks Marty! That does make more sense than my dribble. Amazing how $4000 in options can raise the monthly lease from the advertised $350/mo. to $430 [plus tax!]

That's about on the mark, though. As I recall the rule of thumb is about $20 per thousand.

Ya that is what I can't figure out. The cost to add the options is raising the payment $80? Isn't that pretty much assuming the options have almost no residual? I guess I am concerned that my payment is increasing 20% for a 9% increase in MSRP... Is this really going to be the case?

I think there's some subsidizing in the $350 figure. Let's take a base car, using the same 43% residual. Note that these are all net figures, exclusive of taxes, license, etc. and assuming that you have an honest dealer who isn't going to try to rip you off with documentation and origination fees, etc. :

40280.00 MSRP
- 2500.00 Cap. cost reduction (up front payment)
- 7500.00 Tax rebate captured by lessor
----------
30280.00 subtotal
- 17320.40 residual (40280 * 43% - Sharon's US Bank figure)
---------
12959.60 amount financed
/ 36 months
---------
359.99 per month.

again assumes zero money factor (finance charge)

Now as I posted in another thread, 359.99 is a very suspicious-looking number. If GM had said "under $360" instead of "$350" it would make sense. So maybe they're subsidizing it by $9.99 per month but only on a no-options car. Maybe Sharon's 43% residual figure is incorrect.

Note that these are net numbers.

Real world up front:

$2500.00 on signing - as advertised
720.00 destination charge
257.60 sales tax (figured on $3220 at 8% - will vary)
539.00 registration (California, from https://mv.dmv.ca.gov/FeeCalculatorWeb/newVehicleForm.do)
---------
$4016.60 Zero options, MSRP, no added scam fees, estimated tax and registration for California

Real world monthly lease:

$350.00 (GM advertised, may really be 359.99)
28.00 Sales tax at 8% - estimated)
---------
$378.00 (May really be 388.79 if base payment is really 359.99)

Real world purchase at lease end:

$17320.40 residual
1985.63 sales tax at 8% on $24820.40 - Add the $7500 tax credit back in, state taxable.
----------
$19306.03

Again zero options, zero scam fees, estimated sales tax of 8%.

The key questions that someone with a Volt about to be delivered need to ask:

* What would be the sale price of the car?
* Itemize exactly what I pay up front. How much of it is cap cost reduction?
* Exactly what is my lease payment? Does that include sales tax?
* If I decide to buy the car at lease-end, for what amount do I write the check exclusive of tax?

Residual and money factor numbers would be nice.

FYI, to convert lease money factor to equivalent APR, multiply by 2400 (regardless of lease term).

Excellent post, thanks Marty! I'm going to add that to the FAQ.

Has anyone found a good lease payment calculator online? The one I've used so far is the first Google hit (http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm), and is OK but it's Flash based and is a pain to do what-if scenarios with.

Excellent post, thanks Marty! I'm going to add that to the FAQ.

Has anyone found a good lease payment calculator online? The one I've used so far is the first Google hit (http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm), and is OK but it's Flash based and is a pain to do what-if scenarios with.

As soon as we get some hard numbers on the actual residual percentage, etc. I'll post a Google Docs spreadsheet and/or an Excel template. Keep in mind if you got here from the FAQ that there are a LOT of SWAGs and assumptions in that post. And we know the derivation of the word "assume".

I think there's some subsidizing in the $350 figure.

I have thought that for a while. My guess is that GM wanted to match Nissan's advertised lease price for the Leaf, so they kicked in some hidden money to buy down the lease, which usually takes the form of either a lower interest rate or a higher residual. That's one big reason I've decided to lease, because the "cash on the hood" is only being put there, if I'm right.

I have thought that for a while. My guess is that GM wanted to match Nissan's advertised lease price for the Leaf, so they kicked in some hidden money to buy down the lease, which usually takes the form of either a lower interest rate or a higher residual. That's one big reason I've decided to lease, because the "cash on the hood" is only being put there, if I'm right.

I agree! I'm leasing as well. If the battery and systems hold up over time, a low milage off lease purchase looks pretty good.

VIN63 is on the Truck heading East!

Of note, a member of this forum contacted me off-list and shared a printout of a lease proposal that is completely wacky.

Essentially, the $7,500 tax credit is omitted from the figures, there's a $795 "acquisition fee" tacked on, and a $2,000 "GM rebate" that supposedly expires January 3. Put this all together and there's an extra $6,295 sneaked in there if you get the "rebate" and an extra $8,295.00 if you don't. Residual is about 64%, making the buyout outrageously expensive. Perhaps an OK deal if you're sure you want to walk away at the end of the lease, a horrible deal if you would consider buying the car out. Money factor is a very reasonable .00025 but the $795 acquisition fee plus zero credit for the $7500 tax rebate kind of negates this.

However, the mileage quoted is 15,000 instead of 12,000.

My suspicion is that this dealer may be using his own non-Volt-customized leasing company as the numbers are really out of line.

Anyone else have firm lease quotes to share?

I have seen in several places and also confirmed by the dealer I am working with that US BANK is the lender behind the advertised $350 a month figure. While figures from other lenders might be interesting, we should wait until we know firm national US BANK figures before entertaining any lease offers by anyone else. This should be just a matter of 1-2 days from this point given some should be signing lease paperwork this week.

My dealer told me yesterday that they are not going with US Bank on the lease. They're supposed to tell me today what their terms are. Shields up.

Hopefully someone can get the scoop on the residual, added cost to the monthly payment per $1,000 of options, the cost for increased milage (15k) upfront, the penalty for miles over at the end of the lease, and if they have a 27, 30, or 48 month lease...

For the record, today's front page article is about the lease terms:

http://gm-volt.com/2010/12/15/chevrolet-volt-lease-terms/

It quotes the following US Bank lease details, provided by a dealer who said they came straight from GM:


US Bank (National)

Term: 36 Months
MSRP: $41,000.00
Selling Price: $41,000.00 [If dealer charges more, the payments change upward.]
Acquisition Fee: $695.00
Cap Cost Reduction: $2,000.00
Down Payment: $2,150.00
Balance/Amt. Financed: $37,545.00

Program Rate: 0.60

Program Residual: 43.00% (12,001 miles to 15,000 miles per year)
Low Miles Residual: 44.00% (12,000 miles or LESS per year)
Base Residual Value: $18,040.00
Federal Credit: $7,500.00
Contract Residual Value: $25,540.00

Program Payment: $349.51
Featured Payment: $350.00
First Month’s Payment: $349.51
Down Payment: $2,150.00
Security Deposit: $0.00
DUE AT LEASE SIGNING: $2,499.51* [plus fees noted below]
Advertised Due at Signing: $2,500.00

Total Monthly Payments: $12,582.36

Disposition Fee: $395.00 (Due at Lease End)

*Other Fees Due at Signing: All DMV Registration Fees, DMV Doc Fee, 8.75% Sales Tax on First Payment.

“The figures above are SPECIFICALLY for a Base Model Volt sold at MSRP only ($41,000),” said [the dealer]. “Add any options, dealer markups, increases in Sales Tax, etc… and the Payment goes up, or the ‘Out-of-Pocket’ down payment goes up.”

I think these are the most interesting items in that document:


Acquisition Fee: $695.00
Cap Cost Reduction: $2,000.00
Program Rate: 0.60
Disposition Fee: $395.00 (Due at Lease End)

Acquisition Fee: dealer padding? Or is this bank padding? Who gets this?
Cap Cost Reduction: paid by GM to subsidize/discount the lease?
Program Rate: interest rate? (0.60% APR)
Disposition Fee: dealer padding? Or is this bank padding? Who gets this?

My dealer appears to be going with another company (not US Bank) so I'm going to have to scrutinize their numbers closely.

Ouch. The numbers are looking a worse and worse but still a decent deal. I am still interested in the monthly payment for a $43500 volt and 15k miles per year. If it is over $450 before taxes I will be disappointed.

Chris, what mileage are you getting on your lease and what is the total MSRP for your volt?

I still can't believe the residual after 3 years 36k is only 44%. The prius is like 55% isn't it? Is everyone going to buy at the end of the lease? I really don't want to buy at the end of my lease....

Looks like no security deposit. 44% residual is just sad. Look forward to some of the further breakdowns and some real world examples posted by this weeks owners. Wouldn't be surprised they are all playing with their cars and forget about us quickly.

I think these are the most interesting items in that document:
Acquisition Fee: dealer padding? Or is this bank padding? Who gets this?


Normally the banks get both the acq. and disp. fees. It's pure "glom money", just tacked on profit from the banks, sort of like points on a mortgage, but you don't get a lower interest rate in return. Still, it's become common. It can be a negotiating point, though. All things are negotiable.

I'm waiting to find out lease terms today from my dealer.

I think the low residual is GM's way of acknowledging that they priced the car assuming a $7500 subsidy, which will not exist in a subsequent re-sale of the care.

If you take a base $41,000 vehicle, reduce it by $7,500, you get $33,500. 55% of that (a typical residual for a 3-year lease) is $18,425.

Now take the same $41,000 vehicle, and use a 44% residual, and you get $18,040.

Seems to reflect the fact that a subsequent buyer, without the tax credit, will value the car as if it were only worth $33,500 to begin with.

I'm wondering what "Program Rate" is. Could it be 0.6% annual interest? A low rate like that would be necessary to arrive at these payment numbers. 0.6 certainly doesn't look like a money factor.

My dealer told me yesterday that they are not going with US Bank on the lease. They're supposed to tell me today what their terms are. Shields up.

I would contact your Volt advisor about this. It's part of a national advertising campaign and you committed in good faith.

I think these are the most interesting items in that document:



Acquisition Fee: dealer padding? Or is this bank padding? Who gets this?
Cap Cost Reduction: paid by GM to subsidize/discount the lease?
Program Rate: interest rate? (0.60% APR)
Disposition Fee: dealer padding? Or is this bank padding? Who gets this?

My dealer appears to be going with another company (not US Bank) so I'm going to have to scrutinize their numbers closely.

Acquisition fee is bank padding. But considering the interest rate it isn't that bad in this case.
Cap. cost reduction is the amount of your up-front money that goes to reduce the amount financed.
Program rate looks like it might be APR, works to a money factor of 0.00025
Disposition fee is paid at the end of lease if you turn the car in. If you buy it this should not apply.

Cap. cost reduction is the amount of your up-front money that goes to reduce the amount financed.

I don't think so, Marty. There was a separate line for down payment.

The key question regarding the US Bank terms is the difference between "Base residual" and "Contract residual" and what that means in the real world.

This car has a much lower residual than most for a very specific reason. Typical residuals are in the 60% range.

What you need to consider about this and why you need to use extreme caution with the Volt when the dealer proposes a different leasing company is that the Volt depreciates by an extra $7500 compared to other cars the instant it is first sold or leased.

The federal tax credit of $7500 is only applicable to the new car buyer (or leasing company). A used Volt with zero miles on it is worth $33500 at MSRP.

What I hope is the case is that the "contract residual" is noted just for sales tax purposes and that the customer can purchase the car at lease end for the "base residual" but pay sales tax on the "contract residual". We really need clarification on this to make intelligent decisions.

If the buyout at lease end is the "contract residual", then this lease deal stinks to high heaven. If the "base residual", it is reasonable. Not great due to the acquisition fee, but reasonable.

According to corvette guy on te front page comments the contract residual is the price to buy at the end ifthey lease. I can't believe this is the case but if it is I know I won't be buying it lmao. It still may make sense to lease just to get out in 3 years unless the cara are really going for 26k which I can't imagine they will be...

What I hope is the case is that the "contract residual" is noted just for sales tax purposes and that the customer can purchase the car at lease end for the "base residual" but pay sales tax on the "contract residual". We really need clarification on this to make intelligent decisions.

If the buyout at lease end is the "contract residual", then this lease deal stinks to high heaven. If the "base residual", it is reasonable. Not great due to the acquisition fee, but reasonable.

I did get the money factor from my dealer at .00025, so the interest rate is indeed 0.6%.

If you take a careful look at those residual numbers and considering the 12,600 in payments, it's a pretty safe guess that the contract residual is what you can buy it for at the end. Yes it seems the bank is taking the $7500 fed. tax credit all for itself, but on closer examination they are footing the $2K cap reduction and the (money paid to themselves) $695 acquisition fee. The rest of the money, by my guess, is going into buying down the interest rate of the lease, because I'm guessing a standard bank interest rate these days for auto leasing is closer to 6%?

If you want to evaluate the lease vs. buy, you need to do a TVM calculation on a loan where the car is bought for $33.5K and paid down to the $25K residual value (what you'd still owe) in 36 months. Don't forget to also figure in the difference in tax money, because on a purchase you pay tax on the full amount, and on a lease you only pay on the $12,600 (the part you actually use.) I'd do it now for folks, but I'm pressed for time. Maybe later.

I did get the money factor from my dealer at .00025, so the interest rate is indeed 0.6%.

If you take a careful look at those residual numbers and considering the 12,600 in payments, it's a pretty safe guess that the contract residual is what you can buy it for at the end. Yes it seems the bank is taking the $7500 fed. tax credit all for itself, but on closer examination they are footing the $2K cap reduction and the (money paid to themselves) $695 acquisition fee. The rest of the money, by my guess, is going into buying down the interest rate of the lease, because I'm guessing a standard bank interest rate these days for auto leasing is closer to 6%?

Well, they're giving you the $2K capital reduction, but they take back $695 of that up front as an acquisition fee plus $395 at the end as a disposal fee (maybe not if you buy, not sure). So the "discount" cap reduction is actually only #$910.

The amount financed is really $12505 (37545 -7500 tax credit -18040 base residual) over three years. For this they get $6590 ($7500 less the net $910 "discount"), plus the 0.6% APR (not worh figuring).

I don't know about you, but $6590 to finance $12505 over three years is just plain outrageous to me.

The tax money is a wash. Yes, you don't pay it on sale, but you pay it at the end of the lease on the residual value. And who knows what the sales tax rate will be at the end of three years? Have you ever seen sales taxes go down?

Can I retain one of you to represent me in my lease v. buy discussion with the dealer? This is very helpful discussion...I expect I will be taken to the cleaners if I am not careful...


:cool:

Well, they're giving you the $2K capital reduction, but they take back $695 of that up front as an acquisition fee plus $395 at the end as a disposal fee (maybe not if you buy, not sure). So the "discount" cap reduction is actually only #$910.

The amount financed is really $12505 (37545 -7500 tax credit -18040 base residual) over three years. For this they get $6590 ($7500 less the net $910 "discount"), plus the 0.6% APR (not worh figuring).

I don't know about you, but $6590 to finance $12505 over three years is just plain outrageous to me.

The tax money is a wash. Yes, you don't pay it on sale, but you pay it at the end of the lease on the residual value. And who knows what the sales tax rate will be at the end of three years? Have you ever seen sales taxes go down?

Respectfully, that's not exactly true, but is a common misconception about leasing. The bank actually has to finance the entire amount of the car purchase. Think about it, the dealer collects its $41,000 when the car is delivered. That money comes from the leasing bank. The bank, of course, rightfully wants to collect interest on all that money they provided. A lease in many ways is like a loan, where at the end of the term you've paid down the principle to exactly the "residual value". This is where you can have some fun playing with a TVM (Time Value of Money) calculator (google it), where usually you can estimate lease payments with great accuracy and unravel what is seen by most people as a big, dark cloud of mystery. TVM lets you enter present value, future value, length of time, interest rate, etc. I believe if we went through that exercise precisely, we would find that the Volt leasing and financing costs are very close to one another, meaning plus or minus a couple thousand dollars, when comparing the US Bank lease deal to a buy (finance) and trade in 3 years later scenario.

There are some disadvantages to leasing, the 2 primary ones being that the vehicle is titled to the leasing company and not the "owner" (which in practice is usually a non-issue), and that if you want to get out of the lease early, typically under the contract you still owe all the remaining payments in full (this can sometimes be negotiated down, however.) There are also mileage limits, which people can get into some big trouble with, since overage can run around $0.20 a mile. The advantages are that you can usually "drive more car for the same amount of monthly payment", mainly because in the bottom line you will never attain any equity in the vehicle--after all, it was never really "yours" to begin with.

Another serious advantage is that the bank is the one taking on the risk of the future value of the car: let's say that in 2 years there have been 20 recalls on the Volt, documented battery fires, Hyundai brings out an EREV car just as good for $25K, and gas is $1.00 a gallon. Chances are your Volt in that situation is not going to be worth even the $18,000 of what they called the "base residual". But you can just walk away, and the bank has to eat the loss. Let's say on the flip side that in 3 years gas goes to $10 a gallon, the Volt's reputation is sterling, there's no Federal rebate on new Volts, and EREV cars are still in short supply. Then your Volt might be worth $30K or more, in which case you have the option of buying the car and flipping it for a profit, and the bank can't take that away from you even if the car is worth a million dollars. That's very much like insurance, and as usual, any kind of insurance costs money, which I would argue is why leasing is typically slightly more expensive when you factor absolutely everything into the mix for a typical car scenario.

volt11,

This is very helpful.

volt11,

Would you be willing to post a list of the five or three or ten questions folks should ask the dealer about the lease terms? With reports that some dealers are using different banks than the former GMAC, I see traps lurking.

Some of the questions so far if I understand correctly (always possible I do not!)...:

1. Who is the bank?

2. If not the one previously advertised, why not?

3. Is the $7500 credit baked in or not?

4. If not, wt[youknowwhat]?

5. What is the real residual value? By that I mean the bottom line amount I would pay if I wanted to keep the car at the end of the lease. So please correct me if I am using the wrong term.

6. What are these glom [your word] fees, if any? Front end and back end.

7. How much am I really paying to finance the 36 months? How do interest rates play a role here? Do I get a better rate for having a better credit rating, or is this not as much of a factor in a lease?

8. For a car like mine, which has all the options except the polished aluminum wheels, how is any increase in monthly payment calculated (how do we get from the $350 advertised for the base model to the --fill in the blank-- 400, 500, monthly payment I am being presented with. Is there anything in there that I don't want like service plans or Scotchguarding or some other fluff...

9. Miles limits. If I want more miles, can I pay for them up front, and is that more favorable?


Some of my reasons for considering a lease include some of the points you made. Can give the car back to GM if real problems and it takes a dive in value. Also, in three years, maybe Volt 2.0 is even better in some material way (this may be a neutral factor, buy v. lease...). I have also heard recently something called "Swap a Lease" advertised. Some enterprising folks have apparently created a market in which a person can transfer their lease to someone else, so perhaps one is not "stuck" on a lease as much as one might think?

Cheers!

OK, so I asked my dealer last night when he called if he could provide me with the lease terms. He got a print-out and left it for me at the front desk, which I picked up after work. After plugging these number into a calculator, I have a few questions which maybe someone here could help with. First, I can't figure out how the $2000 rebate is accounted for, and second it doesn't seem like the $7500 "credit" is accounted for in any way. I have e-mailed my dealer to see if he can provide some insight, but until I hear back from him I'm posting my lease form for those interested in taking a look at these numbers. FYI, the dealership is selling at MSRP and the options I got were Viridian Joule paint, leather interior, and parking assist/back-up camera.

631

Leela,

That certainly is more than the base 350/ month payment that was advertised. You are correct in that the 7500 credit is listed anywhere so perhaps that is the difference in the monthly price. Hopefully your dealer can clear it up for you.

volt11,

Would you be willing to post a list of the five or three or ten questions folks should ask the dealer about the lease terms? With reports that some dealers are using different banks than the former GMAC, I see traps lurking.

Some of the questions so far if I understand correctly (always possible I do not!)...:

1. Who is the bank?

2. If not the one previously advertised, why not?

3. Is the $7500 credit baked in or not?

4. If not, wt[youknowwhat]?

5. What is the real residual value? By that I mean the bottom line amount I would pay if I wanted to keep the car at the end of the lease. So please correct me if I am using the wrong term.

6. What are these glom [your word] fees, if any? Front end and back end.

7. How much am I really paying to finance the 36 months? How do interest rates play a role here? Do I get a better rate for having a better credit rating, or is this not as much of a factor in a lease?

8. For a car like mine, which has all the options except the polished aluminum wheels, how is any increase in monthly payment calculated (how do we get from the $350 advertised for the base model to the --fill in the blank-- 400, 500, monthly payment I am being presented with. Is there anything in there that I don't want like service plans or Scotchguarding or some other fluff...

9. Miles limits. If I want more miles, can I pay for them up front, and is that more favorable?


Some of my reasons for considering a lease include some of the points you made. Can give the car back to GM if real problems and it takes a dive in value. Also, in three years, maybe Volt 2.0 is even better in some material way (this may be a neutral factor, buy v. lease...). I have also heard recently something called "Swap a Lease" advertised. Some enterprising folks have apparently created a market in which a person can transfer their lease to someone else, so perhaps one is not "stuck" on a lease as much as one might think?

Cheers!

Hi E.L.,

Well frustratingly, I had written a good bit of my response to your post and then lost it by accident. Amazing there aren't more internet related shootings, I suppose. :mad: ;)

But in preparing that earlier (and now lost to the bit bucket) text, I've determine a couple of bottom line things: 1) go with the US Bank lease; 2) if your dealer won't offer it, call GM; 3) my rough lease vs. buy calculations show pretty much a wash for 3 years of ownership (see below.) Again, the market may find that you "won" or "lost" with the lease in the end, but in the lease case it's the bank taking the risk. At least in the lease scenario, you know for sure it will cost you $2500 down + $350 a month + $395 disposition (when you give the car back) you get $15,495 (plus state taxes of course.) If you bought the car outright, even if you could apply the $7500 up front to reduce your financing costs (which you can't but let's say), and assuming you trade the car in at the end for $20000, I estimate it will cost you $16,655 with a 5.94% loan (default that the loan calculator came up with) for the same 3 years of ownership.

FYI, my car is equipped just like yours. Based on talking on the phone with the dealer yesterday, I'm expecting the monthly lease payment to be $469 with tax. I'll be going over that in more detail when I sit down with him, but I think it's right in line with what one would expect.

As to the lease swap thing, I think transfer of leases has been done for a long time, but I've never attempted that. I think it's pretty safe to say that whenever you're trying to get out of a car within the first couple of years, even if you purchase outright you're going to take a bath, because that's when the biggest depreciation hit occurs.

One last thing here, I expect that people who really expect to load miles onto their Volts might want to go with financing, IF US Bank won't let you buy miles up front. I've inquired about that, too, and don't expect to hear back until tomorrow at the earliest.

Thanks Leela, So it appears the $3000 in options are costing you $110 a month???? That means you are spending $3960 for $3000 in options for the lease of the car and at the end they are saying they add no value to the car. WOW! Also is it stating you owe $3300 at signing? It also appears the milage upfront or the end is the same cost??? Is that $0.18 a mile upfront on top of the reduced residual?

I finally talked to my dealer's finance manager last night and this morning. As of last night they weren't signing up with US Bank because there were some requirements (minimum sales numbers?) that they couldn't meet, so he was going with Ally (aka GMAC). However as of this morning he reports that Ally doesn't have a Volt lease program -- they just have the $7500 0% deal that was announced last week. So now he's back to dealing with US Bank (somehow) and says he will have that package by tomorrow. I kinda wish he'd jumped on this a little sooner, it's not like I wasn't pestering them for the last 9 days straight :)

Also is it stating you owe $3300 at signing? It also appears the milage upfront or the end is the same cost??? Is that $0.18 a mile upfront on top of the reduced residual?

The $3300 is the $2000 down payment + tax on down payment + first month's payment + tax on first month's payment + Govt fees (i.e., title, reg, etc). As for the cost/mile over 12K, I have asked the dealership if we can negotiate a lower upfront cost/mile for some limited number of miles (1500 per year). We'll see what he says.

FYI, my car is equipped just like yours. Based on talking on the phone with the dealer yesterday, I'm expecting the monthly lease payment to be $469 with tax. I'll be going over that in more detail when I sit down with him, but I think it's right in line with what one would expect.

What is it before tax or what is your tax rate? I can live with $450 a month. Any idea on the increased milage cost?

Thanks

Thanks Leela, So it appears the $3000 in options are costing you $110 a month???? That means you are spending $3960 for $3000 in options for the lease of the car and at the end they are saying they add no value to the car. WOW! Also is it stating you owe $3300 at signing? It also appears the milage upfront or the end is the same cost??? Is that $0.18 a mile upfront on top of the reduced residual?

No - the $3,304.72 they say she owes at signing includes the $2,000 "rebate" - the balance of $1,304.72 seems to be a combination of the DMV registration ($604.75), the first month's payment ($504.97), and tax on the "rebate" ($195).

I ran the numbers on the lease with a straight purchase price of $44,100 and a residual of $26,904 (just over 61%), assumed a money factor of .00025, NO down payment, a $2,000 "rebate" that reduces the net capitalized cost, and assumed that you are financing the $695 acquisition fee and the $45 "document" fee, and get exactly what's quoted - a monthly payment of $460.10 (before taxes), which becomes $504.96 when taxes are added in.

If I run the numbers on the same formula for depreciation on a $41,000 base car, and this time assume an additional $2,500 down payment, I get $355.21/month (before taxes).

Weird way for GM to account for the tax rebate - they just jacked up the residual...

I ran the numbers on the lease with a straight purchase price of $44,100 and a residual of $26,904 (just over 61%), assumed a money factor of .00025, NO down payment, a $2,000 "rebate" that reduces the net capitalized cost, and assumed that you are financing the $695 acquisition fee and the $45 "document" fee, and get exactly what's quoted - a monthly payment of $460.10 (before taxes), which becomes $504.96 when taxes are added in.

But of course I've already given them $2000 as the deposit when I placed my order, so I don't see how the "rebate" can be applied to that deposit. To me, that $2000 rebate appears to be "missing."

What is it before tax or what is your tax rate? I can live with $450 a month. Any idea on the increased milage cost?

Thanks

When I spoke with the dealer, I did not write things down yesterday, so take this FWIW. I seem to recall him saying $419 a month without tax, which doesn't seem right at $469 with tax (since I don't think tax will add more than $40 a month). The sales tax in NJ is 7%. As I mentioned earlier, I'm still waiting to hear details on mileage options (if any), or the mileage overage cost.

One more thing I wanted to mention is that I expect the vast majority of these US Bank lease deals to execute at the exact MSRP. I found out not even any GM friends / family deals can be applied, nor will they take earnings from the GM card (which I think is completely bogus, but there ya go.)

Hi E.L.,

Well frustratingly, I had written a good bit of my response to your post and then lost it by accident. Amazing there aren't more internet related shootings, I suppose. :mad: ;)

But in preparing that earlier (and now lost to the bit bucket) text, I've determine a couple of bottom line things: 1) go with the US Bank lease; 2) if your dealer won't offer it, call GM; 3) my rough lease vs. buy calculations show pretty much a wash for 3 years of ownership (see below.) Again, the market may find that you "won" or "lost" with the lease in the end, but in the lease case it's the bank taking the risk. At least in the lease scenario, you know for sure it will cost you $2500 down + $350 a month + $395 disposition (when you give the car back) you get $15,495 (plus state taxes of course.) If you bought the car outright, even if you could apply the $7500 up front to reduce your financing costs (which you can't but let's say), and assuming you trade the car in at the end for $20000, I estimate it will cost you $16,655 with a 5.94% loan (default that the loan calculator came up with) for the same 3 years of ownership.

FYI, my car is equipped just like yours. Based on talking on the phone with the dealer yesterday, I'm expecting the monthly lease payment to be $469 with tax. I'll be going over that in more detail when I sit down with him, but I think it's right in line with what one would expect.

As to the lease swap thing, I think transfer of leases has been done for a long time, but I've never attempted that. I think it's pretty safe to say that whenever you're trying to get out of a car within the first couple of years, even if you purchase outright you're going to take a bath, because that's when the biggest depreciation hit occurs.

One last thing here, I expect that people who really expect to load miles onto their Volts might want to go with financing, IF US Bank won't let you buy miles up front. I've inquired about that, too, and don't expect to hear back until tomorrow at the earliest.

Very helpful, thanks volt11!

But of course I've already given them $2000 as the deposit when I placed my order, so I don't see how the "rebate" can be applied to that deposit. To me, that $2000 rebate appears to be "missing."

That explains why you had to pay tax on the down payment, which had been puzzling me...but you're right that this particular version doesn't seem to explicitly lay out either the $7,500 tax credit or the $2,000 "rebate" that was described in the earlier messages.

This new method seems to be less favorable to us, unless there's a different (much lower) residual that will be the price at which we have the option to buy the car.

But of course I've already given them $2000 as the deposit when I placed my order, so I don't see how the "rebate" can be applied to that deposit. To me, that $2000 rebate appears to be "missing."

I agree. I still can't get over the fact that a $1000 of options is costing us $37 a month. I would have got the base options if I knew there was 0 residual in the options and I would be paying $4000 for $3000 in options. Heated leather seats and a rearview camera aren't work 1/4 of my loan value, Wow.... At this price I may call and cancel my order even if the $1000 deposit is non refundable and save $3000 by going back to the base.....

I agree. I still can't get over the fact that a $1000 of options is costing us $37 a month. I would have got the base options if I knew there was 0 residual in the options and I would be paying $4000 for $3000 in options. Heated leather seats and a rearview camera aren't work 1/4 of my loan value, Wow.... At this price I may call and cancel my order even if the $1000 deposit is non refundable and save $3000 by going back to the base.....

Sorry, are you still talking about the US Bank lease? The residual should be computed as a percentage of MSRP, so a $1000 option will add $430 to the residual. If your lease is not working that way, somebody is trying to rip you off. A rule-of-thumb number is that the monthly lease price increases by $20 per $1000 MSRP, not including tax, and I think that will hold true with the Volt, +/- $2.

Thanks Volt11. I always assumed it would be $20 for every 1000 but according to LeelaLB's numbers it is working out to around $37 per $1000. I can live with $20 and assumed that. My lease will be for $43320 so I can live with a $400 payment before tax... If it is over that I won't be happy lol.

What is the buyout after three years??? That is all I want to know.

I have a lease information sheet from my dealer, and what I'm seeing there bears almost no resemblance to what was published at http://gm-volt.com/2010/12/15/chevrolet-volt-lease-terms/ . Supposedly the lease does come from US Bank. It's very possible that the bank has structured the lease differently in different states to arrive at the same $350 a month with $2500 up front (for a base car), where the one at the link is for CA and I'm in NJ.

I picked the sheet up on the way home from work tonight, from the sales manager. Since my salesman was off today, I have not had a chance to go over it with him. Impossible to tell from the sheet, because it's so cryptically structured, but my best guess is it's designed as zero up front (other than tags and dealership fees, perhaps), in which case the $469 a month with tax is reasonable and preferable to putting the $2500 up front (my car's retail price is $43,600 with options.) The interest rate appears to be higher @ 1.4% (lease annual interest is always the money factor times 24), and extra fees appear, but it also includes $4500 rebate. The "adjusted residual value" is listed as $26,684. It's also possible they're trying to switch in a less desirable lease program, which I predict would not go well for them. Will update after I speak with my salesman tomorrow. Again, once I finalize my lease, I will publish all the terms here.

Has anyone found a good lease payment calculator online? The one I've used so far is the first Google hit (http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm), and is OK but it's Flash based and is a pain to do what-if scenarios with.

Just another query ... Has anyone found a good one to use?


As soon as we get some hard numbers on the actual residual percentage, etc. I'll post a Google Docs spreadsheet and/or an Excel template.

Marty, could you post that spreadsheet / template as is, and we can adjust as needed? I'm getting down to the wire on my transaction.

My car came in today so I drove over to the dealer to see it (still covered in snow from the cold drive from MI east) but still a thing of beauty. I take delivery tomorrow. While I was there, we went over the numbers and I completed the bank paperwork. Lease terms from US bank were pretty much the same as was posted on this site a few days ago. Fully loaded list price of $44,195 (incl destination charge), 3YR, 12K miles/year, $2150 down and the acquisition, disposition fees indicated before comes out to $450/mo (+/- a few $/mo once all the final DMV fees, etc. are included and excludes sales tax). He had a sheet from US bank with all the details that, while I didn't get to keep a copy (I never asked) looked to be the same as was posted here and the $3,195 extra in options added about $100/mo to the payment.

I'm not a lease professional so don't know all the good, bad, ugly about this lease program but I can say, from what I saw, that the US bank lease program my dealer was using was pretty much as told to us.

Finance manager entered my details into the computer and by the time I had a late lunch and got back to the office, he called to say I was all set and he'd have paperwork from bank for me to take delivery tomorrow.

At recently as earlier this week, the dealer didn't seem to know much about the VOLT lease/finance programs though, by the time I sat down with the finance manager late this morning, he had all his "ducks in a row" and the application/approval process with US bank was pretty straightforward and not really any different to prior leases.

Many thanks to those more financially savvy whose explanations about lease v. buy were very useful. I'm a consistent flipper for new cars/technologies so will almost certainly trade the volt at the end of 3 years for something new. For me, happy to "rent" the car for 3 years knowing my costs are fixed and I can walk away at the end and, if by chance the actual value exceeds the residual, I may even make a few $ - it happened to me once before (though the benefit was measured in the 100's of $).

For those who chose to use it, the internet has really revolutionized the car buying process. The "black box" process of buying and financing a car is vastly diminished with the aid of a large, active community like this.

My dealer told me to leave 2 full hours for the delivery/training. Between the time I spent in the volt during the recent tour and the time I had in the car today, I don't know if there is 2 hours of delivery to do tomorrow :)

Did you happen to go over if there were any higher milage options and how much those would add on to the lease?
Thanks

Sorry, no. My daily commute is about 1 mile if I take the "long way" and, in a good week, I'll put on 50 miles so 12K/year is more than enough for me even taking into consideration my taking the car for a longer trip to visit relatives, etc. every few months.

It appears you both are paying around $30 extra on every $1000 financed over the base msrp? I still don't get this. That means you are paying the full $1000 over the life of the lease and don't see a penny back no know interest should be included but come on?? No residual at all for the options?

I am paying the car down (it is fully loaded) to the $41K to avoid paying the premium on options. I am shooting for a straight $350 a month lease payment.

Jerry

I have a lease information sheet from my dealer, and what I'm seeing there bears almost no resemblance to what was published at http://gm-volt.com/2010/12/15/chevrolet-volt-lease-terms/ . Supposedly the lease does come from US Bank. It's very possible that the bank has structured the lease differently in different states to arrive at the same $350 a month with $2500 up front (for a base car), where the one at the link is for CA and I'm in NJ.

I picked the sheet up on the way home from work tonight, from the sales manager. Since my salesman was off today, I have not had a chance to go over it with him. Impossible to tell from the sheet, because it's so cryptically structured, but my best guess is it's designed as zero up front (other than tags and dealership fees, perhaps), in which case the $469 a month with tax is reasonable and preferable to putting the $2500 up front (my car's retail price is $43,600 with options.) The interest rate appears to be higher @ 1.4% (lease annual interest is always the money factor times 24), and extra fees appear, but it also includes $4500 rebate. The "adjusted residual value" is listed as $26,684. It's also possible they're trying to switch in a less desirable lease program, which I predict would not go well for them. Will update after I speak with my salesman tomorrow. Again, once I finalize my lease, I will publish all the terms here.

Any word on your car, volt11?

Any word on your car, volt11?

Nothing so far, thanks for asking. I honestly can't think of any reason it shouldn't be there, other than it was not dropped directly at the dealer. It's like a pack of donkeys could have dragged it to NJ by now. Even if GM is deliberately trying to pace the deliveries, I can't imagine they'd keep an outside company's delivery truck parked somewhere when it could be delivering other cars. If it doesn't arrive at the dealership today, I'm going to launch a full scale investigation. I'll call my useless Volt advisor today as well (Tony I think it was transferred to? It was originally Debbie, but she went off the team early on, and then my file apparently fell into a black hole.) Believe me, I would LOVE to be giving high marks to GM for this whole experience, but I'd be lying. Given that I "know some people", I'm sure my experiences will be heard at least a little bit up the chain as well.

Nothing so far, thanks for asking. I honestly can't think of any reason it shouldn't be there, other than it was not dropped directly at the dealer. It's like a pack of donkeys could have dragged it to NJ by now. Even if GM is deliberately trying to pace the deliveries, I can't imagine they'd keep an outside company's delivery truck parked somewhere when it could be delivering other cars. If it doesn't arrive at the dealership today, I'm going to launch a full scale investigation. I'll call my useless Volt advisor today as well (Tony I think it was transferred to? It was originally Debbie, but she went off the team early on, and then my file apparently fell into a black hole.) Believe me, I would LOVE to be giving high marks to GM for this whole experience, but I'd be lying. Given that I "know some people", I'm sure my experiences will be heard at least a little bit up the chain as well.

Pretty shabby indeed.

I am paying the car down (it is fully loaded) to the $41K to avoid paying the premium on options. I am shooting for a straight $350 a month lease payment.

Jerry

Thats what I plan to do as well. Im going to hold them to the $350 payment.

Stilgar

Thats what I plan to do as well. Im going to hold them to the $350 payment.

Stilgar

I'm sure you already know but thought I'd point out, it should not require paying the difference between the base sticker price and your sticker to do that. Since the options add to the residual value (43% I believe), it should be some fraction required, let's say just over half. So a car with a $43500 sticker should take about $1300 more up front to get the $350 a month.

Also, this is very cheap money (ultra low percentage loan on the lease), so you may want to rethink putting any more down than you absolutely need to.

OK...what is the residual...anyone? 18K or 25K. After 36 months, what is the amount I would need to pay to keep this car????

And I guess someone more knowledgable than me could comment on the subtlety of raising the residual by $7500 to account for the tax credit. Is that just a wash as far as we are concerned? Or is there a tradeoff?

Edit: that is, someone that is already familiar with leasing subtleties, somebody besides chiefsfan :/

I am paying the car down (it is fully loaded) to the $41K to avoid paying the premium on options. I am shooting for a straight $350 a month lease payment.

Jerry

Ya but you are still paying the full amount for the options and seeing nothing back at the end of your lease. Your residual SHOULD go up even if you pay it down forcing the payments below $350 a month. Am I correct here guys????

I'm sure you already know but thought I'd point out, it should require paying the difference between the base sticker price and your sticker to do that. Since the options add to the residual value (43% I believe), it should be some fraction required, let's say just over half. So a car with a $43500 sticker should take about $1300 more up front to get the $350 a month.

Also, this is very cheap money (ultra low percentage loan on the lease), so you may want to rethink putting any more down than you absolutely need to.

I would typically agree with you but your not seeing any money savings based on the $30 per $1000 of options the people on the page before said they are paying. I agree it should only take $1300-$1800 total down to bring the cost down to MSRP but based on the $460 a month with taxes you have been quoted it is going to take $1000 for every $1000 upfront to get there. I can't get these numbers to work....

And I guess someone more knowledgable than me could comment on the subtlety of raising the residual by $7500 to account for the tax credit. Is that just a wash as far as we are concerned? Or is there a tradeoff?

I may be an idiot but I believe by raising the residual they are able to greatly reduce the lease monthly rate and for a lack of wording "Trick" the loan calculator lol. Its actually brilliant on GM's part but as everyone has pointed out and you well know, there is no incentive to buy at the end of the lease then since the residual is inflated well above market cost (i.e. the $7500).

Sorry, are you still talking about the US Bank lease? The residual should be computed as a percentage of MSRP, so a $1000 option will add $430 to the residual. If your lease is not working that way, somebody is trying to rip you off. A rule-of-thumb number is that the monthly lease price increases by $20 per $1000 MSRP, not including tax, and I think that will hold true with the Volt, +/- $2.

The advice and experience you and others are providing on this string are really invaluable to a sucker like me. However,.....I (in jest) wonder if this why your Volt is playing "Charlie on the MTA" games? (Or are you too young to know that old Kingston Trio song?)

I corrected my post above, meant to say "it should not require paying the difference..."

The advice and experience you and others are providing on this string are really invaluable to a sucker like me. However,.....I (in jest) wonder if this why your Volt is playing "Charlie on the MTA" games? (Or are you too young to know that old Kingston Trio song?)

If that's why my Volt is missing, they'll regret that decision if they care about their public relations image. That's all I can say right now.

As to how old I am, the answer is 51. But I don't know the song you mentioned.

OK...what is the residual...anyone? 18K or 25K. After 36 months, what is the amount I would need to pay to keep this car????

I still believe it is the 25k. That is how they are able to keep the lease payment low. If you use a residual of 18k you can never get the payment down to 350 a month. I also believe that a residual of 43% is pretty darn low and am not sure how they arrived at this number. I guess they think the car can't hold it's value or they made the number up and added back in the $7500 credit to make sure you can't buy the car at the end of the lease and they end up selling it in the low $20k's

My dealer told me residual value is 44% on 36 months/12K miles per year lease. I'm picking up vehicle this afternoon and, when I get home, I will be able to confirm the actual numbers per a US Bank lease.

If that's why my Volt is missing, they'll regret that decision if they care about their public relations image. That's all I can say right now.

As to how old I am, the answer is 51. But I don't know the song you mentioned.

I am sure there is not malevolent purpose, but you will (perhaps) enjoy the lyrics of this old song....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VMSGrY-IlU

Thanks travelguy. Can you ask for fun the cost upfront to bring you car back down to the original msrp and if there is even an option for a 15k lease and maybe find out those numbers. I doubt ull care because I'll be playing with ur new volt and I don't blame you lol. Congrats!

I played around this morning with an online TVM calculator to compute leases, at http://www.mortgage-a.com/mortgage_financial_calculators/calculator.htm .

To show how accurate this is, I plugged in the numbers from the US Bank lease details pub'd on http://gm-volt.com/2010/12/15/chevrolet-volt-lease-terms/ . Try it yourself:

Future Value: -25540
Present Value: 37545
Interest Rate: 0.6
Payments per year: 12
Payment per period: (leave blank)
Total # of payments: 36

Now click "Calculate" next to Payment per period and you'll get $349.34.

Then I checked on how that should change for my car with options. To get future value, I added (actually subtracted, since it's entered as a negative number) 43% of the MSRP difference, which is how it should work, since residual is computed as a strict percentage of MSRP (yes, I know they fudged around with how to apply the federal rebate, but the difference should still work this way):

Future Value: -26658
Present Value: 40145

Now click Calculate again next to Payment per Period and that yields: $391.44 . This should be very close to the payment for my car, plus tax, using the same US Bank program. You should be able to do the same for your car, which probably varies in MSRP. Remember, "Future Value" should be entered as the sum of: -25540 - ((<your MSRP> - 41000) * 0.43) .

If you're presented with an alternative lease you want to evaluate, don't forget that Percent Interest (usually not stated in a lease disclosure) is always the "money factor" * 24. Money factor can have other terms, like on my current lease disclosure it's stated as "Adjusted / Sell Rate". Good luck negotiating, don't get buffaloed! :-)

When I talked with my dealership last night, they confirmed that the price to buy out the car is indeed $26K. As others have said here, by adding the $7500 to the 44% residual, they are able to bring the residual up to 61% and thus lower the monthly payment. However, IMHO, this is unethical; if they think the residual is 61%, then they should use that value and apply the $7500 to the down payment to reduce the monthlies even further. I then wouldn't have an issue paying the 26K to buy the car outright at the end. What US Bank seems to be doing is using the $7500 as insurance. They think the residual is going to be somewhere between 44% (probably too low) and 61% (probably too high). If, after three years there are problems with the car or GM or whatever and the Volt is really only worth 18K, we will all walk away from our leases and US Bank will have to sell the car below the 61% residual, but they won't have really lost anything. If the Volt is really worth 26K after three years, then either we buy out our lease or US Bank sells the car for that amount, and they pocked the $7500. It is what it is. Needless to say I am now investigating auto loans in order to compare how I would come out in 3 years assuming a more realistic residual of something like 50%.

Now I want to say a couple of things about the residual. First let me say that, usually, when leasing you want the residual to be as high as possible. That's because to lower your monthly payment, you want: 1) the lowest possible capitalized cost (which gets lowered by discounting, rebates, etc.); 2) the lowest interest rate, or money factor possible; 3) the highest residual possible (this is why it's easier to offer better leases on cars with higher resale value.) The presumption in a lease is that you want to drive the car for the lease period at the cheapest possible cost, and then walk away from it.

With that said, I do believe it would have been better for us if the $7500 was used to pull down the capitalized cost rather than bump up the residual value, because it hurts our ability to buy the car at the end of the lease. It may not have been reasonable to expect that from the bank, though, because they don't see that money up front... they have to apply for and obtain the rebate from the fed at a later date.

Finally, even if you think you might want to purchase your car at the end but find that the RV is too high for the current market, all may not be lost. If you talk to the dealer that's taking the car in on behalf of the leasing company, you may find that they have the option to buy the car from the leasing company and put it on their lot. Let's say the wholesale value of the Volt at that time has gone down to $18K. The bank is NOT going to ask the dealer for $26K to buy the car, in fact they will likely offer it at wholesale. You may be able to negotiate with the dealer to have them buy the car and sell it back to you at a small profit. This happened to us with our Envoy XUV last year. Going off lease, GMAC wanted about $25K and WOULD NOT BUDGE OR NEGOTIATE regarding the buyout. We talked to the dealer, and in the end we bought the car for about $20K, WITH an extended warranty and 2 new tires included. I'm not predicting you'll do as well on the Volt, but remember this as something to look into 3 years from now.

When I talked with my dealership last night, they confirmed that the price to buy out the car is indeed $26K. As others have said here, by adding the $7500 to the 44% residual, they are able to bring the residual up to 61% and thus lower the monthly payment. However, IMHO, this is unethical; if they think the residual is 61%, then they should use that value and apply the $7500 to the down payment to reduce the monthlies even further. I then wouldn't have an issue paying the 26K to buy the car outright at the end. What US Bank seems to be doing is using the $7500 as insurance. They think the residual is going to be somewhere between 44% (probably too low) and 61% (probably too high). If, after three years there are problems with the car or GM or whatever and the Volt is really only worth 18K, we will all walk away from our leases and US Bank will have to sell the car below the 61% residual, but they won't have really lost anything. If the Volt is really worth 26K after three years, then either we buy out our lease or US Bank sells the car for that amount, and they pocked the $7500. It is what it is. Needless to say I am now investigating auto loans in order to compare how I would come out in 3 years assuming a more realistic residual of something like 50%.

See my post above where I did that yesterday. I also used 50% and the lease won.

OK, so I asked my dealer last night when he called if he could provide me with the lease terms. He got a print-out and left it for me at the front desk, which I picked up after work. After plugging these number into a calculator, I have a few questions which maybe someone here could help with. First, I can't figure out how the $2000 rebate is accounted for, and second it doesn't seem like the $7500 "credit" is accounted for in any way. I have e-mailed my dealer to see if he can provide some insight, but until I hear back from him I'm posting my lease form for those interested in taking a look at these numbers. FYI, the dealership is selling at MSRP and the options I got were Viridian Joule paint, leather interior, and parking assist/back-up camera.

631

Thought I would post this in comparison to the worksheet LeelaLB was given (attachment above). The invoice for our Volt had not been sent to the dealer when I went, so they gave me numbers for the base model.

641

Notice the increase to the residual with the added options.

Edit: The Acquisition Fee is $695. It didn't come through very well on the scan.

Thanks Volt11. I ran the same payments as you and came out to the same $390, my problem is everyone who has posted there numbers here from the dealers so far is completely off this number and in the $420-$450 range (before taxes). That is what is making me so frustrated. Any ideas? I can only think they are including their DMV fees and maybe the lease turn in fee upfront?

Thanks

Thanks Volt11. I ran the same payments as you and came out to the same $390, my problem is everyone who has posted there numbers here from the dealers so far is completely off this number and in the $420-$450 range (before taxes). That is what is making me so frustrated. Any ideas? I can only think they are including their DMV fees and maybe the lease turn in fee upfront?

Thanks

Just those fees wouldn't bump the payment that much. Without seeing the details of the leases in question I can't say, but it has to mean either the offered terms are different (higher interest rates, extra fees tacked on, etc.), or there are taxes already included in the quote (and the lease data sheet I have from the dealers DOES include taxes) and people don't realize it. One thing that's an unknown is what the credit score requirement is for the promotional lease. I know my score is very high, so if I find a discrepancy it won't be because of that.

I called my dealer salesperson (@ Pine Belt Chevrolet, Eatontown, NJ) this morning because in part I have questions about the lease, had to leave a message and now over 3 hours later he still hasn't called back. I also emailed my Volt Advisor first thing this morning, and now 3:10pm not a peep from that, um, "helpful person" yet. Car still MIA. Very frustrating for sure. It would be nice if everyone we dealt with in this was professional, but from GM down to the dealer level that seems to be too much to hope for.

Thought I would post this in comparison to the worksheet LeelaLB was given (attachment above). The invoice for our Volt had not been sent to the dealer when I went, so they gave me numbers for the base model.

641

Notice the increase to the residual with the added options.

That sheet looks like the legit lease deal, musicman. You have over $2000 in taxes and fees in there, plus the doc fee, and by my calculations you're about right on the money of a $350 a month (before taxes) lease. Will be interesting to see that sheet modified for your car with options.

I agree the sheet looks legit except for the initial payment $4500??? Is this true and if so why? I don't see the increased residual unless u mean there is a line for it under the ADJ residual... Thanks for posting!

I agree the sheet looks legit except for the initial payment $4500??? Is this true and if so why? I don't see the increased residual unless u mean there is a line for it under the ADJ residual... Thanks for posting!

Also not sure what was meant by the "increased residual", but my take on the $4500 initial payment includes $2500 from customer and the $2000 Cap Cost Reduction that it appears US Bank is contributing out of their $7500 tax break.

I agree the sheet looks legit except for the initial payment $4500??? Is this true and if so why? I don't see the increased residual unless u mean there is a line for it under the ADJ residual... Thanks for posting!

As Volt11 stated, I believe the $4500 is a combination of Cash (line 21) and Rebate (line 22).

Sorry I wasn't clear on the "Increased Residual" comment. There has been discussion in earlier posts about how it seems the cost of the options were not affecting the residual value therefore increasing the monthly payment. In comparing the worksheet I posted (no options) to the worksheet LeelaLB posted (with options) we can see the increase in residual to account for the cost of the options. Hope that is more clear.

Hi all. Just a quick update on my lease sheet. I got some clarifications regarding why the numbers didn't appear to add up. What they are doing with the rebate is using it to reduce the net capital cost of $44840 (MSRP + acq fee + doc fee) to $42840 AND they are applying it to my initial payment of $3304.72 so that when I go to pick up the car I would pay $1304.72. I reminded them that they already had a deposit from me and the response was that they did not account for my deposit anywhere. What they will do is apply the deposit to my initial payment and any left over will be applied to the net cap cost, reducing my monthly payments slightly. So, it appears that the issue is resolved. I also found out that US Bank will indeed allow you to buy extra miles for a residual point (15K/yr at 43% residual instead of 12K/yr at 44% residual). This works out to $0.05/mile for those extra 9K miles, which is totally worth it if you are going to be going over the 12K. For those wanting even more miles, he did indicate that it might be possible to go even higher, but since that's not my situation he didn't really delve into that.

Just picked up my volt. As requested by some, here are the details from the US Bank Lease

Vehicle Price: $44,195
Acq Cost/Fees: $795
Gross Capitalized Cost: $44,990
Capitalized Cost Reduction: $2,192.77 (base lease deal lists 2,150 - mine was a smidge more to make up for a small math error when i was originally quoted by monthly payment so dealer made up for it by increasing my cap cost reduction by $43)
Adjusted Capitalized Cost: 42797.22
Residual Value 26945

36 months/12K miles per year/25 cents per mile over
Monthly Payment 457.78

I asked about cost for higher mileage and the dealer did not know. This is pretty much consistent with the US Bank deal reported in other places.

My payment is $107/mo higher than the oft-quoted $350/mo for a gross capitalized car cost of $44,990 v. $41K used in the $350/mo financing example so, if my understanding of the lease is correct (which it may not be as I am not any kind of expert), I'm paying 3,852 more over the 36 months of the lease (107X36) for a car that costs 3,990 more than the base car or basically a wash. I could have paid the $3,990 upfront to get the payment down to $350 but my preference (which may be different from others) is to have the cash to invest otherwise over the term of the lease than pay it down further upfront.

I've come up with a way to take the US Bank numbers posted by CorvetteGuy and massage them to include options and different scenarios. The weird thing is that the monthly payment seems to be off by about $3 so I added a fudge factor. This may be due to the bank figuring on not getting the $7500 right away. Overall not that significant in terms of the overall cost of the car.

This lease is definitely NOT a good deal if you plan on buying the car.

Total cash paid doesn't include DMV or doc fees, they're there for figuring the amount you'll actually pay at signing.

Items highlighted in yellow are those you'll most likely want to tweak.643

Travelguy... WHAT???? This is horrible news unless that $451 includes your taxes and DMV costs... Can you clarify? So it really will be $30 for every $1000 over base.... Again I can't get this to work out since the residual IS higher but you still are not seeing a lower payment per $1000, aka $20 as stated by volt11... Where does the Acq Cost/Fee come in to play on the $350 base, is it the destination fee? If not why is that increasing your vehicle price to 44900? The acq cost is included in the 41,000 base on the $350 a month lease is it not? Im getting more and more confused and frustrated. Thanks for posting!

Thanks Marty. These numbers are the same as I come up with, but I just tried Travelguys numbers and it doesn't come out anywhere near his payment....

Im calculating from Marty's sheet for my car at $43310 MSRP and using 12k a year after tax (7.5%) my payments should $415 a month. This does not include DMV fees. I could definitely live with this but again based on what we are seeing the actual cost seems to be about $40-50 higher per month.

Hi all. Just a quick update on my lease sheet. I got some clarifications regarding why the numbers didn't appear to add up. What they are doing with the rebate is using it to reduce the net capital cost of $44840 (MSRP + acq fee + doc fee) to $42840 AND they are applying it to my initial payment of $3304.72 so that when I go to pick up the car I would pay $1304.72. I reminded them that they already had a deposit from me and the response was that they did not account for my deposit anywhere. What they will do is apply the deposit to my initial payment and any left over will be applied to the net cap cost, reducing my monthly payments slightly. So, it appears that the issue is resolved. I also found out that US Bank will indeed allow you to buy extra miles for a residual point (15K/yr at 43% residual instead of 12K/yr at 44% residual). This works out to $0.05/mile for those extra 9K miles, which is totally worth it if you are going to be going over the 12K. For those wanting even more miles, he did indicate that it might be possible to go even higher, but since that's not my situation he didn't really delve into that.

Hey, thanks a bundle for the information about additional miles. 5 cents per mile beats 20 cents, that is for sure, at least for those folks who know that 12,000 miles per year won't be enough....

Hope you have a great experience driving it off the lot and where ever the road might lead you!

I tried using Marty's sheet and came up with a number pretty close to mine. The big difference was the residual value. I think they factor that into the residual and don't otherwise count it as my residual came to ~61% instead of 44% then the lease payment comes out to just about $458.

Agree this deal doesn't make any sense if you plan to buy. I think they "baked" in the rebate into the residual. The payments come out lower but you are left with a distorted residual value if you wanted to buy the car at the end from the bank.

I know my driving habits well enough (I haven't owned a car in more than a decade that ever saw even 25K miles under my foot) that come 3 years (if not sooner) I'll be ready for something else (latest model volt, ???) so lower up-front $ was important to me.


Cash price $44,195.00
Due at lease signing (15K Miles)(See below) $2,649.41
Due at lease signing (12K Miles)(See below) $2,868.40
Acquisition fee (bank charge) $795.00
Cap. Cost reduction (GM discount)
Down payment $2,192.00
Amount financed $42,798.00
Federal tax credit

Fudge factor *

Net capital cost $42,798.00
Lease term (months) 36
Interest rate 0.60%
Money factor 0.00025

Base residual percent (12K miles) 61%


Base residual (12K miles) $26,958.95
Base residual (15K miles) $19,003.85

Contract Residual (12K miles) $26,958.95
Contract Residual (15K miles) $19,003.85
Lease Payment (12K Miles) $457.41
Lease payment (15K miles) $676.40

Travelguy. If u use the same residual as on your numbers on the base you can't get to the 350 a month though right? It appears they are applying different terms to your lease compared to the base. Also did you not get the 2000 in cap cost reduction? Your net capital cost is $2000 higher than both Marty and I are calculating. That right there could explain the $40 difference... Any thoughts? Thanks again for the help

A few notes on the Excel I posted. First, it is based on the US Bank numbers provided by CorvetteGuy for the purpose of scaling the payments based on options. It's not a general-purpose lease calculator. These numbers are way off from a standard lease because they are playing games with the $7500 tax credit. The US Bank finance charge seems to be very reasonable at 0.6% and there's a nice $2000 discount up front.

However, there's also a $695 acquisition fee and a $395 disposal fee so that $2000 discount is now only $910. And they keep the entire $7500 federal rebate. Conventional lease calculators don't look at the $7500 because it isn't part of the deal on any other lease.

If your dealer offers a lease other than the stock terms from US Bank, make sure they run the numbers on the net price after subtracting the $7500 that the leasing company gets.

There's a good explanation of how auto leases are figured at http://www.leaseguide.com/lease07.htm continuing on at http://www.leaseguide.com/lease08.htm.

Also note that there's a typo in the spreadsheet. The mileage figures in the descriptions, cells A4 and A5 are reversed.

Marty, Thanks but what is your take on the $40-$50 difference between your spreadsheet and the numbers we are seeing. I believe your spreadsheet is correct but the dealers seem to be doing something I can't put my hand on.....

Marty, Thanks but what is your take on the $40-$50 difference between your spreadsheet and the numbers we are seeing. I believe your spreadsheet is correct but the dealers seem to be doing something I can't put my hand on.....

Not sure. Are they based on the US Bank figures? I couldn't get the $349.51 figure to come out exactly no matter how I crunched it, hence the fudge factor added to the amount financed. Give me an example of the dealer numbers.

Just picked up my volt. As requested by some, here are the details from the US Bank Lease

Vehicle Price: $44,195
Acq Cost/Fees: $795
Gross Capitalized Cost: $44,990
Capitalized Cost Reduction: $2,192.77 (base lease deal lists 2,150 - mine was a smidge more to make up for a small math error when i was originally quoted by monthly payment so dealer made up for it by increasing my cap cost reduction by $43)
Adjusted Capitalized Cost: 42797.22
Residual Value 26945

36 months/12K miles per year/25 cents per mile over
Monthly Payment 457.78

I asked about cost for higher mileage and the dealer did not know. This is pretty much consistent with the US Bank deal reported in other places.

My payment is $107/mo higher than the oft-quoted $350/mo for a gross capitalized car cost of $44,990 v. $41K used in the $350/mo financing example so, if my understanding of the lease is correct (which it may not be as I am not any kind of expert), I'm paying 3,852 more over the 36 months of the lease (107X36) for a car that costs 3,990 more than the base car or basically a wash. I could have paid the $3,990 upfront to get the payment down to $350 but my preference (which may be different from others) is to have the cash to invest otherwise over the term of the lease than pay it down further upfront.

You've been had. I just ran your numbers with my spreadsheet.

1. They upped the acquisition fee by $100.
2. They completely omitted the $2000 capital cost reduction (GM discount).

The $2150 or $2192.77 in your case is the due on signing minus the first month's lease payment out of the $2500 you're putting down.

Keep in mind that it isn't a $44,195 car once the leasing company takes title. They'll immediately claim $7500 from the Feds making it a $36,695 car.

So not only are they keeping the $7500 rebate, they're not giving you the $2000 GM rebate and charging an extra $100 in fees up front over and above the $695, plus another $395 in fees when you turn the car in.

And 25 cents a mile over 12K is kind of steep.

Wow, thank you Marty for your analyses and the spreadsheet. I'll be digging into this over the weekend, in preparation for lease discussions with my dealer early next week. Still hoping for a Wednesday delivery.

Marty
That's awesome you put together that Volt leasing spreadsheet.
Automobile leasing variables are easily one of the most confusing and frustrating aspects in the business today IMO, and having someone here on the gm-volt.com forums that is so well versed on this topic is quite an asset!
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND ENERGY!
Sincerely
WopOnTour

I tried using Marty's sheet and came up with a number pretty close to mine. The big difference was the residual value. I think they factor that into the residual and don't otherwise count it as my residual came to ~61% instead of 44% then the lease payment comes out to just about $458.

The residual percentage of 43% is based on subtracting the $7500 federal rebate from the price of the car. That's fine, but then they add it back in if you want to buy the car at the end of the lease. As noted, don't do this lease deal if you typically keep cars over three years. Buying the car at the contract residual looks like a very bad deal.

As noted, don't do this lease deal if you typically keep cars over three years. Buying the car at the contract residual looks like a very bad deal.

I totally agree. In the end, I decided to go with the lease deal but I will be walking away at the end, unless I can work out a side deal with the dealer as volt11, and others I know who have had lease deals, have indicated is possible. Otherwise, I look forward to buying the next generation (AT-PZEV) version Volt or another manufacturers' PHEV/ZEV outright in three years. Technology is advancing quickly; I think we can all agree on that!

You've been had. I just ran your numbers with my spreadsheet.

Marty I would agree but everyones numbers are coming out as high as his based on the numbers we have seen. That is my biggest issue right now.... I still think your numbers are correct.

I might have been had though I did stand right behind the business manager at the dealership and watched him enter the details just as they were spelled out on memo from US Bank and directly into the computer. Unless he pulled some slight of hand when I wasn't looking, he follwed their guidelines as detailed. The document was labeled both for the Volt program and applicable in New York State so I don't know if local regulations, etc. played any part in the difference. My deal was always "at list price" My understanding of the extra $100 to start was a tire disposal/recycling fee imposed upon our local area. I also pay the 8.625% (ouch) state & local sales tax - our local sales tax is even higher than that in New York city.

In the end +/- $20-$40/month, I totally agree with others that this lease program is a bad deal if you intend to purchase at the end of the lease at the residual price. For me, getting a volt - and trying to be on of the earliest "early adopters" was more driven by emotion and interest in technology and "future thinking" than price so, even if I was had for a bit more, I'm happy with my decision and, for all of the 40 miles i've driven it so far, elated with everything about the car. It's sitting in my garage next to my 2010 Mercedes E350 AWD with pretty much all the bells & whistles and, so long as it's not snowing outside tomorrow, i'll be picking the Volt over the E <grin> (if the weather is bad, my emotional connection to the volt or not, I'm taking the AWD auto)

For me, getting a volt - and trying to be on of the earliest "early adopters" was more driven by emotion and interest in technology and "future thinking" than price so, even if I was had for a bit more, I'm happy with my decision and, for all of the 40 miles i've driven it so far, elated with everything about the car.

Good point travelguy2500. When I first started reading this thread a couple of days ago, I was seriously considering walking away from the deal. Something about us (taxpayers) bailing out the banks and automakers and then once again being taken advantage of just doesn't sit right. But at the end of the day if you get what you want at a price you are comfortable with, then enjoy it for what it is. It is like buying a tv or computer .. it doesn't matter what you pay for it today, you will find it cheaper tomorrow, so just buy it and enjoy it.

So like many others have said on this forum, I too will enjoy the Volt for 3 years and see what happens. Three years ago I leased a Toyota and can sell it today for more than the residual so, who knows, we might all be able to do the same with out Volts. Only time will tell.

Musicman, I am just like u were a couple days ago. About ready to walk away from this deal as well. I have the exact same reservations as you did. Hopefully I have a change of heart soon. Thanks

I learned something today I want to share real quick. One of the things dealers can do to add profit to the deal, and I'm talking still about the promotional lease, is to bump the money factor. There are three distinct bumps listed in the official GM/US Bank terms, which I may be able to share later in detail. The middle bump I can tell you now results in a money factor of .00059, not the original .00025. Again, multiply by 24 to convert money factor to annual percentage rate. I believe this is at the dealer's discretion to try to slip in, and the dealer receives most or all of the extra money from that. For example, the level I just mentioned at .00059 adds about $1400 to the total payments, which I would think is approximately what the dealer receives as extra profit. My guess is that this is going to be the main discrepancy we see between various members' lease payments.

volt11:

Fascinating. It sounds like everyone who is leasing through the US Bank promotion should verify they are getting a money factor of 0.00025. My question is where does this 0.00025 originate? Is it dictated by the bank?

I ask because I want to make sure I'm on solid ground with all the facts, in case my dealer tries to jerk me around with a higher money factor.

This is all extremely valuable information. My dealer quoted me with a much, much higher lease rate. Approx $580/month for a 43K a car with options, but still sold at MSRP. This was going through Allied, not US Bank. I told them we need to do it through US Bank...

I'm certain they have not yet accounted for the $2000 US Bank rebate. They claim it doesn't exist..

I can't thank you enough for all the valuable information, volt11! Looking forward to hearing more details (when you get a chance of course!) about the other "bumps" you mentioned.

Yes, changing the money factor is profit for the dealer. We were looking at advertised lease rates on another car before we decided on a Volt. Since we are perfect lease people (low miles, good credit, want more car for same per month), I got to learn many of the little tricks used. I told one dealer that I expect the money factor I know the lender is offering (read in forums about lease deals people were getting on that make/model). They changed from .00018 to .0060. They told me that is how their finance dept makes money. WTF?? I don't care to finance your finance dept. If I paid cash or used an outside lender, how do they make money then huh? Also, we have seen doc fees in the 200-300 range when they shouldn't be more than $50. Don't worry too much about the dealer making money. I am sure at msrp, there is a dealer holdback taking care of the dealer (GM not making money on it though).

I learned yesterday that the US Bank lease deal is only reserved for "Tier 1" credit scores, i.e. 720 and over....and specifically a FICO Auto credit score. So if you don't qualify, start thinking purchase.

Also, I learned that Ally financing, to purchase, reviews all purchases through their "commercial" division, not the traditional auto division. The finance manager at my dealership had never heard that from Ally before.

volt11:

Fascinating. It sounds like everyone who is leasing through the US Bank promotion should verify they are getting a money factor of 0.00025. My question is where does this 0.00025 originate? Is it dictated by the bank?

I ask because I want to make sure I'm on solid ground with all the facts, in case my dealer tries to jerk me around with a higher money factor.

After completing my final lease yesterday, I wanted to share a couple things I may have learned and also give you the final lease numbers.

I saw it stated by someone above that this deal is restricted to Tier 1 and above (super-tier), but I've seen the terms, as provided by US Bank on a GM-internal website that show the same deal applies down to Tier 3 (score 650+.) I will not swear by this as being what's happening in practice, especially for any variation of Volt that's not a strictly base model, which I'll try to explain.

So I went through a number of lease options with my dealer yesterday, and while I was suspicious at first, I eventually believed that US Bank kept changing the money factor on them depending on data they entered, including the amount of money down. Our best guess (meaning including the dealer) was that once you were no longer leasing a base Volt, US Bank starts to play a bit with the money factor. So remember yesterday that I mentioned there are a few levels of money factor bump that appear in the official lease? These are listed as "Reserve" with levels of 1%, 2%, and 3%, bumping the base money factor (of .00025) by .00017, .00034, and .00051 respectively (so the 3% reserve, whatever that means, comes to .00076, or the equivalent of a 1.8% annual interest rate). Originally I thought that was a dealer discretion thing to add a few extra dollars of profit. But based on what we saw yesterday, it was at least presented to us that US Bank itself starts selecting those levels based on money down, price of car, etc. Now this is not the biggest deal in the world, because we're still talking very low interest rates.

I'll give you an example: when the dealer entered the 12K miles/year deal with $2500 up front on my car, the money factor came back at .00042. When he changed it to $3500 up front (an extra grand out of pocket), the money factor went down to the advertised .00025! In the end, I chose a deal with $2500 up front and 15K miles a year, and the money factor came in at .00059.

Final result, 36 month lease on a $43,600 Volt, with 15K miles a year, sold at MSRP, for $457 / month, with $2500 up front to the dealer. That includes taxes and every other up front fee. The only thing it doesn't account for is the disposition fee at the end. BTW, NJ sales tax is 7%.

I'm satisfied with this deal. If in the end it turns out the dealer made a couple of extra bucks by increasing the money factor himself, I'm not worried about it. This is obviously a car that, in some markets, could be sold for $5K to $10K over sticker, and here we are leasing the most advanced car in the world for what I expect is less than Toyota Prius lease money.

One last note, I calculated that the difference in total lease payments between 12K miles and 15K miles was less than $500 total. If you had to pay the 18 cents per mile overage at the end for the extra 9000 miles, that would run you $1620. The upfront mileage bump is definitely a good deal.

Good luck dealing! :)

-Bob

Thanks Bob! Couple questions:

Did the $457 include your local DMV fees (i.e. registration)? What is the tax rate in your state? Are you paying taxes on the $7500 credit? What is the cost to buy the car at the end of your lease? Also is there a penalty in the end for the extra miles on the 15k (aka the extra cost of maintenance or depreciation (I assume depreciation was included with a reduced residual)?


If I can get mine done for $457 a month I am in unless you keep telling us you get 22 miles on each charge in cold weather lol. That may not cut it....

Thanks again.

Great info so far Bob. The only reason US Bank would/should change the rate given same customer info would be if the risk is higher. The less money you put down, the lower the risk. So, not surprising that if you get .0025 if you were to put down the difference in msrp (or some of it) between yours and the base model, but a little higher if you only put down 2500 or less. Dissappointing, but not surprising. The problem we are going to have in Texas I believe is we will have to pay about 2800 in taxes (even at 6.25) because we have to pay tax on the whole amount even on a lease. So, your 457 payment with change in taxes would likely be 500 or more.

... here we are leasing the most advanced car in the world for what I expect is less than Toyota Prius lease money.

Not really. Prius can be leased for much less - including $199 last year at times. Even otherwise you can get one for below $300.

BTW, I'm surprised that Volt - that has the range extender - comes with 12K miles standard and Leaf with 100 miles range comes with 15K miles standard :-)

Thanks Bob! Couple questions:

Did the $457 include your local DMV fees (i.e. registration)? What is the tax rate in your state? Are you paying taxes on the $7500 credit? What is the cost to buy the car at the end of your lease? Also is there a penalty in the end for the extra miles on the 15k (aka the extra cost of maintenance or depreciation (I assume depreciation was included with a reduced residual)?


If I can get mine done for $457 a month I am in unless you keep telling us you get 22 miles on each charge in cold weather lol. That may not cut it....

Thanks again.

Did the $457 include your local DMV fees (i.e. registration)? YES, everything was folded into that; don't forget I also gave them $2500 up front, which also covers the first month's lease payment
What is the tax rate in your state? 7%
Are you paying taxes on the $7500 credit? That's open to interpretation. Since the $7500 is used to bump the residual, I'm going to answer NO.
What is the cost to buy the car at the end of your lease? $26,248
Also is there a penalty in the end for the extra miles on the 15k (aka the extra cost of maintenance or depreciation (I assume depreciation was included with a reduced residual) Upon returning the car at end of lease, any mile over 45,000 total is 18 cents a mile.

As far as today's run, it was 23 EV miles, not 22! :-) Remember that was the very first full charge. I'm not jumping to conclusions, although the fact that it was below 25 (which was the low end of GM's "25-50" depending on conditions) was not making me jump for joy. My driving was gentle, except for one moderate and one brisk acceleration, both only up to 35-40 mph. 35 degrees F is chilly, but hardly extreme.

I'm not in the business of trying to make GM look bad. I bought my Volt with enthusiasm, which I still harbor. But I am concerned that if this kind of low range is commonly reported, it could put some serious tarnish on the gleam of the Volt, as well as GM. Time will tell, as I've said before I'm also not in the business of sugar coating the truth.

Not really. Prius can be leased for much less - including $199 last year at times. Even otherwise you can get one for below $300.

BTW, I'm surprised that Volt - that has the range extender - comes with 12K miles standard and Leaf with 100 miles range comes with 15K miles standard :-)

For one thing, I'm talking about a comparably equipped Prius, if you can even argue such a thing exists. If you go to their website and option a Prius up to the top, the site-estimated lease price is in the $500 range. You know, the thing could sh!t gold bricks, but it's still somewhere between homely and hideous and I would never want to be seen in it.

it's still somewhere between homely and hideous and I would never want to be seen in it.

Just think, you too could be a GM CEO!

Thanks Volt11, keep us updated as I know you will about your usage. I feel a little better knowing I should be able to get this done for ~$450 a month with 15k miles/year. My only concern is anything over 36k and the warranty is over and we will have to pay for any non drivetrain/battery repairs but that would happen with any lease. Thanks again.

Thanks Volt11, keep us updated as I know you will about your usage. I feel a little better knowing I should be able to get this done for ~$450 a month with 15k miles/year. My only concern is anything over 36k and the warranty is over and we will have to pay for any non drivetrain/battery repairs but that would happen with any lease. Thanks again.

A couple points there cheifsfan: the battery warranty is 8 years / 100K miles, and the powertrain is 5 years / 100K miles. Doesn't matter if you're leasing or buying. And the 3yr/36K bumper to bumper warranty on everything else can be extended under GMPP, for a price of course, which I always recommend to everyone. Honestly, if I were outright buying the Volt, I would not be concerned about longer term costs of ownership.

As far as today's run, it was 23 EV miles, not 22! :-)



Uggggggghhhh....

I tried using Marty's sheet and came up with a number pretty close to mine. The big difference was the residual value. I think they factor that into the residual and don't otherwise count it as my residual came to ~61% instead of 44% then the lease payment comes out to just about $458.

Agree this deal doesn't make any sense if you plan to buy. I think they "baked" in the rebate into the residual. The payments come out lower but you are left with a distorted residual value if you wanted to buy the car at the end from the bank.

I know my driving habits well enough (I haven't owned a car in more than a decade that ever saw even 25K miles under my foot) that come 3 years (if not sooner) I'll be ready for something else (latest model volt, ???) so lower up-front $ was important to me.


Cash price $44,195.00
Due at lease signing (15K Miles)(See below) $2,649.41
Due at lease signing (12K Miles)(See below) $2,868.40
Acquisition fee (bank charge) $795.00
Cap. Cost reduction (GM discount)
Down payment $2,192.00
Amount financed $42,798.00
Federal tax credit

Fudge factor *

Net capital cost $42,798.00
Lease term (months) 36
Interest rate 0.60%
Money factor 0.00025

Base residual percent (12K miles) 61%


Base residual (12K miles) $26,958.95
Base residual (15K miles) $19,003.85

Contract Residual (12K miles) $26,958.95
Contract Residual (15K miles) $19,003.85
Lease Payment (12K Miles) $457.41
Lease payment (15K miles) $676.40

Now that you've gotten your second Volt (lucky b*stard!), do tell: What were the lease terms for this one?

For one thing, I'm talking about a comparably equipped Prius, if you can even argue such a thing exists. If you go to their website and option a Prius up to the top, the site-estimated lease price is in the $500 range. You know, the thing could sh!t gold bricks, but it's still somewhere between homely and hideous and I would never want to be seen in it.

Now people have always told me that my Prius makes me look much more handsome. Reading the way you phrase it gives me a whole new perspective on what they are telling me. Thanks for that ;> ))

Bought the other one (they are next of kin vin 118 & 119) all this talk of leases was too much <grin>

Now people have always told me that my Prius makes me look much more handsome. Reading the way you phrase it gives me a whole new perspective on what they are telling me. Thanks for that ;> ))

:) That made me LOL.

You'll have to forgive me, as I'm very design-oriented and at least to my eyes Toyota design has been in the crapper for years. The last truly good-looking cars they made were the Supra and the last-gen MR2. They had a FANTASTIC concept sports car in 2007, called the FT-HS, but they must have fired that guy.

For reference, because I keep failing to find it, here is an excellent spreadsheet put together by highhandicapper that shows precisely how the US Bank leases are calculated. He posted it in a new thread a couple days ago.

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?5941-Lease-Calculator-for-Volt-U.S.-Bank

I'll eventually link to it from the FAQ ...

Oooookay ... I have spent pretty much all day sweating these lease details with my Virginia dealer. My car is about to arrive there. But I've come across one key problem in the lease numbers they have been giving me.

They are calculating sales tax on the residual.

They don't have the US Bank numbers completely in their system yet (US Bank is new to them) so they have been estimating the numbers using a different profile for now. And that profile wants to calculate sales tax on the entire capitalized cost of the car, including the residual, because they say that is what Virginia requires. All of the tax up front.

I am in Georgia. Everything I can find (anecdotes via Googling) seems to tell me that Georgia does not charge sales tax on the residual. Rather, they tax the payments (down and monthly). And indeed that is exactly how highhandicapper structured his spreadsheet (see link in post above).

Does Virginia really tax the whole thing on a lease? Should I definitely not let them charge me sales tax on the residual since I'm in Georgia? I'm really looking for confirmation that I have the Virginia and Georgia rules right. It's entirely possible that they don't know what they are talking about because (they said) they don't do leases that often, and I get the feeling they are a smaller dealership.

I'm right down to the wire on this one! I will be flying up to DC in the morning to get my car, so Right Now (tonight) is my last time to really analyze this in peace and quiet without the pressure and drama of sitting in a dealership's finance office ...

ChrisC

According to kiplinger.com, 5 states Arkansas, Maryland, Minnesota, Texas and Virginia charge sales tax on the entire sale price.
That is the bad news. There is some good news is that both the state I live in (TX) and Virginia charge lower rates for sales tax on cars.

According to the Virgina DMV site, the sales tax is 3%. The Texas state sales tax is 6.25%. This is compared to 5% retail sales tax in Virgina and 8.25% in Dallas County, Tx. In the end, this works out more since you are taxed on the residual value as well.

Either way, you should not be involved with this mess. You should pay Georgia sales tax, and title/registration fees. I would imagine that the all of the dealers use the same or similar third party software to make these calculations. Many dealer are willing to sell to out of state parties without batting an eye. You need to speak with a more experienced sales person. My 2 cents.

If anyone has previously leased another vehicle in the 5 states that charge sales tax on the entire price of the car -- Could you please adapt the excel worksheet by handicapper to account for different tax handling ? It would be useful to a great many people -- Thanks. (I have not leased a vehicle in Texas -- sorry)

References:
1) http://www.kiplinger.com/columns/car/archive/2008/car0107.html (bottom of page --next to the number 3)
2) http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/vehicles/sut.asp

I have bought multiple cars in other states and never paid sales tax in the state I bought the car. I can't see how this would differ with leasing. How did everything else go? Did it match the sheet? Hhis much is your payment before taxes? What is your msrp and does the payment include registration acq. fees and doc fees?

Thank you rtmey2000 for that well researched post! You just saved me some late night grief tonight and earned me another hour of sleep before my travel tomorrow. I'll let the dealer know that they are simply in error. I've been getting the feeling that this is a smaller dealer, with less volume, so they may not do out-of-state purchases too often. Now add the leasing which they've already told me they don't do much and it's a double whammy. They are simply in waters they are not familiar with. It's my money, so I'll help them learn :)

cheifsfan, none of it is nailed down yet, but I'll post my details here after the transaction tomorrow. They did use the 43% residual at first (high miles, over 12000) but I had them correct that to 44% (low miles, under 12000). At first he quoted the 0.00042 but I told him it should be 0.00025 since I have excellent credit. Also they threw in a $390 "consumer fee" that I'd already negotiated off the deal back in August.

All to be ironed out tomorrow, under the gun. Greeaaaat. Thanks again rtmey2000.

Good Luck Chris
I hope all goes well for you!
Bring that puppy home!!
:D
WOT

ChrisC

According to kiplinger.com, 5 states Arkansas, Maryland, Minnesota, Texas and Virginia charge sales tax on the entire sale price.
That is the bad news. There is some good news is that both the state I live in (TX) and Virginia charge lower rates for sales tax on cars.

According to the Virgina DMV site, the sales tax is 3%. The Texas state sales tax is 6.25%. This is compared to 5% retail sales tax in Virgina and 8.25% in Dallas County, Tx. In the end, this works out more since you are taxed on the residual value as well.

Either way, you should not be involved with this mess. You should pay Georgia sales tax, and title/registration fees. I would imagine that the all of the dealers use the same or similar third party software to make these calculations. Many dealer are willing to sell to out of state parties without batting an eye. You need to speak with a more experienced sales person. My 2 cents.

If anyone has previously leased another vehicle in the 5 states that charge sales tax on the entire price of the car -- Could you please adapt the excel worksheet by handicapper to account for different tax handling ? It would be useful to a great many people -- Thanks. (I have not leased a vehicle in Texas -- sorry)

References:
1) http://www.kiplinger.com/columns/car/archive/2008/car0107.html (bottom of page --next to the number 3)
2) http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/vehicles/sut.asp

I do hope someone can add that to the excel sheet as the people leasing in Texas and the other 4 that charge tax on the full amount on a lease can know the true cost. Basically you are usually looking at about $1800/$50 a month more just in taxes.

Paul (Cari's other half)

I do hope someone can add that to the excel sheet as the people leasing in Texas and the other 4 that charge tax on the full amount on a lease can know the true cost. Basically you are usually looking at about $1800/$50 a month more just in taxes.

Paul (Cari's other half)

Is handicapper still around? Can he mod his spreadsheet to show this?
BTW...I dont understand your "$1800/$50 a month more just in taxes". That looks like either $50 per every $1800, or $1800 per every $50...and either of those would be HUGE for a $40000 car....

Stilgar

Is handicapper still around? Can he mod his spreadsheet to show this?
BTW...I dont understand your "$1800/$50 a month more just in taxes". That looks like either $50 per every $1800, or $1800 per every $50...and either of those would be HUGE for a $40000 car....

Stilgar
I thought Paul meant $1800 for the period of the lease or $50 per month. ($50/mo X 12mo/yr X 3yr = $1800)

Basically, in Texas, you would be looking at 6.25%. So the spreadsheet would have you believe that taxes would be about 30 dollars a month for 36 months (little over $1,000). Reality is that taxes are paid on the full sale price in 5 states. So, leases in Texas on this car will run about $2800. So, an extra $1,800 if paid monthly would be an additional $50 on top of what is listed in the spreadsheet.

I would love to think that the $457 a month for a 44k volt would be possible as some people have seen, but not going to happen if we have to pay so much more in taxes. All it would take on the excel modification would be a second tax line where you say yes/no to living in the 5 states. If yes, and you enter the correct tax rate, it will figure it using the sale price.

Paul (Cari's husband)

Is handicapper still around? Can he mod his spreadsheet to show this?
BTW...I dont understand your "$1800/$50 a month more just in taxes". That looks like either $50 per every $1800, or $1800 per every $50...and either of those would be HUGE for a $40000 car....

Stilgar

I actually looked at modifying the spreadsheet, but it gets ridiculously complex because different states tax it different ways (in addition to whether the sales tax applies to the full amount of the car or to the monthly payments, some states tax the down payment and others don't, some states tax the acquisition fee and others don't)...Sorry.

I certainly see that it can get complex with the different state laws. It is a great spreadsheet as is, so I do plan to use it to make sure their numbers are close. My concern is unless we an experienced US Bank leasing person, they might not know how to show me the pre-tax monthly payment. If I can get that to match my figures, after tax should work itself out.

They are calculating sales tax on the residual. ... [they want] to calculate sales tax on the entire capitalized cost of the car, including the residual, because they say that is what Virginia requires. All of the tax up front. ... I'm right down to the wire on this one! I will be flying up to DC in the morning to get my car, so Right Now (tonight) is my last time to really analyze this in peace and quiet without the pressure and drama of sitting in a dealership's finance office ...

Hi guys, just following up after my post Tuesday night. I left a message with the dealer later that night that they clearly were charging the wrong tax, then flew up to DC the next morning, and by the time I got to the dealer they had figured it all out with US Bank. Their numbers were PERFECT.

Thanks again to highhandicapper, rtmey2000, volt11 and everyone who contributed in this thread. It got me up to speed on leasing and helped me get the dealer to the place I needed them to be to complete the transaction.

I'm up in the Northeast now, with a long day of driving (CS mode) behind me and the Volt is charging in the family driveway. I'll be back home early next week and will catch up here then.

Hi guys, just following up after my post Tuesday night. I left a message with the dealer later that night that they clearly were charging the wrong tax, then flew up to DC the next morning, and by the time I got to the dealer they had figured it all out with US Bank. Their numbers were PERFECT.

Thanks again to highhandicapper, rtmey2000, volt11 and everyone who contributed in this thread. It got me up to speed on leasing and helped me get the dealer to the place I needed them to be to complete the transaction.

I'm up in the Northeast now, with a long day of driving (CS mode) behind me and the Volt is charging in the family driveway. I'll be back home early next week and will catch up here then.

Glad we were able to help on leasing, Chris, and congratulations on your pickup! Sorry to hear in the other thread that your first impressions aren't too positive. About the need for silence during voice navigation, may I suggest that you hit the play/pause button?

I really love my car so far, except for the fact that the EV range kinda sucks. I'm probably averaging about 24 miles on a full charge, seems no matter how I drive or in D or L mode. Mostly these have been multiple shorter trips, so I'll have to do a longer destination, like 20 miles away and then back, to see how it does. Right now I'm most looking forward to getting the 240V charger, because I didn't realize how often I'd want to pump some quick juice into it (of course my short range has been a factor here, too.)

Anyway, good luck with the tire leak, and I'm sure we all look forward to your photos.

Glad to hear everything went well ChrisC. What was ur final payment and what all did u wrap into the payment?

Hey, thanks a bundle for the information about additional miles. 5 cents per mile beats 20 cents, that is for sure, at least for those folks who know that 12,000 miles per year won't be enough....

Hope you have a great experience driving it off the lot and where ever the road might lead you!

So LeelaLB, what was you final monthly payments?
Lester

So LeelaLB, what was you final monthly payments?
Lester

I ended up with $513/month for my lease. My MSRP was $44,100 and it is a 36 mo lease for 15K miles/year at a .00025 money factor with $2200 down ($2000 from the US Bank rebate and an extra $200 from the $1500 deposit I put down when I placed the order; rest of the deposit went to the first month's payement, title, taxes, and fees). I could have put more down to bring the monthly payment down but decided it wasn't worth it given the low interest rate (0.6%).

Thank's Leela. I was trying to figure the cost per mile. Using Volt11 numbers I came up with the following:

Volt11 numbers
Final result, 36 month lease on a $43,600 Volt, with 15K miles a year, sold at MSRP, for $457 / month, with $2500 up front to the dealer. That includes taxes and every other up front fee. The only thing it doesn't account for is the disposition fee at the end. BTW, NJ sales tax is 7%.
I roughed some numbers:
I seem to be missing something on this cost per mile thing. Here is how I see it:
Assuming you are going walk away at the 3 yr end of lease.
Volt11 paid 2,500 down + 457 * 36= 16,452 for a total of 18,952.
1895200 cents / 45000 miles = 42 cents per mile.
If I purchase:
It is 43,600-7500 = 36,100. I could have put that into a CD at Ally at 1.6% for 6 yrs and earned 3,456.
So 36100 + 3456 = 39,556. If I considered end life at 120,000 miles then 3955600/120000 = 39.55 cents/mile.
For 3 extra cents a mile I should lease.
What do you think?

so for Leela I estimate 1700+ (513*36)=20,16800/45000=44.8 cents a mile.

What is the disposition fee? How much is it?

Volt11 numbers

Final result, 36 month lease on a $43,600 Volt, with 15K miles a year, sold at MSRP, for $457 / month, with $2500 up front to the dealer. That includes taxes and every other up front fee. The only thing it doesn't account for is the disposition fee at the end.

so for Leela I estimate 1700+ (513*36)=20,16800/45000=44.8 cents a mile.

What is the disposition fee? How much is it?

I'd have to spend more time with the number than I have right now (leaving for to visit the family...in my new Volt of course), but I can say that really, by using the rebate, I put $2200 down as a cap cost reduction and $1300 to pay my first month's payment, taxes, title, and fees. I want to say that at the end the disposition fee is $395, but I don't remember off the top of my head. I also think that the $2500 Volt11 put down not only included cap cost reduction but also his first month's payment, fees, etc. Just make sure you compare apples to apples. Good luck on the number crunching!

I went to the dealer and had the US Bank Volt terms spec sheet with me. Dealer finance guy came in showing $537 per month. Said it was the US Bank deal for the Volt. I disagreed, showed him the specs. He disappeared for about an hour, came back within a dollar of the spreadsheet numbers. $383 per month plus tax, 15K miles, MSRP is 42205. My car is on a railcar last in Indiana, delivery next week.

Marty, if you put down the advertised $2,500 then you have an incredible deal with that MSRP and mileage. Way to go!

Marty,
Do you have a copy of that spec sheet - or a link to its source?

I went to the dealer and had the US Bank Volt terms spec sheet with me. Dealer finance guy came in showing $537 per month. Said it was the US Bank deal for the Volt. I disagreed, showed him the specs. He disappeared for about an hour, came back within a dollar of the spreadsheet numbers. $383 per month plus tax, 15K miles, MSRP is 42205. My car is on a railcar last in Indiana, delivery next week.Wow that's great! Obviously there needs to be better coprorate communications regarding the complete details of the US Bank's Volt lease. Many dealers use various leasing tools and calculators, then merely transpose the numbers onto the paperwork and say "please sign!"
I would recomend everyone review the various threads regarding these leasing issues before signing ANYTHING!
WopOnTour

Marty, now thats what I am talking about. If I can get anywhere near your number I will be happy. Too bad it will be after January 3rd....

I went to the dealer and had the US Bank Volt terms spec sheet with me. Dealer finance guy came in showing $537 per month. Said it was the US Bank deal for the Volt. I disagreed, showed him the specs. He disappeared for about an hour, came back within a dollar of the spreadsheet numbers. $383 per month plus tax, 15K miles, MSRP is 42205. My car is on a railcar last in Indiana, delivery next week.

Great deal!

Marty,
Do you have a copy of that spec sheet - or a link to its source?

It was a main article on this site, link here: http://gm-volt.com/2010/12/15/chevrolet-volt-lease-terms/

Also discussed and quoted in the early posts of this thread.

Marty, if you put down the advertised $2,500 then you have an incredible deal with that MSRP and mileage. Way to go!

My actual check was for $3506.49 but it included the taxes on the cap cost reduction, DMV tax and license, tire fees of $8.75, $45 doc fee (In California the maximum a dealer can charge is $45 for lease, $55 for sale) and the first month's payment. I financed the $695 acquisition fee as part of the lease. I got the $2000 rebate. Backing out all of the DMV fees, taxes, and other fees, my actual payment toward the lease was $2457.75. 18 cents per mile over 15,000.

Their original high figure had the wrong residual, didn't include the $2000 rebate, and the wrong money factor.

FYI, GAP insurance is included in the US Bank lease at no additional charge. You must carry collision/comprehensive with a deductible no greater than $500.

$5095 included downpayment and first month payment on $43,600.00 Volt
35 more payments of $370.26/mo. (15k/yr.)

My DP was high because I paid down to $41,000 so they would have to match the advertised deal without funny business. Made it real simple.

This car is SOOOOO AWESOME!
ONLY gripe so far is that SPORT Mode does not stick
Nigley gripe is I wish PRNDL would show in big letters as I select the gear on the Center Display. The steering wheel just happens to block my view of the PRNDL on the primary display.

Man I (and my Wife and my Kids) LOVE THIS CAR!!!!

Ken

Marty,
Thanks for the link. I remember reading the article.
My dealer doesn't believe anything that's not out of the mouth of US Bank or Ally...and most of those people have no clue!

Congratulations Ken!!

Great news! Our dealer has been invoiced! They are willing to do the paperwork today! Bad news, they state they are not setup with US Bank and don't do leases through them! Hewlett Chevy-Buick in Georgetown,TX. Sigh..

Paul (Cari's husband)

at price of $43,500 plus 3% sales tax, with $5K down, my monthly payment is $388.
this is for 15K miles per year
the 'residual value' at end of lease term is $26K, but the stated buy-out price at lease end is a bit under $19K to reflect the $7.5K tax rebate. There is also a $350 end of lease buy-out fee.
The other $2k GM rebate for leasing is mixed in, basically offsetting interest and/or other small fees.
The way I figure it out, my total cost IF I decide to buy is the same w the lease as if I was to buy outright now.

VA Volter

The way I figure it out, my total cost IF I decide to buy is the same w the lease as if I was to buy outright now

I did the math too, a few weeks back, and that is exactly what I came up with. It was break even between Own & Lease. I went with the lease.

Dan

Interesting. My lease agreement adds the $7500 back in, and the purchase price at the end of the lease is stated as $27,034.00

Doesn't matter to me, because by then I will want the Electric Caddy or Son of Volt or a flying saucer and do not plan to buy Proto Volt.

But it does make you wonder how the same bank (U.S. Bank) makes such a different deal with different people.

Any chance you can post the portion of your contracts where it says $19k as the end of lease buyout figure? Not that I don't believe you but I might not believe you guys... ;)

I don't have a scanner... but see U.S. Bank Motor Vehicle Lease Agreement - Closed End, Section 8, item 10: Purchase Option at end of Lease Term: $19,141. Common sense tells us that if the bank/dealer is getting the $7,500 rebate and leasee is also getting the $2K rebate, there is no way the buyout price could be much higher than $20K. They'd be charging about $10K in finance fees/interest over three years on what is essentially a loan of about $18-20K for the three year term... You could get better terms from Tony Soprano. Be sure to differentiate between 'residual value' and 'buy out' price, and make sure your lease agreement does.

I don't have a scanner... but see U.S. Bank Motor Vehicle Lease Agreement - Closed End, Section 8, item 10: Purchase Option at end of Lease Term: $19,141. Common sense tells us that if the bank/dealer is getting the $7,500 rebate and leasee is also getting the $2K rebate, there is no way the buyout price could be much higher than $20K. They'd be charging about $10K in finance fees/interest over three years on what is essentially a loan of about $18-20K for the three year term... You could get better terms from Tony Soprano. Be sure to differentiate between 'residual value' and 'buy out' price, and make sure your lease agreement does.

Fascinating. My residual value is listed as 26,684.00 and my purchase option is 27,034.00. How about a camera phone? You don't have a camera phone? You can take a picture of that section, email it to yourself, save it to your home computer, then post.

:D

Anybody else who has leased, can you share what your purchase option is listed as in the agreement?

Sorry to ask a dumb question.....but Ive read all the lease info I can and Im still not sure of the answer....
Is the RESIDUAL value the price I could buy the volt for after the 3 year lease?

Thanks in advance...

Stilgar

The residual value is what the bank believes the car is worth at the end of the lease. It is usually what you can buy the car for at that time (plus sometimes there might be a small fee 300-500 on top of that figure). It usually is not a good idea to purchase the car at that time, but many factors come into play. I would never lease with the plan of buying at the end.

Paul (Cari's husband)

You must remember there is also a 2000.00 rebate when you lease the Volt. I just leased mine and in addition to the 7500.00 credit, to lease owners there is also a 2000 rebate.

You must remember there is also a 2000.00 rebate when you lease the Volt. I just leased mine and in addition to the 7500.00 credit, to lease owners there is also a 2000 rebate.

Ahhh...but YOU dont get the 7500 credit. The bank does!

Stilgar

Ok I need help ASAP. The dealer is quoting me $500 a month for 2100 down and everything else wrapped into the loan. My MSRP is $43,100, tax is $1050, dmv fee of $600, doc fee of $200, 2000 rebate, acquisition fee of $700. I get $450 with my calculator. It appears handicappers calculator shows $500 BUT with his calculator a base volt is $390. I can't figure out how to get the base volt down to $350 with his spreadsheet or with the numbers my dealer is telling me. Can someone tell me the numbers that get the base to work volt to work out to $350 a month WITH FINANCING? Thanks!

EDIT: I think I got it. It appears they aren't including my down payment as a reduction to my net capilized cost. This should be deducted correct???? Handicappers spreadsheet is correct if I add in the down payment to the net capilized cost reduction.

Thanks!
P

Ok I need help ASAP. The dealer is quoting me $500 a month for 2100 down and everything else wrapped into the loan.

Yes, you do need some help here. The monthly payment is calculated from the Depreciation amount plus the Rent Charge. Total those two amounts and divide by the number of months of the lease (24 or 36 or whatever it is).

IMHO, there's little or no reason anyone should be paying any amount more per month than Chevy's publicized lease offers. Yes, you should pay a little more for a fully loaded Volt than a base Volt, but I think we're talking about very little difference, since the Depreciation would be similar, and the Residual Value on a loaded Volt should be more than a base Volt. How much more? I would say about 33% of the MSRP value of the additional options on the loaded Volt.