I have to wonder how some posts are held for moderation, while others are instantly posted. Regardless, this is my input to the Zenn thread.

Copied from Zenn thread:

I agree with other posters, that Zenn’s impact (intended or not) to the marketplace was to prevent investment / development of other energy storage techs like safe lithium ion chemistries, etc.

There are political forces out there, that desire a collapse of our economy, so you needn’t look for individuals or companies motivated by greed. I believe a more likely suspect is the socialist movement, hoping to weaken / reduce the more wealthy capitalist segment of society, while assigning blame to the capitalists themselves. Socialists especially hate that individuals can drive their own cars to do things or to meet people without the consent of their family, neighbors and / or government. They claim their motivation is environmental, but it is actually socialist - denying individual liberties that threaten their power structure. Automobiles give people the real power of assembly, and socialists absolutely can’t stand that.

Jason,

I think you are pushing the conspiration theory a bit far. A lot of democracy on this planet have socialist view/approach.

Hell, I live in Canada, free Medicare, a social net if you loose your job. A social net for new immigrant (they even have access to Medicare). So from your comments, somehow Canada is there to get you and remove your liberty?

In Europe, because of density it made sense to develop public transport, this as nothing to do with "removing freedom". You can drive a car if you want. They call that having a choice, since when having a choice is bad.

The US economy ended where it is now, not because of conspiration, not because of outside forces. It is where it is now because of greed, greeds of people who knew they couldn't afford a house and yet believe those money lender that with a 40-50 years loan with changing rate they could do it. By having the interest on that loan tax deductible (USA is the only country giving such tax break, so why pay fast when you don't pay interest). To same lender that saw a new scheme to make money by selling those same loan at prefix return that at the end he couldn't really garantee. And greed is you and me, it's contagious. No conspiracy, just greed.

No, America's prosperity after WWII was the result of liberty coupled with free market capitalism, and the infrastructure investments of those and previous generations. Unfortunately, leftists controlled our congress from the 60's until the mid-90's, leaving us without new investment in water resources, energy, education and other fundamental components of a healthy economy.

I have personally witnessed leftists infiltrating and subverting high tech companies with the intent of collapsing them. They have a larger agenda that is visible to those who care to see.

Really and here I though the Republican actually controlled the agenda since WWII :)

If you want a conspiration theory, look at the Bush family their link to foreign influences (members of OPEC) is public knowledge. It is actually easier make you beleive in this one then any other.

Stop blaiming others or cryptic conspiration theory... It doesn't help.

This is a politics forum pertaining to transportation policies - I can post what I damn well please. If you don't like it, don't read and don't post on this thread.

This is a politics forum pertaining to transportation policies - I can post what I damn well please. If you don't like it, don't read and don't post on this thread.

:):):)

Are you trying to limit my liberty now? I can't post here? Really? I think there is a scocialist in you ready to come out :D

:):):)

Are you trying to limit my liberty now? I can't post here? Really? I think there is a scocialist in you ready to come out :D

Not telling you what to do, just letting you know that I am well within the intents of this forum, and that you have the choice not to post, if you don't like it. Try learning what an IF / THEN statement means.

"A lot of democracy on this planet have socialist view/approach."

It is more accurate to call the U.S. a constitutional republic.

No, America's prosperity after WWII was the result of liberty coupled with free market capitalism, and the infrastructure investments of those and previous generations. Unfortunately, leftists controlled our congress from the 60's until the mid-90's, leaving us without new investment in water resources, energy, education and other fundamental components of a healthy economy.

I have personally witnessed leftists infiltrating and subverting high tech companies with the intent of collapsing them. They have a larger agenda that is visible to those who care to see.

I thought Joe McCarthy was dead. Guess not.

I bet it was socialists that ran GM, Ford and Chrysler into the ground? It couldn't have been incompetent, overpaid capitalist executives that made blunder after blunder as US market share fell for 30 years!

Better check under your bed tonight. Might be a Communist under there.

I thought Joe McCarthy was dead. Guess not.

I bet it was socialists that ran GM, Ford and Chrysler into the ground? It couldn't have been incompetent, overpaid capitalist executives that made blunder after blunder as US market share fell for 30 years!

Better check under your bed tonight. Might be a Communist under there.

The big 3 automakers had their hands tied for decades as the unions, with the support of a leftist federal government, dictated a business model that lost more than 60% of their market share to foreign competitors. Only now, with a new union contract and a cooperative federal government, can the big 3 re-enter the small car market and offer the most cutting edge technologies, to take back that market share.

The big 3 automakers had their hands tied for decades as the unions, with the support of a leftist federal government, dictated a business model that lost more than 60% of their market share to foreign competitors. Only now, with a new union contract and a cooperative federal government, can the big 3 re-enter the small car market and offer the most cutting edge technologies, to take back that market share.

Not a fact here is correct. The Big 3 built low quality cars and people got tired of it. Didn't the Big 3 come late to the idea of quality or am I missing something? Why have surveys of quality and customer satisfaction been consistent in declaring Big 3 cars deficient? Ever hear of a guy named Demming?

Oh, well. I'm sure you will never be convinced that the bureacratic, top heavy, sluggish, inbred and greedy executive management had anything to do with it.

The big 3 automakers had their hands tied for decades as the unions, with the support of a leftist federal government, dictated a business model that lost more than 60% of their market share to foreign competitors. Only now, with a new union contract and a cooperative federal government, can the big 3 re-enter the small car market and offer the most cutting edge technologies, to take back that market share.

The Big 3 built low quality cars and people got tired of it. Didn't the Big 3 come late to the idea of quality or am I missing something? Why have surveys of quality and customer satisfaction been consistent in declaring Big 3 cars deficient? Ever hear of a guy named Demming?

Oh, well. I'm sure you will never be convinced that the bureacratic, top heavy, sluggish, inbred and greedy executive management had anything to do with it.

I suspect you see nothing wrong with Bob Niardelli getting a $210 million settlement after being fired by Home Depot for destroying the company, then landing a job as chairman of Chrysler.

Not a fact here is correct. The Big 3 built low quality cars and people got tired of it. Didn't the Big 3 come late to the idea of quality or am I missing something? Why have surveys of quality and customer satisfaction been consistent in declaring Big 3 cars deficient? Ever hear of a guy named Demming?

Oh, well. I'm sure you will never be convinced that the bureacratic, top heavy, sluggish, inbred and greedy executive management had anything to do with it.

Greenman,

You forget that I worked at a GM factory, and witnessed with my own eyes the 10% average (over 40% on Mondays and Fridays)absentee rate, blatant sabotage, and refusal to produce at a reasonable rate out of fear of retribution from coworkers. I saw fantastically brilliant engineers and managers simply give up trying to fix things, as there was no budging the union workers. You simply cannot manage a company, when the unions and government conspire against necessary business practices - firing employees that abuse drugs / alcohol, don't show up for work, sabotage production, etc.

Greenman,

You forget that I worked at a GM factory, and witnessed with my own eyes the 10% average (over 40% on Mondays and Fridays)absentee rate, blatant sabotage, and refusal to produce at a reasonable rate out of fear of retribution from coworkers. I saw fantastically brilliant engineers and managers simply give up trying to fix things, as there was no budging the union workers. You simply cannot manage a company, when the unions and government conspire against necessary business practices - firing employees that abuse drugs / alcohol, don't show up for work, sabotage production, etc.

I didn't forget. I didn't know. I also worked at GM and witnessed many of the same behaviors. But I also so management that was stuck in old ways of doing things and not especially competent. Sure there were brilliant engineers but I don't think you are suggesting that 100% of union workers were as you described above.

There is plenty to blame for the demise of the Big 3. I would argue that it wasn't the cost disadvantage of using union workers as much as it was the management problem that they couldn't fix the quality and improve customer satisfaction. (Perhaps the unions contributed to the problem.) If people aren't satisfied with a GM car, they won't be loyal, repeat buyers. Once they have a better experience with a Honda or Toyota, they won't come back. That was the bottom line.

Once they have a better experience with a Honda or Toyota, they won't come back. That was the bottom line.

Correlation or cause / effect - Honda and Toyota build those vehicles in US factories with a non-union workforce.

Since the '80's, GM has greatly improved quality, mostly because mechanical engine devices were eventually replaced with electronic ones - carburator, distributor, transmission check ball valve body, etc.

Correlation or cause / effect - Honda and Toyota build those vehicles in US factories with a non-union workforce.

Since the '80's, GM has greatly improved quality, mostly because mechanical engine devices were eventually replaced with electronic ones - carburator, distributor, transmission check ball valve body, etc.

There are many variables relating to quality. Blaming the union for quality problems is clearly unfair. Engineering, quality processes and management are far more important. Do you recall that the Japanese have a collaborative management/worker production process that focuses on empowerment and partnership? This was never mastered by the command and control Big 3.

Yes, GM and Ford have greatly improved quality. They should be applauded. But, customers don't forget so quickly. Lost market share is hard to claw back, especially when perceptions remain strong. I think you will agree that it took them too long to narrow the quality gap. They are paying the price and will continue to pay the price.

Do you recall that the Japanese have a collaborative management/worker production process that focuses on empowerment and partnership?

It is their social / business model that prevents true innovation. Radical designs get no traction, because everyone must agree before moving forward. Risk taking and radical innovation is completely suppressed, so they always end up following someone else's radical innovation.

It is their social / business model that prevents true innovation. Radical designs get no traction, because everyone must agree before moving forward. Risk taking and radical innovation is completely suppressed, so they always end up following someone else's radical innovation.

I've spent a career watching innovators fail. Execution is far more important. What happened to Xerox, Polaroid, Tucker, even Apple? Apple is perhaps the most effective innovator in America and they lost the operating system war to Microsoft.

Now, I applaud what GM is trying to do with the Volt but they are still the underdog. Toyota and Honda are still the best bet to come out on top.

Toyota doesn't have to be the innovator. They only need to be better at execution.

I've spent a career watching innovators fail. Execution is far more important. What happened to Xerox, Polaroid, Tucker, even Apple? Apple is perhaps the most effective innovator in America and they lost the operating system war to Microsoft.

Now, I applaud what GM is trying to do with the Volt but they are still the underdog. Toyota and Honda are still the best bet to come out on top.

Toyota doesn't have to be the innovator. They only need to be better at execution.

Absolutely no disagreement from me on the need for execution, but if you've been following GM's progress on the Volt, you will have realized that they are greasing the skids and pulling out all the stops. With only slight delays, GM has been hitting all their marks, with no show stopping issues.

Given Toyota's and Honda's tone deafness to Americans request for a plug-in hybrid, I don't agree that they are the safest bet. If you are only interested in 2008 and 2009, yes, they have the small, high mileage vehicles, but no plug-ins.

Absolutely no disagreement from me on the need for execution, but if you've been following GM's progress on the Volt, you will have realized that they are greasing the skids and pulling out all the stops. With only slight delays, GM has been hitting all their marks, with no show stopping issues.

Given Toyota's and Honda's tone deafness to Americans request for a plug-in hybrid, I don't agree that they are the safest bet. If you are only interested in 2008 and 2009, yes, they have the small, high mileage vehicles, but no plug-ins.

I am happy that GM has finally come to their senses and I would really like to see the Volt as a big success. I don't agree that Toyota and Honda are tone deaf. As you know, Toyota already has a PHEV, perhaps not as pure as the series hybrid that I suspect we both favor.

Don't discount the level of customer satisfaction with Toyota products and the Prius in particular. I have a Prius, absolutely love it and would by another without a second thought. Customer loyalty is a powerful force for customer retention.

Perhaps a more important discussion will be what happens to Ford and Chrysler.

Perhaps a more important discussion will be what happens to Ford and Chrysler.

Good question, I will start a thread on that ....

"Automobiles give people the real power of assembly, and socialists absolutely can’t stand that."
Wow.
And here I thought it was the Constitution that gave people the real power of assembly.
Just think of all those Americans who lived & died before the automobile came into being.
Did'nt they realize that their right to assemble was'nt actual?
Living in those times, they should have known that their right to assemble was'nt real, but rather only a synthetic approximation.
Thank god for cars.

Wow.
And here I thought it was the Constitution that gave people the real power of assembly.
Just think of all those Americans who lived & died before the automobile came into being.
Did'nt they realize that their right to assemble was'nt actual?
Living in those times, they should have known that their right to assemble was'nt real, but rather only a synthetic approximation.
Thank god for cars.

Please; why don't you assemble your ass right here, without a car, or any other form of mechanized transport.

Wow.
And here I thought it was the Constitution that gave people the real power of assembly.
Just think of all those Americans who lived & died before the automobile came into being.
Did'nt they realize that their right to assemble was'nt actual?
Living in those times, they should have known that their right to assemble was'nt real, but rather only a synthetic approximation.
Thank god for cars.

Then you can't read. The Constitution gives you nothing. "The Constitution is just a god damned piece of paper" -- George Bush. It spells out certain rights that every living human being has because they were endowed to you by your creator that the founders thought were the most important and had to protected. The Constitution does not limit your rights, read Amendment 10. Unrestricted access to roads and vehicles allow for assembly of people across great distances. The founders had "cars", they were called horses. Your idea of freedom is a synthetic approximation to the reality due to your misunderstanding that government or the Constitution gives you certain rights that you do not already have.