According to this post:
http://www.thebigmoney.com/blogs/shifting-gears/2010/05/06/survey-says-electric-car-range-anxiety-real

Nissan Leaf may be enjoying the limelight at the moment and the early adopter drivers will adjust their lifestyles to live with the Leaf's range limitations. However, when the masses of people beyond the early adopters starts buying the EV's it could break its palatability when stranded juiced-out EV's and tow-trucks become a common sight. Range anxiety is real, and we don't have infrastructure nor power sources for larger batteries in EV's that require larger amount of energy for charging. Whole neighborhoods would then be annoyed by the constant brownouts brought about by the few people quick charging in the area. It will lose their appeal quickly.

The EREV's will then rule.

"we don't have infrastructure nor power sources for larger batteries in EV's that require larger amount of energy for charging. Whole neighborhoods would then be annoyed by the constant brownouts brought about by the few people quick charging in the area. "

Oh please, stop with the nonsense.

I'm sure range anxiety is real, I have met many people that are anxious about many little things.. but not everyone is like that.

Even with 1000 miles of range you will have people that will be nervous about it, they can see a power outage for a couple of weeks and then what do you do!!!.. and dont forget the danger of the charging such a big pack.

In any case Nissan is promising an upgrade in range by 2014.

In any case Nissan is promising an upgrade in range by 2014.
That's an odd thing for them to announce. It has to hurt their 2013 sales.

Americans are spoiled by oil dependence and all related tech. If a BEV 100 mile range isn't good enough for you people then go help clean up the oil spill in the gulf and learn some appreciation for clean energy, everything we own runs on electricity except our cars. Greed to monopolize on gas and oil sales in the early 1900's by the elite business men is how we got where we are today. To me gas is like crack, its time to end our dependence on this drug. Help save whats left of our planet.

This is exactly why I think an external towable generator would be the best idea. Then you could rent one for longer trips, or buy one if you go on long trips often enough. AAA or other services could bring them out to you in the event that you run out of juice somewhere.

Nissan Leaf may be enjoying the limelight at the moment and the early adopter drivers will adjust their lifestyles to live with the Leaf's range limitations.

Who said anything about adjusting lifestyles?
This buyer doesn't need to make any changes to his lifestyle, and I believe there is a market of many others that won't either.



However, when the masses of people beyond the early adopters starts buying the EV's it could break its palatability when stranded juiced-out EV's and tow-trucks become a common sight. Range anxiety is real, and we don't have infrastructure nor power sources for larger batteries in EV's that require larger amount of energy for charging. Whole neighborhoods would then be annoyed by the constant brownouts brought about by the few people quick charging in the area. It will lose their appeal quickly.

The EREV's will then rule.

Sillyness, there is tons of power available at night when most people will be charging. EREVs certainly will fill need, as do EVs. They compliment each other, rather than it being some sort of deathmatch you seem to envision.

Americans are spoiled by oil dependence and all related tech. If a BEV 100 mile range isn't good enough for you people then go help clean up the oil spill in the gulf and learn some appreciation for clean energy, everything we own runs on electricity except our cars. Greed to monopolize on gas and oil sales in the early 1900's by the elite business men is how we got where we are today. To me gas is like crack, its time to end our dependence on this drug. Help save whats left of our planet.

James Huber -- May I recommend that you not re-produce. Perhaps you have been around enough electromagnetic fields that you are already steril? Save the Planet -- Off yourself. Breathing is an addiction you have had for far too long.

Leaf doesn't get 100 miles on US mileage test; 100 mile is for Japanese mileage test.

Having said this, I recall reading one Japanese article about some dude test driving an EV as a candidate for his company fleet car.

He U-turned when he found that battery was depleting rapidly on an uphill driving, and concluded that EV wasn't ready for real world.

If the Volt can get 40 miles on 8kwh then the LEAF can get 96 miles on 19.2kwh.

Who said anything about adjusting lifestyles?
This buyer doesn't need to make any changes to his lifestyle, and I believe there is a market of many others that won't either.



Sillyness, there is tons of power available at night when most people will be charging. EREVs certainly will fill need, as do EVs. They compliment each other, rather than it being some sort of deathmatch you seem to envision.

I'm betting that many people will charge at their own convenience. For example if you go to work and the company allows recharging at the office. Many parking lots with ev recharging slots guess what time the recharging happens. You see I am absolutely right. While there are early adopters who will religiously recharge at night the allure of convenience defeats the unholy times.

The problem, if it happens, will be around 5pm in the afternoon.

I'm betting that many people will charge at their own convenience. For example if you go to work and the company allows recharging at the office. Many parking lots with ev recharging slots guess what time the recharging happens. You see I am absolutely right. While there are early adopters who will religiously recharge at night the allure of convenience defeats the unholy times.
And I'm betting that once there are tens of thousands of EVs on the streets and in the parking lots (which will happen long before they would have any effect on brownouts), the people running the parking lots will realize they have a captive audience that they can exploit by charging top dollar. Yes, I know, there are laws against that right now, but those laws will be changed, I promise you.

Despite all the "socialist" rants by extremists, we still live in a capitalistic society, and as capitalists we can always find ways to maximize our income and minimize our costs. If brownouts start to be a problem, that parking lot plug will easily cost ten times as much per kWh as the plug in your garage. Yes, there will be some who will use it anyway, but only the really desperate ones. That won't include many commuters, because commuters know what to expect, and plan for it.

I'm betting that many people will charge at their own convenience. For example if you go to work and the company allows recharging at the office. Many parking lots with ev recharging slots guess what time the recharging happens. You see I am absolutely right. While there are early adopters who will religiously recharge at night the allure of convenience defeats the unholy times.

Actually, no, I don't see that you are absolutely right. I see the above is absolutely your opinion, but that doesn't make it right.

I find it far more convenient to NOT need to plug in during the day at work, or anywhere else. By plugging it when I get home, I have a full charge in the morning and have no need to find a spot close enough to a plug to charge during the day.
Depending upon where you live, it is not only more convenient for many to charge at home, it is cheaper as night rates in some areas are much less than day rates.
I am curious if most people currently charge their phones at night, or during the day? I charge mine over night. I am sure there are some of both, but I do wonder when 'most' people do so?
I would also expect more time of day costs structures to appear in areas that don't use them as move EVs and plug in hybrids reach the market.

James Huber -- May I recommend that you not re-produce. Perhaps you have been around enough electromagnetic fields that you are already steril? Save the Planet -- Off yourself. Breathing is an addiction you have had for far too long.

May I suggest you are a rude faggot , go swim in the gulf and drown in the oil you love so much. I am a 17 yr old high school student and at least I know oil isn't clean tech and does pollute, do we need more oil spills to destabilize the economy and destroy the great planet that was given to us to enjoy.

And I'm betting that once there are tens of thousands of EVs on the streets and in the parking lots (which will happen long before they would have any effect on brownouts), the people running the parking lots will realize they have a captive audience that they can exploit by charging top dollar. Yes, I know, there are laws against that right now, but those laws will be changed, I promise you.



So the poor people that can only afford a BEV with 20 miles of range will have to pay hard at the parking lots.. while the rich ones with their 100 mile BEVs just drive back home.. oh my when will the social injustice end!

James Huber -- May I recommend that you not re-produce. Perhaps you have been around enough electromagnetic fields that you are already steril? Save the Planet -- Off yourself. Breathing is an addiction you have had for far too long.
May I suggest you are a rude faggot , go swim in the gulf and drown in the oil you love so much. I am a 17 yr old high school student and at least I know oil isn't clean tech and does pollute, do we need more oil spills to destabilize the economy and destroy the great planet that was given to us to enjoy.

James
Andy's seemingly abrasive comments were merely to create a deterrence to "spammers" joining these forums and spouting off with their own political views or pro/anti brand cheer-leading. You're first 2 posts (in which you replied to yourself- a clue perhaps?) are a prime example of what we all do not appreciate- perhaps reply to a few posts and participate in a few threads before you go off on your first rant. ;) We try to stay as non-partisan as possible around here, it's the only way to keep it from turning into a bunch of CAPS SHOUTING MATCHES LOL. So do yourself and us a favor and come here to discuss and learn about the VOLT and EV technology, but don't preach. To use a common colloquialism you're literally "preaching to the choir" around here.

We're mostly all EV advocates and early adopters.Many own and drive hybrids, or have owned/leased EV1s and CRVs, some have even designed and built their own EVs. So there is a ton of hybrid and EV expertise on this board. People that have been knee-deep in the technology, some for longer than you've been on this green earth . Although we can appreciate your passion, we certainly don't need a 17-year old student's sermons, so maybe keep that on Facebook for the benefit of those that know you.
But stick around and participate in real discussions and you just might learn a thing or two....
HTH
WopOnTour

PS> Here's a link to a thread discussing the current environmental catastophe in the gulf...
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=4571

James Huber -- May I recommend that you not re-produce. Perhaps you have been around enough electromagnetic fields that you are already steril? Save the Planet -- Off yourself. Breathing is an addiction you have had for far too long.
This is the kind of response we would expect from a Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh follower and does not belong in a responsible discussion.

Maybe Andy is just giving James tough love.. you are a young man and you should be optimistic..everything will turn out ok and we stand at the beginning of an era of incredible advances and bright possibilities. Dont dwell on the negative may happen things.

Why are you injecting politics into it?.. are you a hater?.. suffer from BDS?.. you see how bad it is when I start making assumptions?

This is the kind of response we would expect from a Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh follower and does not belong in a responsible discussion.

And this is the kind of response we would expect from a partisan hater.

Maybe Andy is just giving James tough love.. you are a young man and you should be optimistic..everything will turn out ok and we stand at the beginning of an era of incredible advances and bright possibilities. Dont dwell on the negative may happen things.

Why are you injecting politics into it?.. are you a hater?.. suffer from BDS?.. you see how bad it is when I start making assumptions?

who are you kidding? "Off yourself. Breathing is an addiction you have had for far too long" is not tough love, it says that I wish you were dead.

It was really more of an "If" - "Then" statement.


Save the Planet -- Off yourself.

Population is far more of a problem then oil.

How many "name your animal" are killed each year by humans
How many "name your animal" are killed each year by oil spills.
How many "people" are killed each year by other people.
How many "people" are killed each year by oil spills.

If James is so concerned for the environment, perhaps he should better understand the dynamics before spouting off the dillusions.

Randomness of the day:

The American Bird Conservancy estimated in 2003 that between 10,000 and 40,000 birds were killed each year at wind farms across the country, about 80 percent of which were songbirds and 10 percent birds of prey.

"With the increased capacity over the last seven years, we now estimate that 100,000 – 300,000 birds are killed by wind turbines each year," said Conservancy spokesman Robert Johns.

By our math, that comes to 274 to 822 birds a day killed by wind farms across the country.

So is that more or less than the number of birds that are likely to be killed by the oil spill in the gulf?

"According to official records, so far there has been one bird killed in the spill," said Steve Rinehart, a spokesman for BP.

-----

Spokesman for BP!?! That evil SOB. Perhaps he should be off'd first? :rolleyes:

According to this post:
http://www.thebigmoney.com/blogs/shifting-gears/2010/05/06/survey-says-electric-car-range-anxiety-real

Nissan Leaf may be enjoying the limelight at the moment and the early adopter drivers will adjust their lifestyles to live with the Leaf's range limitations. However, when the masses of people beyond the early adopters starts buying the EV's it could break its palatability when stranded juiced-out EV's and tow-trucks become a common sight. Range anxiety is real, and we don't have infrastructure nor power sources for larger batteries in EV's that require larger amount of energy for charging. Whole neighborhoods would then be annoyed by the constant brownouts brought about by the few people quick charging in the area. It will lose their appeal quickly.

The EREV's will then rule.


To this point; How much is the gasoline engine in the Volt worth? How about the fuel lines, tank, generator, and related hardware?

If this money was spent towards increasing the battery capacity of the Volt, how much more range would you have? How much of a weight change? etc...

Personally I would rather have the flexibility of the generator then the additional battery capacity, however the added capacity would be nice, esp if the generator could be towed.

My guess is that as batteries get better and more affordable, and people more comfortable with the range, and availability of charge locations, you will see the generator reduced in size and output capabilities - i.e. emergency 'limp' mode. For now though, it makes more sense exactly how it's being done. (at least in my opinion.)