Nissan prices its first electric car at roughly $25K

By Peter Whoriskey
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 30, 2010; 11:02 AM
The Nissan Leaf, the first of several electric cars being developed by major manufacturers, will sell for $25,000 including federal tax credits, the automaker announced Tuesday, making it roughly comparable to conventional autos and posing a significant test of consumers' allegiance to gasoline-powered vehicles...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/30/AR2010033001693.html?hpid=moreheadlines

That's after the $7,500 tax credit. No mention if it includes the battery or not. In addition you have to purchase a 220 volt charger for $2,200 and have a 220 volt line in your garage.

From the NYT:

The 2011 Nissan Leaf battery electric car, which will go on sale in the United States in December, will have a manufacturers suggested retail price of $32,780, a Nissan spokesman, Mark Perry, said Tuesday morning. Nissan prefers to describe the price as $25,280 inclusive of a $7,500 federal income tax credit.

I've never seen that the 240 volt charging station is required. If you're going to use it mostly for a 40 mile round trip commute you might not care. Anyway, half the price of the charging station can be offset by a tax credit.

I guess that's true but a full charge is supposed to take 14-15 hours at 120. I would not want to risk driving 40 miles on a partial charge. Just my "range anxiety" comfort level.

... In addition you have to purchase a 220 volt charger for $2,200 and have a 220 volt line in your garage.......

"...charging station, which Nissan estimates will cost $2,200 on average, including installation." The Leaf's price point and 100 mile range will make it very competitive and more popular than the Volt with the commuter set IMO.

I guess that's true but a full charge is supposed to take 14-15 hours at 120. I would not want to risk driving 40 miles on a partial charge.

But you can get a 50 mile charge in 9 hours or so (less if you believe the full range is 100 miles). As long as days where you use more than your usual 40 miles are rare you will usually start out the day with a full charge.

Now if you can get a low overnight power rate for only 7 hours or something then you're going to want the faster rate anyhow. That might be pretty common.

I'm sure the 220V is not required. For regular people who work 8 hours a day, that gives 16 hours of being plugged in which is plenty.

My guess is that GM will price the Volt about $2,000 more than the Leaf. About $35,499 for an after tax credit price of $27,999. That will put some serious heat on the Prius, Ford Fusion Hybird and even the Leaf. Of course for the first couple of years, it doesn't really matter what they price it at, they'll sell them all out before they even hit dealer lots.

Got my invite to reserve one on April 20th for 100$.

I think it's worth the 100$ to have the option open so I guess I will do it.

Also looks like you will be able to lease for 350$/mo

Go here for the details:

http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/pricing.jsp?dcp=tqd.leaf.MCR.March10Leafenews.HRN

As a resident of Georgia, the additional $5000 state tax credit will be a serious consideration of the Leaf versus the Volt which I don't think qualifies if I read it correctly:

"Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV): the lesser of 20% of the vehicle cost or $5,000 tax credit is allowed for the purchase or lease of a new zero emission vehicle provided the vehicle does not receive its electricity from an on-board combustion device."

I think the last part would exclude the Volt. The federal and state credits combined would price the leaf just over $20K which is hard to pass up. The only problem is I would have to purchase one in Tennessee as Georgia is not an initial market for the Leaf.

Robert,

I agree with your consideration of the Leaf. It always gets discounted by people here on the Forum and even more by the "Faithful" followers after the lead article.

The Leaf has merit. And Nissan is serious about this effort!

I still have:

Volt

Tesla S

Leaf

on my list. All are strong contenders.

Volt CS MPG will be a deciding factor for me. If it hits 50MPG, the project is a go.

No words on Leaf warranty yet, but I doubt it's gonna be 10 years.

For your reference, i-MIEV's UK warranty is 3 years.
In Japan, i-MIEV's warranty is 1 year + optional 4-year warranty(extra purchase).

The leaf can convenience charge on 120V but you are required to buy the 240V charger as part of the deal.

The other thing...this quick charge to 80% in 20 minutes...that has to be only from some high capacity charging station that doesn't exist yet. The battery charging limitations are not the battery chemistry...it's physics. You can only move so many electrons through a residential 240V outlet.

And believe it or not there are many of us that DO drive over 100 miles in a day. As much as I would like an electric car it would have to have the same range as a gas car and refuel significantly faster than today's electric cars.

The leaf can convenience charge on 120V but you are required to buy the 240V charger as part of the deal.


What is your source for that statement? According to Nissan's website (which seems to be remarkably thorough about hidden costs and limitations):


Nissan has announced it will be offering personal charging docks, which operate on a 220-volt supply, in tandem with the purchase process. Nissan is providing these home-charging stations, which will be built and installed by AeroVironment, as part of a one-stop shopping process that includes a home assessment and installation of the dock.

I read "one-stop shopping process" and "offering" as meaning you can get the dock at the same time, but it is really an optional separately priced item.

I'm seriously thinking about leasing a Leaf. The price is exciting. With the lease, there's no tax credit to mess with, and no worries about warranty or the longevity of the pack. In my climate there's little worry about range. There's no doubt in my mind that GM's battery is much more robust, but if I'm only keeping the car 3 years, it doesn't matter much. I imagine the EV landscape will have changed a lot when the lease is up.

For me, I think it's going to boil down to the cost of the Volt (vs. Leaf), performance, and safety. And maybe availability! We already know the Leaf's motor is about equivalent to a Volt with sport mode turned off. I'm guessing the Leaf might weigh less. Overall I'd expect the Volt is probably going to be more fun to drive, and I'm looking forward to some head to head comparisons.

I know the Volt's range extender is probably seen as a benefit for most buyers, but I'd rather have 80-100 miles of EV range and get rid of the maintenance the gas engine will require.

I'm seriously thinking about leasing a Leaf. The price is exciting. With the lease, there's no tax credit to mess with, and no worries about warranty or the longevity of the pack. In my climate there's little worry about range. There's no doubt in my mind that GM's battery is much more robust, but if I'm only keeping the car 3 years, it doesn't matter much. I imagine the EV landscape will have changed a lot when the lease is up.

For me, I think it's going to boil down to the cost of the Volt (vs. Leaf), performance, and safety. And maybe availability! We already know the Leaf's motor is about equivalent to a Volt with sport mode turned off. I'm guessing the Leaf might weigh less. Overall I'd expect the Volt is probably going to be more fun to drive, and I'm looking forward to some head to head comparisons.

I know the Volt's range extender is probably seen as a benefit for most buyers, but I'd rather have 80-100 miles of EV range and get rid of the maintenance the gas engine will require.

I have never leased a car before as you are essentially borrowing money and that implies an interest expense that I choose not to pay. However, for the reasons you stated leasing might be a good option.

I studied the lease thing a little. The following link is not bad.

http://financialplan.about.com/cs/cars/a/CarLeaseOrBuy.htm

One thing I did learn is that early termination of the lease usually results in a hefty fee so you will be stuck with the Leaf for 3 years. If one thought the car would hold it's value well, one might be better off to purchase the car and then sell it when you are ready. Obviously, then you have saved the finance fees.

I think there is a fairly good chance the car will hold it's value. I only base this on the resale values of the Toyota Rav4EV's.

I think there is a fairly good chance the car will hold it's value. I only base this on the resale values of the Toyota Rav4EV's.
There's less than 1,000 RAV4-EVs on the open market (and before the Tesla, I believe one sold for $80,000). With HUNDREDS-OF-THOUSANDS of Leafs released into the wild, the supply-and-demand equation is very different.

I have never leased a car before as you are essentially borrowing money and that implies an interest expense that I choose not to pay. However, for the reasons you stated leasing might be a good option.

Like you, I have never leased a car, and I never expected to. However, despite my gung-ho monicker, I am starting to have secret leanings toward leasing a Leaf for the reasons Bicster stated. My biggest problem may be that my wife is very proprietary about her Prius. She hasn't even let me have a key for it! Obviously if we got the Leaf her Prius would have to become our Prius for all long trips.

My only hope might be to get the Leaf for her and talk her into giving me her "old" car until I can get my dream Volt. But I know that will only work if I can get the Leaf in bright red.

I drive 37 miles one way to town. It is a 2500' elevation change. Anybody want to put some engineering calcs together and predict if the Leaf will do it (round trip=74 miles)?? I have a little program I wrote and I think I have formulated an answer.

Anybody want to put some numbers down??

Use the tesla charts, they are fairly close for most BEVs, it all depends on how fast you drive (average). The Tesla is not as aerodynamic as a Leaf or Volt but it wont matter much if you keep it to moderate speeds. Disregard the elevation changes since it will be a round trip and you will recover "most" of that wasted energy on the downhill trip.. unless you start your trip on the top of a mountain with a fully charged battery?

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog4/?p=70

250wh/mile at an average speed of 60mph.. so for 74 miles round trip that would consume 18.5kwh of energy.. add a couple of kwh for AC and you are in the dangerous territory of 20.5kwh.

20.5kwh is 85% of the total capacity, assuming you started at 100%. I would not take the battery down that far.. Most likely the Leaf will force you into the crawl-home mode at that point.

Consider slowing down to 48mph average and your consumption will drop to 16.8kwh (with the AC running).. that is only 70% of the total battery capacity and a conservative engineering practice.

Dont forget Jimmy Carter, speed kills!

http://www.drive55.org/

You are going to say: at 55mph I am going to get killed!

Thats why you want your Leaf to be bright red, or perhaps international orange.. here in Florida a green Leaf would be lethal :)

Use the tesla charts, they are fairly close for most BEVs, it all depends on how fast you drive (average). The Tesla is not as aerodynamic as a Leaf or Volt but it wont matter much if you keep it to moderate speeds. Disregard the elevation changes since it will be a round trip and you will recover "most" of that wasted energy on the downhill trip.. unless you start your trip on the top of a mountain with a fully charged battery?

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog4/?p=70

250wh/mile at an average speed of 60mph.. so for 74 miles round trip that would consume 18.5kwh of energy.. add a couple of kwh for AC and you are in the dangerous territory of 20.5kwh.

20.5kwh is 85% of the total capacity, assuming you started at 100%. I would not take the battery down that far.. Most likely the Leaf will force you into the crawl-home mode at that point.

Consider slowing down to 48mph average and your consumption will drop to 16.8kwh (with the AC running).. that is only 70% of the total battery capacity and a conservative engineering practice.

Dont forget Jimmy Carter, speed kills!

http://www.drive55.org/


Thanks for the input.

My dumb program came up with 19 kwh at 60 mph. I only assumed I would get 80% of the hill energy back on the way down.

19 kwh puts me exactly at 80% pack usage.

Question:

Will Nissan let you go beyond the 80% pack usage?? and what speed is crawl home mode and when does it kick in (at 80% pack usage??)

80% energy recovery is very good.. I would be very happy with that. I think the previous record holder was the T-Zero concept at 50%.. some of the university programs have achieved 90% + I have heard, but no details. No idea on the EV1 or RAV-4.

My guess crawl-home mode speed is 15-20mph?.. and with the AC off. The battery management computer will closely monitor all the cells at that point, when the first one drops to minimum (2.5v??) it will instantly shut down everything. Dont store the Leaf in that state.

I'm guessing Nissan will use 80% for the final shut down, they will discharge down to 10% and recharge up to 90%.

I'm guessing Nissan will use 80% for the final shut down, they will discharge down to 10% and recharge up to 90%.

I thought you said min voltage on one cell= 2.5 v would be final shut down??

Keep in mind that the Leaf's range will begin to degrade the day you buy it. How badly is anyone's guess. As far as I know the battery in the Leaf doesn't have much if any reserve capacity, whereas the Volt reserves a full 50% of its capacity and should still have the same AER in 10 years or more.

I've never leased before but I'm not sure the Leaf is a car I'd want to own. I'd have no problems buying a Volt and hanging on to it for 10 years or more because GM has made it clear how over-engineered the car is.

I normally keep cars for a long time - right now my family has a 2006 Legacy GT (fun as hell gas guzzler) and a 1994 Accord. We average about 15 miles a day. Now that I have two kids I'm leaning toward an EV as a primary car and a used minivan for road trips.