Prius PHEV (link) (http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/2010-prius-plug-in-hybrid-makes-149402.aspx)

From the article...

"This first-generation lithium battery has undergone more than three years of coordinated field testing in Japan, North America and Europe in a wide variety of climatic environments "

Hmmm... "three years." And to think HyperMiler has been telling us that Toyota wasn't doing anything about Li-Ion for a year or so.

Production has begun. Here are more interesting details:


"It’s All About The Battery

The battery powering the Prius PHV is the first lithium-ion drive-battery developed by Toyota and its joint venture battery production company, Panasonic Electric Vehicle Energy (PEVE). In early November, PEVE began producing the first of more than 500 lithium batteries on a dedicated assembly line at its Teiho production facility in Japan.

PEVE is the world’s leading producer of nickel-metal hydride batteries for automotive drive applications, having surpassed two million units in total production volume. Nickel-metal batteries are ideal for mass producing affordable conventional hybrid vehicles due to their low cost, excellent quality, high reliability and moderate-demand charge-sustaining operation. Lithium-ion batteries, on the other hand, are more promising for pure electric and plug-in hybrid applications which require higher energy density to meet the higher demands of charge-depleting operation (large swings in charge/discharge). And, although lithium-ion batteries are less expensive in terms of materials, they are more expensive than nickel-metal in terms of production costs.

This first-generation lithium battery has undergone more than three years of coordinated field testing in Japan, North America and Europe in a wide variety of climatic environments and driving conditions. Using approximately 150 conventional hybrids (mostly Prius), the field test vehicles logged well over a million combined miles. In the end, the battery was deemed both reliable and durable, confirming that it could indeed be used in conventional hybrid applications in the future, depending on further developments in cost reduction.

The battery will now be placed into service in the 500 Prius PHVs dedicated to Toyota’s global demonstration program which begins in December. Operating in a more severe charge-depleting mode, the battery’s overall performance in a broad range of vehicle-use applications will be confirmed."

Wow, they sure are very thorough in their testing of these batteries. They already tested the batteries for 3 years and now they are going to test them in fleets for who how many more years?

Toyota is taking a very conservative, yet very thorough approach (typical). But..............will they be behind the 8 ball??

13 mile electric range vs. 40 mile electric range? Hmm...Who's more advanced now? :)

igotzoom writes, "13 mile electric range vs. 40 mile electric range? Hmm...Who's more advanced now?"

You could argue that the Chevy Tahoe hybrid is more advanced than the Prius, too. It certainly has a bigger battery. Which one sells?

This isn't about advanced, it's about selling cars people want. Toyota has a good track record for value cars; not expensive that hold up well. This is a winning strategy. The Prius is in that mold; they sell it for $22K, which is something most new car buyers can afford.

Now, they add 13 miles of range to it. Sure, it's less than 40. However, does that matter? Actually, I don't think so.

Who's going to buy an electric car? People who really care about oil or the environment or whatever, right? They must really care or they wouldn't buy it, because it's more expensive than a regular car (the Prius PHEV will be more expensive, too).

Now, if they care enough to spend extra $$ for a car, don't you think they care enough that they've already been doing something about oil or the environment or whatever? In fact, they probably have. And they probably have a short commute. Now, if their commute is, for example 6 miles roundtrip (as it happens, that's how long my commute is), a car with 13 miles of range is more than adequate. A car with 40 miles range is big overkill. Why spend an extra $5K for a car that doesn't get you any additional benefit?

Here's another reason that the Prius PHEV makes sense... it doesn't cost Toyota much to build it. The Volt is entirely new and product development costs are massive. The Prius involves a bigger battery, a plug and... well, that's about it. Toyota had to test the battery to be certain they were comfortable with it but the car is otherwise very close to a stock Prius. There's little in the way of development costs so they can price it to sell profitably from the get-go. They're spreading almost all the engineering costs of that car over 500K units/year. GM is spreading the engineering costs of the Volt over 10K units the first year and maybe 60K by 2012 or perhaps further down the road.

If the Prius PHEV doesn't sell, Toyota is out very littlemoney. And they can revise the platform, as necessary, to accomodate bigger batteries later on.

Here's another thought... Is that 13 mile range pessimistic or optimistic? GM says, "up to 40 miles..." There's a lot of speculation about whether or not people will typically be able to drive the car 40 miles electrically or if it will routinely fall short.

The Chevy Cobalt XFE claims highway mileage of 37mpg. Three people with 2009s have reported in on the EPA website about their experience with the XFE and the average fuel economy is 34.0. Which is pretty good. But nobody has managed 37. They're probably wondering why.

The Corolla claims highway mileage of 35mpg. Forty-three people have reported in on their 2009s and the average fuel economy is 33.5. Several people have reported highway fuel economy of over 40mpg!

Here's another thing... the Cobalt XFE is a manual. The Corolla I mentioned is an automatic. Average reported fuel economy on the Corolla stick is 33.9. Real world reported fuel economy on the Cobalt automatic is under 29mpg!

Is GM likely to over-promise and under-deliver? Is Toyota? Is over-promising and under-delivering going to lead to enhanced customer satisfaction?

It all depends on the price. For most people that are expecting to save money by buying a plug in, make a lot of short trips and plug in in between, and don't like the idea of a $10,000-12,000 battery replacement cost for a car that might be worth $3-4,000 by that time this could be a far better choice. The Volt will have its market segment, and so will the plug in Prius..

Remember the GM executive who said "I can't see how they can make money out of the Prius"? Do you really want the Chinese to take-over the automobile industry?

I own a Prius and I love it. In the 2 years I have had it, since I took it home it has NEVER had to go to the dealer for work. The MPG meter is almost always on 52. (Except on long trips at freeway speeds especially if it's flat and level). It went out the dealer's door at around 26000$ with tax, not expensive. I am constantly amazed at what kind of room is in the hatchback-we put a bedroom chest of drawers in there.

But I want a plug in. I just spent big bucks on a solar PV array so not only will I drive w/o buying much gas I will drive on electricity generated by the sun. My friends think I'm nuts but I don't care, it's fun. I don't need to justify it economically.

Now the problem. Which PHEV do I buy. It can't be a pure BEV cuz I'm 38 miles from town and it's around 2500' elevation change. Plus I don't want 2 cars so it has to have ER, ICE backup.

Hmm, Volt or Prius. Right now I will say this. I like the Volt's 40 mi AER . But I am concerned about reliability issues with the car that I don't think I have to worry about w/ the Prius. And I am afraid I will be disapointed with the interior room. It's a smaller car. and.......we shall see about the CS mode MPG. Seems like thats a pretty big issue here. I am concerned that the added losses in the ICE to wheel energy conversion process will hurt the car. It just seems more efficient to put the power thru power split planetary directly to the rear wheels.

Time will tell.