Toyota just announced it will be producing a new hybrid only vehicle called the "Sai", that is in the same class as the Ford Fusion hybrid.

I think what we all should be looking at is the price for the vehicle at $37,500. If there is a market for a traditional hybrid at that cost, there will most definitely be a market for the Volt which could end up being cheaper.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Toyota-unveils-new-hybridonly-apf-2248369107.html?x=0

it is a cheaper version of the Lexus HS 250 Hybrid... eventually Toyota plans to hybridize everything they sell, if they can get enough batteries.

I think what Toyota will learn from this is how much money they left on the table by making the Prius so odd looking (no offense intended, just blunt analysis).

Seems like it would compete with Toyota's own Camry Hybrid.
Oh, and it's only available in Japan.

The Prius gets 38 kilometers per liter, which converts to about 90 miles per gallon under Japanese mileage-test conditions. It is promising 51 mpg in the city and 48 mpg on the highway in the U.S.

Say what? The Prius gets 90 mpg according to the Japanese? That's just ridiculous there is such a discrepancy (80% better fuel economy than the EPA says). Were they hypermiling in their fuel efficiency tests on it?

That makes the Sai look like a joke only getting 52 mpg. What is that in US EPA ratings? 30mpg? That's still ok for a luxury car I guess but I don't know if it's going to compete that well with the Prius that gets nearly twice the mpg and costs nearly half as much.

As for how much money Toyota lost on the Prius looking strange, so far the Ford Fusion hybrid and Camry which are decently nice looking cars, using the same technology, are only selling about 1/10th as well as the Prius.

"During the first six months since they went on sale on March 2009, combined sales of the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan hybrids reached 12,602 units"

19,173 - The number of Toyota Priuses sold just in July of this year.

http://www.allaboutprius.com/blog/1033899_2010-toyota-prius-sales-soar-boosted-by-clunkers-cash

And the Fusion hybrid is still qualifying for tax incentives.

Granted they lose a few sales to its weird looks, I agree, I've heard people laugh about how they look, but so far I don't think they can complain too much. The weirdness apparently does add quite a few mpg. It'll be interesting to see how the hybrid Yaris does, hopefully 60mpg.

Say what? The Prius gets 90 mpg according to the Japanese? That's just ridiculous there is such a discrepancy (80% better fuel economy than the EPA says). Were they hypermiling in their fuel efficiency tests on it?

That makes the Sai look like a joke only getting 52 mpg. What is that in US EPA ratings? 30mpg? That's still ok for a luxury car I guess but I don't know if it's going to compete that well with the Prius that gets nearly twice the mpg and costs nearly half as much.

As for how much money Toyota lost on the Prius looking strange, so far the Ford Fusion hybrid and Camry which are decently nice looking cars, using the same technology, are only selling about 1/10th as well as the Prius.

"During the first six months since they went on sale on March 2009, combined sales of the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan hybrids reached 12,602 units"

19,173 - The number of Toyota Priuses sold just in July of this year.

http://www.allaboutprius.com/blog/1033899_2010-toyota-prius-sales-soar-boosted-by-clunkers-cash

And the Fusion hybrid is still qualifying for tax incentives.

Granted they lose a few sales to its weird looks, I agree, I've heard people laugh about how they look, but so far I don't think they can complain too much. The weirdness apparently does add quite a few mpg. It'll be interesting to see how the hybrid Yaris does, hopefully 60mpg.

You're comparing a well established vehicle (the Prius) that has over 10 years of run time. The new Ford Fusion hybrid is brand new and is selling well in regards to other hybrids. Not only that, but over 60% of Ford Fusion buyers are not Ford owners, most of them were previous Toyota or Honda owners. Give it time.

What I also take away from the article that there is indeed a market for hybrids in the 30k range. The Volt is going to do a lot better than most naysayers believe.

khadgars: "You're comparing a well established vehicle (the Prius) that has over 10 years of run time. The new Ford Fusion hybrid is brand new and is selling well in regards to other hybrids."

The Fusion, itself, is well established. None of that rubs off on the hybrid model?

khadgars: "Not only that, but over 60% of Ford Fusion buyers are not Ford owners, most of them were previous Toyota or Honda owners."

Where did you get that figure?

Hendler: "I think what Toyota will learn from this is how much money they left on the table by making the Prius so odd looking (no offense intended, just blunt analysis)."

No offense taken to erroneous analysis.

Toyota is selling 18K of them per month in the US, although gas prices are, in adjusted dollars, back to the levels of the Sixties. It outsells, at retail, all but one GM vehicle. Including GM's fleet sales, it outsells all but two GM vehicles. The far more "normal" looking Camry sells perhaps 3 or 4K in a good month. Toyota makes money on the Prius and the weird looks help it achieve the magical 50mpg figure for bragging rights. Somehow, I don't think Toyota has a lot of regrets.

These cars sell on their capability and not on their looks. People for years said that Prius buyers wanted to parade their green cred around in a "lookitme" unique hybrid. The low sales of the Insight laid that claim to rest.

If gas prices advance again and climb over $3/gallon, Toyota will again sell out on a month to month basis and waiting lists and full MSRP, possibly even with "market adjustment" will become the norm.

The car is a complete success.

http://www.ford.com/about-ford/news-announcements/press-releases/press-releases-detail/pr-ford26rsquos-strong-hybrid-sales-31199


More than 60 percent of the sales of Fusion Hybrid are by non-Ford owners – with more than 52 percent of those customers coming from import brands

I've found this all over the place. It's on many websites, although I don't know how much it means because as I pointed out, they've sold 26,000 in 7 months (March, April, May, June, July August, and September). So they got 15,600 customers of 26,000 coming from other brands, only 52% were imports, guess what the foreign market share is? You got it, 52%. That means if you pick any random 100 vehicles in a Wal Mart parking lot, 50% of them will be foreign. It makes sense 52% of the Fusion customers would be import owners. It means very little statistically if you ask me.

I do however think that the Ford Fusion hybrid sales will continue to pick up, but they will have to get the price down another $5,000 and up the mpg to what the Prius gets if they want to top 200,000/year.

I think the Prius is a fine looking car.. looks would never affect my decision when buying a transportation appliance, they did when I was a teenager but not anymore.

Mmmm... that's about 1900 per month per basic model (Fusion vs Escape/Mariner). I don't know the actual split, of course, the page you referenced just gives the grand total.

Granted, it's way better than GM but, still...

Ford's in the game, that's for sure. They've got bragging rights in the "looks like a normal car" market with their EPA 41mpg claim. By all accounts, they're not losing money on the thing.

But it's clear that the Prius has hit the sweet spot and that Toyota's committed to building these things in mass quantities.

As you suggest ("get the mpg up"), I'd like to see Ford do a purpose-built hybrid, like the Prius. It would be very interesting to see if they could give it a run for its money (literally). And it would take a purpose-built car to do it. Small Atkinson cycle engine, all-out aerodynamic shape, etc. I think it would be OK if they sacrificed a little back seat and cargo room doing it but it would be preferable if they could match the Prius all around.

omnimoeish: That means if you pick any random 100 vehicles in a Wal Mart parking lot, 50% of them will be foreign. It makes sense 52% of the Fusion customers would be import owners. It means very little statistically if you ask me.

I have to disagree, we're talking about a market share shift, and weather or not there is going to be a trend and why would a large amount of import owners switch from an import to a domestic? Car ownership doesn't work like a simple spread sheet, there are many variables that go into purchasing a car, loyalty and satisfaction being pretty high up there. It's obviously to early to tell if there is a trend yet but make no mistake about it, American manufactures have reinvented them selves and put a lot of work in reshaping their image. These numbers are also telling;

"Ford Motor Company’s hybrid vehicle sales have risen 73 percent this year in sharp contrast to a 14-percent decline in hybrid sales across the industry. "

To further my point in regards to the market share, this article say it pretty well, that American manufacturers are gaining ground and it's really only the Prius that is keeping Toyota in front.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/091019-Ford-May-Take-Second-in-Hybrid-Sales-Race/

That will soon change with not only the Volt, but quite a few new models coming out from both GM and Ford. The next decade I think will be a lot better than most people realize for American auto manufacturers.

I think both the Fusion and the Insight missed the mark. For my money, I'll spend a little extra for the best MPG.

And don't make fun of the looks of the EV1. It and the original Insight look really retro with the fender skirts (which have a purpose, dah).

Does the Sai have a plug and run on the freeway all electric? If the answer is no, then I don't give a rat's ass about it.

I think both the Fusion and the Insight missed the mark. For my money, I'll spend a little extra for the best MPG.

You mean you would spend less to get the Prius which has 11 mpg better fuel economy (about $3,000 less). Yes, I agree.

The part about Ford outselling themselves last year makes a lot of sense because they only hybrid they had up until March 2009 was the Escape.

The Ford Fusion is that at its core, using Toyota's hybrid technology. It makes sense that for people looking for a hybrid and like the idea of driving a normal looking car, the Ford Fusion is about the only option. The bottom line is that most people are still choosing the Prius, about 1 in 10 people will go for the Fusion Hybrid.

I do agree that Ford is slowly but surely pulling their reliability perception out of the gutter. I'm happy for them and for all Ford employees and customers.

The Sai is basically a Lexus HS

http://www.lexus.com/models/HSh/

with a Toyota badge for Japan. Read here to find out why.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_13/b4077072420049.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_bu sinessweek+exclusives

The short answer is that Lexus was a brand made to compete with German luxury cars in the US because Americans are willing to pay more for higher "class" (image and perception) cars. Toyota's recently brought Lexus to compete with German cars in Japan and it's just not a high selling brand.

I agree though, there is obviously a market for more expensive hybrids. As long as they have the class and luxury to back it up. I hope the Volt can.

I have to disagree, we're talking about a market share shift, and weather or not there is going to be a trend and why would a large amount of import owners switch from an import to a domestic? Car ownership doesn't work like a simple spread sheet, there are many variables that go into purchasing a car, loyalty and satisfaction being pretty high up there.


Found this on ChevroletVoltage.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FkUDgzdFKU&feature=player_embedded#at=16

"39% of customers who walk into a dealership will go to a completely different brand if they can't get the color they want."

Still think that the fact that 52% were previous foreign owners says anything?

Hehe, I'm just playing with you.

I guess a good question would be to ask how many Prius customers were previous domestic owners. That would be interesting. I think a lot of people buy American for big SUVs and trucks, and they buy Japanese for their sedans. Now that Ford is making nice small cars again, it makes sense they are gaining back some of that market share from the Japanese.