http://www.hybridcars.com/news/hyundai-goes-super-green-frankfurt-auto-show-26076.html



OK, a lot of these may be concepts, but if hyundai can bring these to the marketplace at an affordable price, then they will be big sellers.:cool:

http://www.hybridcars.com/news/hyundai-goes-super-green-frankfurt-auto-show-26076.html



OK, a lot of these may be concepts, but if hyundai can bring these to the marketplace at an affordable price, then they will be big sellers.:cool:




If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts we would all have a very fine Christmas. ;)

Tex, let's accept that in your house, and my house, we think it's a good thing - more competition getting to the marketplace is to be welomed IMHO

Go ahead and prove me wrong...:D

http://www.hybridcars.com/news/european-carmakers-embrace-plug-cars-26098.html


Of course, they have to be brought to market, but this is how they are thinking - if the Volt can pip them to the post, so to speak, then the US will be in a very strong position:D

I'm hoping that the Volt is a success, and it's something that the whole country can get behind.

http://www.hybridcars.com/news/hyundai-goes-super-green-frankfurt-auto-show-26076.html

OK, a lot of these may be concepts, but if hyundai can bring these to the marketplace at an affordable price, then they will be big sellers.:cool:

Blue Will ?

http://www.hybridcars.com/files/hyundai-blue-will-610.jpg
The HND-4 'Blue-Will' plug-in hybrid, like the Volt, promises 40 miles of all-electric range—although it will use a parallel hybrid architecture rather than the Volt’s series plug-in hybrid design. The Blue Will, unveiled last spring in Seoul, combines a 1.6-liter four-cylinder gas engine with direct-injection technology to charge a set of lithium-polymer batteries, which in turn provides power to an electric motor to drive the front wheels. The total output of the system is 154 horsepower. The Blue Will also serves as a showcase for other fun peripheral technologies, including lightweight carbon fiber, the use of a solar roof to power the car’s ventilation system—like the one found in the 2010 Toyota Prius—and interior materials made from bio-degradable plant extracts, and the headlamp bezels made from recycled soft drink bottles.


I like the lightweight carbon fiber idea, Chevy should be looking to cut the Volt's weight in future generations.

The Chevy Volt prototype was unveiled in January 2007. This Hyandai prototype is September 2009 - does that mean the production car will come out two years and eight months after the Volt production car ?

Here's a thought: if someone like Yugo rushes a really badly made range extended electric vehicle to market by Oct 2010, and it catches fire and kills some family the first week, could it be the Hindenburg kiss-of-death for this kind of car ?
Not all "competition" is good.

Fair point, Geronimo - I'm also liking the idea of the Blue Will - it sounds good on paper, so fingers crossed:D

Carbon Fiber is nice, but according to this recent article on autobloggreen...

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/03/greenlings-what-are-the-promises-and-pitfalls-of-carbon-fiber/

The least expensive carbon fiber car for sale is the Tesla Roadster at $110,000. It's not for nothing that major auto makers don't use it. Hopefully the price keeps coming down.

Carbon Fiber is nice, but according to this recent article on autobloggreen...

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/09/03/greenlings-what-are-the-promises-and-pitfalls-of-carbon-fiber/

The least expensive carbon fiber car for sale is the Tesla Roadster at $110,000. It's not for nothing that major auto makers don't use it. Hopefully the price keeps coming down.

Thanks for the link.
Maybe the Boeing 787 Dreamliner will jump-start the carbon fiber industry, and give it enough revenue to figure out mass production - maybe not.

Still, the Volt seems pretty heavy, about 3500 pounds, with the new Prius at about 2900 pounds. Maybe they could use more aluminum in the chassis, or eventually get a lighter gas engine: it seems like they are using the 107 hp 1.4 liter 4 cylinder for just 71 hp ? Is that so it can run at a very efficient RPM, or is it just the smallest 4 cylinder they happened to have at GM ? I know they were considering a 3 cylinder turbo, but with all the tubing, etc. it was adding unnecessary complications to an already cutting-edge car.

There must be some weight they can cut. Maybe carbon-fiber door panels - they don't need all carbon-fiber to save weight :)

I agree that aluminum would be a cool way to go. I'm not sure about the economics other than the fact that only expensive luxury cars like Audi are using a lot of it. I do know that it weighs 1/3rd as much as steel.

I believe the 1.4L was the small 4 cylinder they had and developing a 3 cylinder turbo would require a lot more engineering and complication, for something that wouldn't be used that often.

I agree that aluminum would be a cool way to go. I'm not sure about the economics other than the fact that only expensive luxury cars like Audi are using a lot of it. I do know that it weighs 1/3rd as much as steel.

I believe the 1.4L was the small 4 cylinder they had and developing a 3 cylinder turbo would require a lot more engineering and complication, for something that wouldn't be used that often.

Looking into it a bit, it looks like aluminum is a much better next step than carbon-fiber (this paper seems to be written about 2003):
http://www.secat.net/docs/resources/Aluminum_vs_Steel_in_Passenger_Cars07.pdf


Despite significant technological advantages in aluminum alloys, the use of aluminum alloys to replace traditional materials such as steels has been slow due to lack of comprehensive economic analysis of the entire life-cycle of automotive products.

Knowing that the greatest opportunity for weight savings comes from the body structure and exterior closure panels, and that additional weight reduction can be achieved by downsizing the other components such as engine components, the proposed model considers achieving weight reduction by replacing the conventional material used in vehicle’s construction (i.e., steel) with a lighter mass equivalent material (i.e., aluminum), maintaining the same vehicle design and using the same manufacturing processes for body components.

For the pre-manufacturing stage, the cost calculations for both materials are based on the assumption that 308 kg of aluminum sheet would be required to produce the completed 193 kg aluminum body structure and 565 kg steel sheet are needed to produce 371 kg steel body structure. According to Stodolsky, the primary material used in the typical passenger car today is steel, which can be purchased for a cost between $0.77 and $1.20/kg... Since aluminum is a material which is likely to replace steel in automotive body components, the starting value for aluminum sheet has been chosen as $3.3/kg.

The steel car here would weigh 3,120 pounds, the aluminum one 2,540 pounds. The aluminum used in the manufacturing, in this example, would cost only 80% more than if they used steel, since only 308 kg is needed vs. 565 kg steel (more expensive per pound, but much less needed). And that 80% more is only about $450.

Of course, prices of steel vs. aluminum might be different in 2010. Still, it looks like the way to go: get the cost of the battery down $450, then make the Volt out of aluminum. Performance specs would go up considerably.

Interesting article. My dad works in the steel industry, has for over 20 years. He works with both steel and aluminum a lot, so I can ask him about this, but aluminum is just like any other commodity, the supply will rise to meet demand, and on the flip side of the coin, it falls to come down to the level of demand. Aluminum is one of the most abundant elements on earth's crust, so it's not a production bottleneck, it's literally everywhere. The aluminum refiners can pretty much make as much as they want. I find it very believable that aluminum would only add about $500 to the price of the raw materials on per kg basis.

I'm just not sure about the manufacturing standpoint of being able to compare steel $/kg to aluminum $/kg. It may be much easier and cheaper to make cars out steel for reasons other than just the price of the raw materials. Just conjecture. I know there are some pretty old farty auto maker execs that need a sledgehammer to their head before they realize there's an issue that they need to resolve, but I just can't imagine it being rocket science to realize what the article you posted states.

This very detailed article (http://www.secat.net/docs/resources/Aluminum_vs_Steel_in_Passenger_Cars07.pdf) did a comparison of aluminum vs steel in car production from which I derived about cost increase of $2-3/kg of reduced mass. Considering you can buy a new car for about $9/kg, this is a pretty large number number.

still waiting, lol

Don't forget hydraulic hybrids. See this site, competition, ERS Drive