Dealers are price gouging for Priuses.

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/08/26/report-some-consumers-see-price-gouging-on-2010-prius/

Solar is a bigger hit than Toyota expected.

I had hoped to get a solar sunroof on a Prius, someday. Looks like I'll have to wait until they bring supply in line with demand.

GM should take another look at putting a solar sunroof on the Volt. Even as an extra cost option, it could enhance customer perception of the value of the Volt. At $40K, GM really must build a car, with options, that people want.

SOTS (Solar on the Surface) rules! Any member that argued passionately against this technology please step forward for your punishment. ;)

Don't worry, it will be less embarrassing than what that Malaysian woman who was sentenced to 6 lashes and a week in jail for drinking beer in a bar is going to feel. Man, just when I thought Malaysia was becoming more moderate. That's a shame. I bet that bad PR just cost them billions in tourism and foreign investment. Somebody is going to be lashed! lol

From the Prius article:

"That said, it's not terribly surprising to hear reports that a number of Toyota dealerships are adding so-called Market Value Adjustments of up to $5,000 (possibly more) on some Prius models, especially those equipped with the hard-to-find solar sunroof option."


Arguing with forum members about SOTS: Untold hours
The amount of capital lost by Malaysia for lashing young women: Billions of dollars
SOTS selling well in a recession: priceless.

Yet a paper "Why Solar Panels Don't Make Sense On Top Of Your EV" recently written by EV pioneer Ron Freund (for eaaev.org) ridiculed
on-car solar and called it a waste as it could not be angled to target the most effective azimuth of the sun's rays effectively enough to keep it sufficiently saturated, for long enough periods. Plus they said may disrupt aerodynamics and was too easily damaged by road debris (dust, rocks, road salt) and weather (hail)

Mr. Freund suggests if you wish to implement solar into your EV or PHEV regime then it should be made part of your base-station charging solution and/or fed back into the grid to offset the energy and monetary costs of your plug-in charge cycle.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with these comments but it should be interesting what types of improvements in SOC are going to be realized by those equipped with this feature on the new Prius
WopOnTour

Yet a paper "Why Solar Panels Don't Make Sense On Top Of Your EV" recently written by EV pioneer Ron Freund (for eaaev.org) ridiculed
on-car solar and called it a waste as it could not be angled to target the most effective azimuth of the sun's rays effectively enough to keep it sufficiently saturated, for long enough periods.







The demand for the solar Prius option is proof positive that even smart critics don't understand that cost has very little to do with automobile purchasing decisions. It's so obvious or everyone would be driving used and tiny eco boxes. Thousand dollar stereo entertainment systems, two tone paint, alloy wheels, massive V8 engines, etc. Is this not evidence enough? Hello Mr. Freund?

It's funny because every time the word solar comes up people pull out their calculators to "prove" fossil fuels are better or installing the energy source on a stationary location is more efficient that putting it on a mobile platform. However, they are missing the point that a mobile energy source is far more valuable, in many applications, than a stationary one. That is why petroleum is so valuable. It is easy to transport when compared to wood, coal, etc. It rules transportation with around 95% of the massive global market.

Most people are going to have to see the finished system and experience SOTS in it's fully refined glory (probably a few generations down the road - have to start somewhere). This is similar to how people are going to have to experience the Volt to understand how it can effect the petroleum market. Better Palace as well. Many new concepts throw people into a tailspin of confusion until the details are made clear. Wait until cloning technology hits big.

good post!
I for one hope solar technology makes it to the 2nd gen Volt platform, even if it just meant I could keep my iPod playing though my car stereo all-day at the beach! (without sucking on the primary source)

I wonder if there might be some sort of upcoming new solar technology that might allow these panels to be more efficient at various angles to the sun. I dunno, maybe some sort of prismatic clear coat, or MEMS nano-machines in the cell structure that can physically move using coriolis force to maximize saturation. Maybe something else?

I hope you know I wasn't trying to antagonize ya Tex just participating in the thread. :D
WopOnTour

It's certainly the case that some aspect of automobile purchasing, like anything else, is driven by the "cool" factor.

But only up to a point. "Cool" can only support a certain price point. Now, the solar sunroof is pretty nifty but it's the only way to get a sunroof on a Prius, so some of this is demand just for a sunrrof and the SPV is a bonus.

WOT's point is well taken. If you consider that a regular sunroof is something like $1K, then the Prius SPV upcharge is something like $2.6K and it delivers something like 60 watts, peak. You can buy a lot of SPV for your home with $2.6K and, if I just wanted to make a difference in CO2 emissions, I think I'd just buy the panels for the home and skip the Prius solar sunroof option.

Right now, SOTS really isn't very cost-effective and the money I spend on SPV for the home encourages SPV and the development of the basic tech that will someday make SOTS more efficient and cost-effective.

On the other hand, I really like having a sunroof on my cars.

Goes to show something doesn't have to make economic sense. If people want it they'll pay more to get it. Even if the usefulness of said product is questionable.

What kind of panel does the Prius use? It could get over the non optimal angle by using a thin film type panel; since they tend to be much better at making use of non-optimal sun angles even though their efficiency is generally much lower.

Oh, I'm going to add that beach example to my list of SOTS advantages. The only difference is that I'm going to use it as part an extended camping trip where the volt can supply numerous convenience devices like lighting, cooking, music, etc. All you have to do is know the energy balance and the amount of energy stored in the battery pack at the end of the camping trip can be the same as when you arrived or even fully recharged!

I like this example because people can picture a relaxed atmosphere with beautiful people running around enjoying the sun. The Volt rests silently in the background producing just enough sustainable and clean energy to reduce the negative characteristics of outdoor living. You could even move the car around using only the power of the sun for short distances to move to another location along the beach or go grab some groceries. Hummm, a YouTube concept commercial just might do the trick...

WOT's point is well taken. If you consider that a regular sunroof is something like $1K, then the Prius SPV upcharge is something like $2.6K and it delivers something like 60 watts, peak. You can buy a lot of SPV for your home with $2.6K and, if I just wanted to make a difference in CO2 emissions, I think I'd just buy the panels for the home and skip the Prius solar sunroof option.

Or bite the bullet and do the BOTH!
I shouldnt talk really, my home is far from green. Everybody's motivation is different....
WOT

I would maybe pay $100 for that option, mostly to keep the battery topped off in emergency long term parking (months).. but really if you have a large battery pack it wont kill you just to run a small fan off that while you are parked.. just automate some safety limits.

How powerful is the Prius fan?.. a 50watt motor in one of my electric airplanes will blow all the loose paper in a room around, like a mini hurricane... and that cheap motor is not that efficient.

Keep the think film PV on the roof of your home.

Oh, I'm going to add that beach example to my list of SOTS advantages. The only difference is that I'm going to use it as part an extended camping trip where the volt can supply numerous convenience devices like lighting, cooking, music, etc. All you have to do is know the energy balance and the amount of energy stored in the battery pack at the end of the camping trip can be the same as when you arrived or even fully recharged!
.................................
You could even move the car around using only the power of the sun for short distances to move to another location along the beach or go grab some groceries..

Texas my friend, you are nuts... I can see music if you keep the volume down, a small fan, efficient lighting but cooking and moving the car around?.. impossible unless you setup several external panels to recharge the batteries. We do this during extended astronomy camping trips to keep the 12v batteries charged.. and it is a struggle.

Solar power is best for non-moving applications.

Texas my friend, you are nuts... I can see music if you keep the volume down, a small fan, efficient lighting but cooking and moving the car around?.. impossible unless you setup several external panels to recharge the batteries. We do this during extended astronomy camping trips to keep the 12v batteries charged.. and it is a struggle.

Solar power is best for non-moving applications.




You obviously have not looked though the hundreds of posts we had debating SOTS. If you use the search function you can also see examples of existing solar cars like the solar Prius (not the new one - just type that into Google).

Many of us have come up with around 5 miles of AER energy could be gained on a good sunny day in Texas, depending on the solar technology used.

Now, if you live in some sun forsaken location and need to take vitamin D supplements to keep your skin healthy then you might have to consider different energy options. ;)

I think people would be surprised at what is possible when solar technology allows the entire surface of the car to be covered, perhaps using paint-on nano cells. There is a lot of surface area there. Again, it's not only about the cost but the value you place on the extra functionality. I would be surprised if car bodies and building do not have active solar surfaces in the not-to-distant future.

http://www.toyoland.com/photos/plugin/solar-prius.jpghttp://www.odditycentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/solar_boat.jpg