Dick Weir/EESCAM

"We're 85% completed on our first production line. Which is a modular concept. And so when this is done, it is full production." June 2009 Link (http://www.gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3159)

"As we stated in the beginning of 2008, properly funded EEStor, Inc. would anticipate in being in production status late in 2008.
The funding that we did receive was not sufficient to meet the production status late in 2008 but as identified by our last news release, EEStor, Inc. has made excellent progress with that level of funding." October 27th, 2008 Link (http://gm-volt.com/2008/10/27/update-from-eestor-ceo-richard-weir-no-eesu-delivery-in-2008/)

"There's nothing complex in this,"..."It's nowhere near the complexity of disk-drive fabrication." August 05, 2008 Link (http://beta.technologyreview.com/energy/21171/page2/)

"Prototypes have been built and prototypes have been tested." Wednesday, July 30, 2008 Link (http://bariumtitanate.blogspot.com/2008/07/richard-weir-says-permittivity-is.html)

"It certainly allows us to meet present specifications and major advances in energy storage in the future," he said. "It'll meet the voltage, we say that, it'll meet the polarization, saturation, we say that."
"It's all certified," said Weir. "No bull**** in this." "Good things should happen in a reasonable period of time." July 30, 2008 Link (http://cleantech.com/news/3174/eestors-weir-speaks-about-ultracapacitor-milestone)

"The first commercial application of the EESU is intended to be used in electric vehicles under a technology agreement with ZENN Motors Company. EEStor, Inc. remains on track to begin shipping production 15 kilowatt-hour Electrical Energy Storage Units (EESU) to ZENN Motor Company in 2007 for use in their electric vehicles."
"We are very proud of the key advancements we have made over the past year"..."We have built a state-of-the-art facility and have exceptional personnel on board." 01/17/07 Link (http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Eestor-Inc-631210.html)

"EEStor recently informed FGC that it continues on schedule in the commercialization of the ESU. FGC is up to date and current with its commitments to EEStor Inc. with the next milestone consisting of independent 3rd party verification of EEStor’s technology, expected during the summer of 2006." 14 April 2006 Link (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/04/feel_good_cars_.html#more)

"We have another major announcement for May. But seeing is believing!” March 29th, 2006 Link (http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2006/03/29/eestor-has-open-house-shows-off-ev-prototypes/)

"A number of major companies have said they would issue a purchase order quickly if specs are met.
The company is currently seeking equity investment of $3.5 million. A business plan is available." Wed, 05 May 2004 Link (http://www.ufto.com/clients-only/uftonotes04.html)

Ian Clifford/Zenn/Feel Good Car

“[ZENN president Ian Clifford] He is confident that EEStor will pull the wraps of their mysterious "battery" very soon; his exact word was "imminent" and that I could, in fact, hold my breath for their announcement. "(Bill Moore, EV World, November 29, 2006) Link (http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1145)

EESTOR "to deliver production units, the end of calendar 07, they appear to be on track with that" from Ian Clifford's mouth. YOUTUBE video September 2007 Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1rpkLLRK8c)

"Do you guys have any working prototype vehicles?"
"No. Our expectation from EEStor and that’s always been our expectation is that they will deliver a commercial product to us. They will deliver and what they’ve told us is by the end of this calendar year was delivery of an early production commercial unit."
"We’ve stated that if EEStor stays on schedule to deliver early commercial units to us by the end of 2008 that we will have a fully certified highway vehicle powered by EEStor at the end of 09." June 1st, 2008 Link (http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/01/exclusive-ceo-of-zenn-motor-company-on-eestor-eestor-storage-units-cityzenn-and-zennergy-drive-systems/)

I checked in with Mr. Clifford regarding this new report on the timing of the public release of EEStor’s testing. Whereas he couldn’t be specific, he confirmed the release is indeed "imminent." June 27th, 2008 Link (http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/27/eestor-about-to-release-public-data-on-its-energy-storage-units-eesus/)

“I don’t use words like ‘imminent’ anymore,” says Clifford. January 2009 Link (http://www.torontolife.com/features/zenn-and-art-electric-car/?pageno=2)

"The following milestone is delivery of a production prototype unit for a car and that's late next year."-"Now, in Austin, Texas, they have a state-of-the-art production facility that's ready to deliver production units in 2009." Friday, May. 15, 2009 Link (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/auto/charged-up-over-cutting-edge-battery/article1138856/)

“the timeline for the delivery of an EESU is entirely within the purview of EEStor and as such I cannot comment on delivery timelines. I will restate that ZENN remain confident in the launch of an EEStor EESU (electrical energy storage unit) powered cityZENN by the last quarter of 2009.” December 21st, 2008 Link (http://gm-volt.com/2008/12/21/eestor-is-granted-a-new-patent-on-the-eesu-offering-extensive-detail-on-its-design-and-function/)

“I firmly believe that 2009 will be the year that the automotive industry changes forever — and not just because of the current economic turmoil we are all familiar with, but led by the commercialization of disruptive zero-emission automotive solutions by ZMC.” December 24th, 2008 Link (http://www.cleanbreak.ca/2008/12/24/eestor-fails-to-deliver-on-zenn-hopes-but-lands-new-patent/)

"we've seen this product with our own eyes." April 16, 2008 Link (http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0416/p13s01-sten.html?page=2)

"Zenn's Clifford, who said he's asked daily about the current status of EEStor, said his company is in regular contact with the energy storage developer and makes frequent visits down to EEStor's production facility in Cedar Park, an Austin suburb." "To be very clear, this is not a lab that they are building. It is a full, state of the art production facility that is nearing completion, and we remain very pleased with their progress." March 31, 2008 Link (http://cleantech.com/news/2644/zenn-gearing-up-for-eestor-powered-car?page=1)

"EEStor's game-changing energy storage technology is in the advanced stages of commercialization", stated Ian Clifford, Chief Executive Officer. "EEStor has publicly committed to commercialization in 2008 and their first production line will be used to supply ZENN Motor Company." Mar 28, 2008 Link (http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Zenn-Motor-Company-TSX-VENTURE-ZNN-837653.html)

Clifford said FGC is partnering with international manufacturers to build the ZENN, with the capacity to ramp up to an annual production of 10,000 ZENNs within a six-month period. “Unlike other LSV manufacturers that produce their vehicles as a mere sideline to their more traditional automotive businesses, we’re dedicating our careers to the advancement of neighborhood electric vehicles,” Clifford said. Dec. 11, 2002 Link (http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/zenn.html)

"I got a call from Dick Weir late in 2002 and he was at the point where he and his partner Carl Nelson were getting ready to commercialize the technology that they had developed 10 years previously." June 1st, 2008 Link (http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/01/exclusive-ceo-of-zenn-motor-company-on-eestor-eestor-storage-units-cityzenn-and-zennergy-drive-systems/)

Tom Weir/EESCAM

"Our objective is to complete component testing by September 2009. In parallel, we will be finalizing our second objective which consists of the assembly processes necessary to deliver production quality components and/or EESU's by the end of 2009. " May 29, 2009 Link (http://bariumtitanate.blogspot.com/2009/05/eestors-tom-weir-discusses-short-term.html)

Anto, I like your idea for this thread. Perhaps if you get more quotes you can just edit your top post. Maybe just put the date you made the update on line one and keep your list current and correct (only you can make the changes).

I believe that this EEstor / EEscam story will become a popular case study for future MBA programs. No doubt about it, whether they succeed or fail. It has all the ingredients and intrigue to become a great learning example for future leaders.

Anto, I like your idea for this thread. Perhaps if you get more quotes you can just edit your top post. Maybe just put the date you made the update on line one and keep your list current and correct (only you can make the changes).

Certainly! :D

The last Ian Clifford quote I added was from Dr. Lyle's interview of Ian from a year ago, June 1, 2008 (http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/01/exclusive-ceo-of-zenn-motor-company-on-eestor-eestor-storage-units-cityzenn-and-zennergy-drive-systems/). If you are reading this and interested in this EESCAM saga, I recommend rereading the entire interview. You can see how ridiculous some of Ian's answers are.

If you believe what comes out of Ian's mouth, ("I got a call from Dick Weir late in 2002 and he was at the point where he and his partner Carl Nelson were getting ready to commercialize the technology that they had developed 10 years previously.") than this EESCAM story must be at least 18 years old. Cold fusion has beat EESCAM by 2 years.

Today's quote, “I don’t use words like ‘imminent’ anymore,” says Clifford," is from an article in the Toronto Life titled "Zenn and the Art of the Electric Car" (http://www.torontolife.com/features/zenn-and-art-electric-car/?pageno=2).

I cannot believe how a majority of reporters, journalists, and bloggers who write about the EESCAM/Zenn story are bunch of idiots. Instead of asking Ian Clifford to show them one working prototype of this ceramic battery which Dick Weir claims has been tested, built, and certified, they for some reason kiss Ian's behind. An example is the following comment the reporter made in the Toronto life article:

"He can afford to be sanguine. His initial objective was simply to goad the big car companies into making electric cars, and whether ZENN succeeds or not, that goal will have been achieved. Although he’s an entrepreneur, Clifford’s primary motivation isn’t money. And this may turn out to be his biggest asset; it’s why he and his partners were willing to launch an electric vehicle company when everybody else was pulling out. Finally, eight years later, he’s about to find out whether slow and steady can still win the race."

WTF is this person talking about??? IC goaded the big car companies into making electric cars??? This reporter must have banged his head on something or maybe he is the blogger with the bag over his head. Why doesn't he just nominate Ian Clifford for the Nobel Peace Prize in solving all the world problems?

Evidently Ian Clifford started using the word "imminent" in 2006.
I hope Mr. Bill Moore did not hold his breath to long :).

This Ian Clifford makes no sense. The 2 IC quotes I added today came from "The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/auto/charged-up-over-cutting-edge-battery/article1138856/)" Friday, May. 15, 2009:
"The following milestone is delivery of a production prototype unit for a car and that's late next year."-"Now, in Austin, Texas, they have a state-of-the-art production facility that's ready to deliver production units in 2009." Isn't normal procedure to deliver production prototype units first, then deliver production units? I could see why EESTor/Zenn are screwed up...they do things backwards :).

This Ian Clifford makes no sense. The 2 IC quotes I added today came from "The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/auto/charged-up-over-cutting-edge-battery/article1138856/)" Friday, May. 15, 2009:
"The following milestone is delivery of a production prototype unit for a car and that's late next year."-"Now, in Austin, Texas, they have a state-of-the-art production facility that's ready to deliver production units in 2009." Isn't normal procedure to deliver production prototype units first, then deliver production units? I could see why EESTor/Zenn are screwed up...they do things backwards :).




Is that really what he said? lol. Do you have the reference for that? Maybe he hopes he can then say that he said the date was planned for the end of 2010, right after the Volt hits the showroom floors. lol

Regardless, we will be hearing a grand excuse coming soon because there are only 6 months until the end of the year. Maybe we should start a betting pool to see what week the excuse will be announced. I'm betting the first week of October (just took a wild guess).

Is that really what he said? lol. Do you have the reference for that? Maybe he hopes he can then say that he said the date was planned for the end of 2010, right after the Volt hits the showroom floors. lol

Regardless, we will be hearing a grand excuse coming soon because there are only 6 months until the end of the year. Maybe we should start a betting pool to see what week the excuse will be announced. I'm betting the first week of October (just took a wild guess).

Link (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/auto/charged-up-over-cutting-edge-battery/article1138856/)

The following is the Q and A:

"Can you show me one of these or show an investor one of these even if it doesn't power a car but maybe an electric can opener?
No. Because of the way our agreement is structured with EEStor, it's all milestone-based and the next milestone is a chemical milestone with third-party verification of the science.
The following milestone is delivery of a production prototype unit for a car and that's late next year."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You found them in 2002 and you still can't show me an example of what they do. Are they years late?
They're not years late.
Everyone keeps saying that. But they developed the technology about 12 years ago — that's when they did the patent work and the lab work. But they didn't have a facility until 2006.
Now, in Austin, Texas, they have a state-of-the-art production facility that's ready to deliver production units in 2009.
They've gone from a standing start to production in a three-year period. It's pretty extraordinary."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did I miss a press release? "standing start to production in a three-year period"...what "production" is Ian talking about. Didn't he read Baghead Brendan's interview with Tom Weir stating EESTOR is currently performing "component testing"? EESCAM has not produced anything as of today. Nothing extraordinary, just the usual hype and wait till end of year BS.

BTW-There are links to all the quotes on the first post on this thread. Click on the "Link" after quote.

The quote I added today by Dick Weir makes no sense (bizarre). How could a company that has a product (EESU) which is going to revolutionize the transportation industry and break our dependence on foreign oil not have sufficient funding???
What also does not make sense is why didn't Mort Topfer the billionaire who sat on the BOD of EESTOR sufficiently fund EESTOR himself??? What's 10 million dollars to a billionaire??? If you believe all the crap about EESTOR, it would have become a multi billion dollar company. Could it be Mort Topfer realized what "they" were claiming is not what "they" claimed to have, and that is the real reason why he left EESTOR 3 months ago???
This whole EESTORY stinks. Does anyone want to purchase the Brooklyn Bridge :).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"As we stated in the beginning of 2008, properly funded EEStor, Inc. would anticipate in being in production status late in 2008.
The funding that we did receive was not sufficient to meet the production status late in 2008 but as identified by our last news release, EEStor, Inc. has made excellent progress with that level of funding." October 27th, 2008 Link (http://gm-volt.com/2008/10/27/update-from-eestor-ceo-richard-weir-no-eesu-delivery-in-2008/)

When you connect the dots on the following statements, it doesn't add up.
Jan 17, 2007 16:19 ET in a Marketwire (http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Eestor-Inc-631210.html) EESTor press release, Dick Weir talks about the first EESTor Inc automated production line: "We have built a state-of-the-art facility..."
March 31, 2008 Ian Clifford states: "To be very clear, this is not a lab that they are building. It is a full, state of the art production facility that is nearing completion, and we remain very pleased with their progress."
In the June 2009 Dick Weir interview states: "We're 85% completed on our first production line".
How does a production line go from "We have built a state-of-the-art facility" to "We're 85 % complete..."?

When you connect the dots on the following statements, it doesn't add up.
Jan 17, 2007 16:19 ET in a Marketwire (http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Eestor-Inc-631210.html) EESTor press release, Dick Weir talks about the first EESTor Inc automated production line: "We have built a state-of-the-art facility..."
March 31, 2008 Ian Clifford states: "To be very clear, this is not a lab that they are building. It is a full, state of the art production facility that is nearing completion, and we remain very pleased with their progress."
In the June 2009 Dick Weir interview states: "We're 85% completed on our first production line".
How does a production line go from "We have built a state-of-the-art facility" to "We're 85 % complete..."?







After listening to him and getting a better idea about his personality I can actually defend this. He sounds like a kind of guy that likes to get ahead of himself. Like, "Yeah! We got this awesome process that is going to change the world. It's almost done, we just need some cash."

Also, he is thinking like a typical engineer that is worried about what he feels is the hardest technical challenge of the project. To him, all the other "stuff" is just easy and proven clutter. To him it's all about the material. He says he has the production line to a point where he can get high quality powders at the touch of a button. Since he has a different company building the electronic components he feels he is basically done. Just throw in a few robots here and there.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Even all the supporting processes take time to design, set up and ramp to get acceptable yields. The devil is in the details.

Now that he has these materials and the electronic components he should be able to slap together some prototypes (yes, I said prototypes) very soon. He could shut up the world with anything that worked.

Since he is no dummy and knows that simple fact, I have to question where he actually is. Think about that. Just take the magic material and go to ACE Hardware and throw together something to package it up in, add a wire-wrapped prototype of the circuit board and you would have a working prototype. If it worked anywhere near what they are claiming it would put the world's scientists in a panic. Every lithium-ion battery company would be put on immediate hold. Billions of dollars of capital would be shifted to work off of an EEstor license.

So, I'm just going to hold my tongue for a few months. If they can't get anything out of the lab to show publicly by the end of the year (and verified by a third party) then they are fair game for more vicious criticism.

There is another possibility, and it has to do with the releasability of the technology in the first place. The following is pure speculation on my part.

EEStor is linked to Lockheed Martin, a prime defense contractor. If this technology works as claims it will have direct military application -- specifically to solid-state directed energy weapons. Thus, it will likely be subject to ITAR (i.e., export controlled as dual use technology).

Thus, it will likely be subject to ITAR (i.e., export controlled as dual use technology).

That would truly be ironic. The DoD or whoever deciding to stifle the prolification of a technology that would give the US energy independence and close up a gushing artery of our dying economy. Although, I, being a lowly laman, really don't have a clue how an energy storage device of this import could change warfare for countries like North Korea etc. Still, it would get out and be reverse engineered eventually even if it were restricted to military use only.

That would truly be ironic. The DoD or whoever deciding to stifle the prolification of a technology that would give the US energy independence and close up a gushing artery of our dying economy. Although, I, being a lowly laman, really don't have a clue how an energy storage device of this import could change warfare for countries like North Korea etc. Still, it would get out and be reverse engineered eventually even if it were restricted to military use only.

http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf

Click on the link above, and see page 486, Category XVIII, Paragraph (7). So, you still think EEStor is BS?

http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf

Click on the link above, and see page 481, Category XVIII, Paragraph (7). So, you still think EEStor is BS?

What does page 481 has to do with EESCAM? Since 1992 Dick Weir/EESCAM has been unable to manufacture what they claim they have. It works great on paper, so does Moe, Larry, & Curly Ultracapacitors which claims to have energy density 10X EESCAM. MLC Ultracapacitors is a secretive company, they are protecting their technology from Martians.

What does page 481 has to do with EESCAM? Since 1992 Dick Weir/EESCAM has been unable to manufacture what they claim they have. It works great on paper, so does Moe, Larry, & Curly Ultracapacitors which claims to have energy density 10X EESCAM. MLC Ultracapacitors is a secretive company, they are protecting their technology from Martians.

The link to Lockheed Martin peaked my interest. Were it not for that link I would be dismissive also.

(More Speculation)

You see, suppose this 200 lbs device is real and can discharge at 60C. A 53 KWh "Energy Storage" device discharged at 60C would provide 3.18 Mega Watts for 60 seconds. No commercial application requires that kind of capability, that is well into military territory and ITAR part 121.1, Category XVIII, Paragraph (7) on page 486 would apply. (speculating again on it's original intent)

To make it viable for the "commercial" market, it would have to be redesigned and de-rated so it could only discharge at a much-lower C rate. Perhaps that is why Zenn is unable to get their hands on one at the moment, yet they are comfortable giving them money to "finalize the design"? It is all rather odd.

Then again, perhaps you are correct and they are pulling a Matloff – I really don’t know what to make of them. I would not be surprised either way. I’m just not as quick to dismiss them as you.

I’m just not as quick to dismiss them as you.Your speculation is wrong.
I have been following this story since 2004 when the UFTO article appeared on the Internet. At first I was a believer. End of 2007 I became a skeptic and a realist. There is no EESU by EESCAM meeting any of it's patent claims...there will be no EESU powering a highway motor vehicle.


What is OUTRAGEOUS (http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/01/exclusive-ceo-of-zenn-motor-company-on-eestor-eestor-storage-units-cityzenn-and-zennergy-drive-systems/) in this EESCAM story Ian Clifford of Zenn stated he does not want prototypes of the EESU from EESCAM. IC expects to receive the first production line unit, drop it in a CityZenn (which as of today does not exist) drive around and everything will be Kosher. What an IDIOT for a CEO of a company.
WOULD GM ACCEPT DELIVERY OF LG BATTERIES FOR THE VOLT WITHOUT ANY PROTOTYPE TESTING? I think you know the answer.

After listening to him and getting a better idea about his personality I can actually defend this. He sounds like a kind of guy that likes to get ahead of himself. Like, "Yeah! We got this awesome process that is going to change the world. It's almost done, we just need some cash."

That has been Dick Weir's BS since 2004:
"A number of major companies have said they would issue a purchase order quickly if specs are met.
The company is currently seeking equity investment of $3.5 million. A business plan is available." Wed, 05 May 2004 Link (http://www.ufto.com/clients-only/uftonotes04.html)

I don't see how Dick Weir's June 2009 audio interview is anything positive. I see it more troubling than anything else.
How is it in 2004 Dick Weir was ready to accept PO's from major comapanies...5 years later the production line is only 85% complete? What happened...the production line was stuck at 85% complete? It just doesn't make sense.

You said you want to give Dick Weir a chance, but I can say from past experience we will be here end of 2009 and there will be no EESU verified by an independent 3rd party meeting EESCAM's patent specs. In the meantime, there will be the usual hype/press release from EESCAM stating a component or two will be certified.

Your speculation is wrong.
I have been following this story since 2004 when the UFTO article appeared on the Internet. At first I was a believer. End of 2007 I became a skeptic and a realist. There is no EESU by EESCAM meeting any of it's patent claims...there will be no EESU powering a highway motor vehicle.


What is OUTRAGEOUS (http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/01/exclusive-ceo-of-zenn-motor-company-on-eestor-eestor-storage-units-cityzenn-and-zennergy-drive-systems/) in this EESCAM story Ian Clifford of Zenn stated he does not want prototypes of the EESU from EESCAM. IC expects to receive the first production line unit, drop it in a CityZenn (which as of today does not exist) drive around and everything will be Kosher. What an IDIOT for a CEO of a company.
WOULD GM ACCEPT DELIVERY OF LG BATTERIES FOR THE VOLT WITHOUT ANY PROTOTYPE TESTING? I think you know the answer.

Well...I'm still not ready to outright dismiss them because of the Lockheed connection. Then again, I'm not about to invest any of my money with them either.

Bottom-line for me, if this technology is real, then that means the development was likely funded by DoD. Consequently they wouldn't be allowed to export the DoD funded technology, nor would they be allowed to sell it on the commercial market--it will be highly protected as dual use technology under ITAR -- especially if it can handle high C rates like a supercapitor.

It's been a year since Dick Weir made the following comment to Lyle.

October 27th, 2008 (http://gm-volt.com/2008/10/27/update-from-eestor-ceo-richard-weir-no-eesu-delivery-in-2008/):

"As we have provided certified information on EEStor, Inc. this information certain indicates the excellent progress that we are making.

As we stated in the beginning of 2008, properly funded EEStor, Inc. would anticipate in being in production status late in 2008.

The funding that we did receive was not sufficient to meet the production status late in 2008 but as identified by our last news release, EEStor, Inc. has made excellent progress with that level of funding.

EEStor, Inc. has secured a contract with Light Electric Vehicles, Inc. and this has allowed EEStor, Inc. to expedite or progress toward a production status."

I figured now it should be reasonable time Lyle contacts Dick Weir and asks him how much longer we have to wait for the great reveal verified by a 3rd party if he hasn't already done so. We all know Ian Clifford stated to Lyle EEStor's reveal is imminent for end of year but Ian Clifford has been stating that BS since 2006. Let's see what Dick has to say...I don't expect much.

Here is a link to an article from the Montreal Gazette on the ZENN being discontinued: http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/ZENN+abandons+electric+plant/2315038/story.html
They will evidently continue to work on components of electric drive trains. Bet they don't get any money back from EEstor.

Sums up where we are at this point in the EESTOR/Zenn story.
Posted by Penny Gruber on theestory.com.
Link (http://theeestory.com/posts/92676/topic)
Zenn=Zenn salesman, Prospect=Zenn potential customer

"The cold calls would be relatively short:
Zenn:"We will soon have this great drive system that you should want to buy. It is powered by EESUs."

Prospect:"What is special about your drive? What are the specifications?"

Zenn:"It's smaller than a house and bigger than a breadbox."

Prospect:"Can you be more specific?"

Zenn:"It uses a battery, well a capacitor that never wears out, charges in three minutes and goes 250 miles on a single charge."

Prospect:"Those are extraordinary claims. Where has this been tested?"

Zenn:"We haven't exactly tested it. Dick Weir tells us that we should be getting the EESUs real soon now."

Prospect:"No one has ever tested this device that you make such amazing claims for?"

Zenn:"We did permittivity tests. The permittivity is really high. And it's stable against temperature."

Prospect:"That's nice. Has the battery or capacitor or whatever you want to call it ever been tested to do the incredible things you claim?"

Zenn:"We have powder purity results. Our, er EEStor's powders are really, really pure. EEStor told us that is important."

Prospect:"You've never seen one of these batteries, have you?"

Zenn:"Dick Weir assures me that EEStor has been making great progress. He's been assembling since June, so you could say he is ahead of schedule."

Prospect:"I am sorry, but do you have anything tangible to show me?"

Zenn:"Well we have the electric drivetrain itself. We were going to put it in our CityZenn cars."

Prospect:"What is special about your drivetrain?"

Zenn:"It is powered by an EESU!"

Prospect:"Which has incredible specifications?"

Zenn:"YES!"

Prospect:"That you have never tested?"

Zenn:"Yes, I mean no, the powder is really pure, and the permittivity is great across temperature, and Dick Weir says ..."

Prospect:"But you have never tested a battery?"

Zenn:"No, we are waiting for commercialization to do that. It's EEStor's secret plan to throw competitors off the scent."

Prospect:"It's a secret plan, but you are telling me this now?"

Zenn:"YES! EEStor has been careful to make sure no one believes them."

Prospect:"I can see how. And you have never tested one of these batteries?"

Zenn:"No, but Dick Weir says ..."

Prospect:"And has anyone else tested any of these batteries?"

Zenn:"Well some bloggers are absolutely convinced that SOMEONE has."

Prospect:"Perhaps EEStor has some test data they would care to share?"

Zenn:"No, they can't do that. You might leak it to one of their competitors, and then they would believe EEStor have what they say."

Prospect:"But you've just told me their plan. Are you telling others their plan?"

Zenn:"Uh, ... maybe."

Prospect:"Well if you're telling people their secret plans those plans are hardly a secret now are they?"

Zenn:"I suppose not."

Prospect:"If what's special about your drive is the battery, what do you provide?"

Zenn:"The ZENNERGY DRIVE!"

Prospect:"And why do I want this drive? What is different? What does it do that is valuable?"

Zenn:"It's powered by the EESU!"

Prospect:"Yes, yes, is there anything else that is special about the drive? Does it have any unique characteristics or specifications?"

Zenn:"We have a Flash animation on our web site."

Prospect:"Could you summarize, apart from the battery you don't yet have, what is special?"

Zenn:"We think the Flash animation is really cool. We have a background in internet art."

Prospect:"Yes, well apart from the animation, what specifications do you have for your drive? Is it cheaper? Is it safer? Does it have a wider operating envelope? Is it more efficient?"

Zenn:"It's a really cool animation. We'll design the drive to your needs."

Prospect:"We already have our own engineering for such projects."

Zenn:"Yes, well, we would want them to design it for us."

Prospect:"I beg your pardon?"

Zenn:"Your design team, we would want them to design the Zennergy drive for us. Then we would have someone else make it, and you would buy it from us."

Prospect:"And we would do this, why?"

Zenn:"Because the Zennergy Drive is the ONLY way to get an EESU for cars under 1400 pounds. We have the exclusive license for that! We will only sell you the battery if you buy it as part of the Zennergy Drive!"

Prospect:"Let me try to understand this. You want me to engineer your product that you don't have, so that I can buy it with a battery in it that you also don't make and don't have, that you say does incredible things, but which you have no objective evidence for?"

Zenn:"YES!"

Prospect:"Listen, I've got to be going. Uh, why don't you, uh well tell you what when you've got a battery to show, call my assistant."

Zenn:"You don't want to wait Dick Weir says we'll have a battery real soon. We're betting our company on it!"

Prospect:"I've really got to go.""
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you Penny Gruber for an awesome post!

Your post probably irritated Baghead and his believers :).

Sums up where we are at this point in the EESTOR/Zenn story.
Posted by Penny Gruber on theestory.com.
Link (http://theeestory.com/posts/92676/topic)
Zenn=Zenn salesman, Prospect=Zenn potential customer

"The cold calls would be relatively short:
Zenn:"We will soon have this great drive system that you should want to buy. It is powered by EESUs."

Prospect:"What is special about your drive? What are the specifications?"

Zenn:"It's smaller than a house and bigger than a breadbox."

Prospect:"Can you be more specific?"

Zenn:"It uses a battery, well a capacitor that never wears out, charges in three minutes and goes 250 miles on a single charge."

Prospect:"Those are extraordinary claims. Where has this been tested?"

Zenn:"We haven't exactly tested it. Dick Weir tells us that we should be getting the EESUs real soon now."

Prospect:"No one has ever tested this device that you make such amazing claims for?"

Zenn:"We did permittivity tests. The permittivity is really high. And it's stable against temperature."

Prospect:"That's nice. Has the battery or capacitor or whatever you want to call it ever been tested to do the incredible things you claim?"

Zenn:"We have powder purity results. Our, er EEStor's powders are really, really pure. EEStor told us that is important."

Prospect:"You've never seen one of these batteries, have you?"

Zenn:"Dick Weir assures me that EEStor has been making great progress. He's been assembling since June, so you could say he is ahead of schedule."

Prospect:"I am sorry, but do you have anything tangible to show me?"

Zenn:"Well we have the electric drivetrain itself. We were going to put it in our CityZenn cars."

Prospect:"What is special about your drivetrain?"

Zenn:"It is powered by an EESU!"

Prospect:"Which has incredible specifications?"

Zenn:"YES!"

Prospect:"That you have never tested?"

Zenn:"Yes, I mean no, the powder is really pure, and the permittivity is great across temperature, and Dick Weir says ..."

Prospect:"But you have never tested a battery?"

Zenn:"No, we are waiting for commercialization to do that. It's EEStor's secret plan to throw competitors off the scent."

Prospect:"It's a secret plan, but you are telling me this now?"

Zenn:"YES! EEStor has been careful to make sure no one believes them."

Prospect:"I can see how. And you have never tested one of these batteries?"

Zenn:"No, but Dick Weir says ..."

Prospect:"And has anyone else tested any of these batteries?"

Zenn:"Well some bloggers are absolutely convinced that SOMEONE has."

Prospect:"Perhaps EEStor has some test data they would care to share?"

Zenn:"No, they can't do that. You might leak it to one of their competitors, and then they would believe EEStor have what they say."

Prospect:"But you've just told me their plan. Are you telling others their plan?"

Zenn:"Uh, ... maybe."

Prospect:"Well if you're telling people their secret plans those plans are hardly a secret now are they?"

Zenn:"I suppose not."

Prospect:"If what's special about your drive is the battery, what do you provide?"

Zenn:"The ZENNERGY DRIVE!"

Prospect:"And why do I want this drive? What is different? What does it do that is valuable?"

Zenn:"It's powered by the EESU!"

Prospect:"Yes, yes, is there anything else that is special about the drive? Does it have any unique characteristics or specifications?"

Zenn:"We have a Flash animation on our web site."

Prospect:"Could you summarize, apart from the battery you don't yet have, what is special?"

Zenn:"We think the Flash animation is really cool. We have a background in internet art."

Prospect:"Yes, well apart from the animation, what specifications do you have for your drive? Is it cheaper? Is it safer? Does it have a wider operating envelope? Is it more efficient?"

Zenn:"It's a really cool animation. We'll design the drive to your needs."

Prospect:"We already have our own engineering for such projects."

Zenn:"Yes, well, we would want them to design it for us."

Prospect:"I beg your pardon?"

Zenn:"Your design team, we would want them to design the Zennergy drive for us. Then we would have someone else make it, and you would buy it from us."

Prospect:"And we would do this, why?"

Zenn:"Because the Zennergy Drive is the ONLY way to get an EESU for cars under 1400 pounds. We have the exclusive license for that! We will only sell you the battery if you buy it as part of the Zennergy Drive!"

Prospect:"Let me try to understand this. You want me to engineer your product that you don't have, so that I can buy it with a battery in it that you also don't make and don't have, that you say does incredible things, but which you have no objective evidence for?"

Zenn:"YES!"

Prospect:"Listen, I've got to be going. Uh, why don't you, uh well tell you what when you've got a battery to show, call my assistant."

Zenn:"You don't want to wait Dick Weir says we'll have a battery real soon. We're betting our company on it!"

Prospect:"I've really got to go.""
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you Penny Gruber for an awesome post!

Your post probably irritated Baghead and his believers :).




Hahahahaha. Excellent and so true. If you think about it, this Zenn drive will have to start from square one the day they get that new energy source. Sure, Zenn can do some pre-design but until they know all of the specifications, the engineers have to play the wait and see game.

What about software? Yeah, we all know how long that takes to tweak. Thus, we can't expect a Zenn car until at least 2011, if the EESU is for real. Two weeks to go...

Anyone else see this coming?

Another "by the end of the year" came and went...

Anyone else see this coming?

Another "by the end of the year" came and went...



Yup, most of us here saw it coming, see it going.


Going, going... Gone.

Today starts the 2nd month of the 2nd quarter FY2010. I am posting on this thread, which I should have done last year, the leaked audio transcript of Dick Weir investors conference call to Paradigm Capital. What comes out of Dick Weir's mouth is nothing but BS. He makes an excellent snake oil salesman. This is one of my favorite BS quote from Dick Weir (and there are many) "We don't make prototypes. Pre production units by the end of this year" (2009). What a joke.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 1

"Kindest and warmest regards to wasmaba, for his financial support!

First / raw / initial draft.
Certain to be some errors, mistakes, ommissions, typos and various other flaws.

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/5577862/14646725
Audio .mp3 provided courtesy of smackYYZ and "Audacity" software.

W: is Dick Weir
I: is Interviewer, unknown, at time of transcribing


W: Well, ahh, the basic building block that we use here and that both Carl and I have extensive knowledge of is Composition Modified Barium Titanate powder.



Well known the best powders of the highest permittivity of any materials in the world. Although they have some very significant problems. And people tried for about 30 35 40 years to solve those problems by variety of techniques process and that stuff. Ahhh, but classically they never really took the full approach that we did to attack those problems on an individual basis as we go through a production process.

We saw in the past what they did the ... take these constituients Barium, Titanium, Calcium, Neodymium, Manganese, Yittrium, Lanthium, Zinc and .. and put those into a ball milling system and ball mill these powders down so they get it into a reasonable size.

And they would then take and calcine those and they would grow together, Very high temperatures and then they'd calcine them again ... but ... they'd ball mill them again.



They kept that process up until they got something that was half way decent. But still a looong long way from optimum.

Ummm, in looking at that process if you make capacitors out of those materials, and this is were the guys in the industry they said well the voltage is such a deep problem. Well, it was for them. For after all they did not take the time to solve the technical problems properly. And therefore you apply a voltage to those type of powders and they lose permittivity over time.

And also if you are very high voltage, you get what's called the main domain wall slippage and you lose all the permittivity. So those are some nasty problems that had to be overcome, if one is going to work with Barium Titanate Composition Modified Barium Titanate powders. Well, the first thing we concluded that {there} was just no way to ever make this work using ball milling. So we said we would use our experience in chemistry and make this a full aqueous process.

And the reason you can do that is that you can get these materials all in a nitrate form. And nitrates are water soluable. But you can't blend them together. If you did that a lot of them would just plain fall out and you couldn't get a good blend. So we had to invent some chemistry so we could pull off the aqueous process. That took us about a year of work there, of really going through and getting the chemistry optimized so we could blend this stuff together and get the proper constituients that we're looking for.



Well, we're happy to say that that suceeded. We've done a great job because a lot of this stuff has been out here over 3 years, 3 1/2 years, and no degredation whatsoever. I mean zero. De nada. So we're very happy that we really have superior chemistry here and from the aqueous process.

Then we went into a great detail purification process. The 2 ions that are very detrimental to getting to high voltage is sodium and potassium. Like if you put salt inside of water ... the resistance of the water goes down because you've got free ions in there. We went ... worked hard to invent processes where we could purify all of our activating chemistry and also the coating process we put on these powders.

And the reason we coated the powders, to just back up a little bit, was aluminum oxide which is the highest resistivity material in the world, and the best sealant in the world, because when you add voltage to these materials you lose oxygen. If you coat the particle and it says so in our patent so this is all public information. You kill the loss of oxygen which totally shuts down the problem of putting voltage onto these products and losing permittivity {over time / aging}.

So, that was a big breakdown. And Carl and I used aluminum oxide before for... in secur? world for the same reason. So, we have a lot of experience in that.

A coater? powders took a patent process which we have working out here so we coat the powders very accurately. And so we know how to put those powders on particle on each particle and keep it down to 100 Angstroms plus or minus very few Angstroms. We know how to put it on very accurately. Again, one of our patented processes.

4:38

So we got going on the purification, got that going and that took us about 6 to 8 months so that was into the second year. And then we certified that when we were done with SouthWest Research downer?. Any thing we do ... any news releases we always get it certified. No hype.

Southwest Research is one of the most sophisticated chemical analysis companies in the world. And we sent it to them and they analyzed it and our particles purity was in the range of a parts per million. And then to a little bit of work on aluminum? nitrate and a few other things and we got it down to parts per billion. Now, if you take and purify our stuff down to that level and we uhhh ... a certification on that we mentioned in one of our news releases. If you certify ... Let's take one, let's take the aluminum oxide. You certify it down to that level. The voltage breakdown on the aluminum oxide, certified mind you, in our news release, is 1100 Volts per micron. Now we're at 350 Volts per micron on our working Voltage. And you see we're more than 3 times away from our working voltage. Which is more than enough for safety of that type of activity, for voltage breakdown versus the working voltage. Usually 1.5 is more than enough. Were we see we're actually a little better than 3.

5:57

So, no real heartburn there of getting our voltage. Now another thing on voltage and I did put that in another news release is that we work deep into the paraelectric phase. In the paraelectric phase we have very sophisticated test data certifying that in the paraelectric phase there are no domains. And this is where the people out there ... the bloggers out there ... well, my God, you know, you're going lose your permittivity. Well you would if we were in the paraelectric phase.

6:24

I'm sorry. In the ferroelectric phase. Barium Titanate, Composition Barium Titanate is a 2 phase material ... is Barium ... it has a paraelectric phase and a ferroelectric phase. Now, all the colleges and universities and all those PhD guys out there are very familiar with the ferroelectric phase. If you apply a voltage to it you get to the voltage and have the main domain wall slippage and you lose your permittivity. It's not true if you're in the paraelectric phase and I pointed it out very clearly in one of our news releases. If you're in the paraelectric phase, it is very difficult to get polarization saturation cause your dipoles shift ... they are now electron clouds and you can expand them.

7:03

And on top of not only that, we have a patent process, a patent pending process, where we can polarize our dipoles so they *all* shift through 45°. That means our polarization saturation has been improved by at least a factor of 4. Well, you see, that's not taken out ... a non-problem, now. So not only got the voltage breakdown under control, I got polarization under control, we've got the purification behind us, the chemical saturation ... er the chemical stability is more than proven for a 3 year period and all those chemicals last minutes at the factory even ? the pour goes that quick. And we got it lasting 3 years.

7:45

Once you've got all this done, now you've got it where your chemistry and all this stuff but ... now you need to, after you blend this stuff you have to take that blended chemicals ... chemistry with the constituents in there, and you have to produce powders out of it. And the technique we use there was always ... by the way, this is all unique, there's no books on this. You take that and you put an activating chemical with that using a very particular sets of processes and you produce powders.

8:10

When you do that, you can set the powder size in the neighborhood of .65 {microns}, which we did. And when you do that you get exactly the size of a crystalite which they won't talk to each other. Then when you coat 'em, you've isolated ... you've now sealed in all the goodness.

All that's behind us now and all that is working and all of our high technology has been completed up to that point and then beyond it.

The last thing we had to invent was a decomposition and calcing phase where you now have to take your powders and remove the activating chemistry without destroying your chemical structure.

Part 2 (Click here (http://www.gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=36194#post36194) for Part 1)

8:45

And then you take it up to a calcing temperature and you calcine it where you densify it up to the 99.99% level. In other words, highly densify it. We're happy to say when we did that we showed through what they call drift ftr very sophisticated ftr analysis and quantitative X-ray diffraction that we truly had hit the home run because all of the activating chemicals down to parts per trillion. You couldn't find it. So we totally removed it and our decomposition calcining phase produce powders that have perfect cubic Peroviskite structure. That means you're deep into the paraelectric phase. OK. We knew we'd hit the home run then.

9:30

Then we took care of a few other processes - agglomeration and things and we started making powders. When we made the powders we were very happy surprised not surprised happy to see that we truly did hit the home run and the permittivity was 22,500 and or higher. So we don't want to tell the world exactly what we got. We told that to ZENN.

9:50

ZENN hired a company over here called PTI. A professional testing organization. And a gentleman named Dr. Golla, who's also workd for Texas Research International, and they worked for ZENN Motors and came into our factory after they signed a non-disclosure agreement and they ran the test for the permittivity certification. We're happy to say it passed the test with flying colors. We told the world 18,500 and our test shows 22,500 and greater. We're just not going to tell how great it is. But there it is.

10:25

So we've met passed all those milestones and we passed that technology there we've been going very hard now. ZENN made a payment for the 700,000. We took that and we're putting, again, that to very good use. We've got equipment out here. We're actually installing our stuff now to go into EESU production. And we've told the world that you can anticipate us being in a proto in a pre-production mode of ESUs by the 4'th quarter this year. Uhhh, here it is June and I'm already putting the systems together. So I'm ... it looks like I'm ahead of schedule.

10:58

So things are happening very quickly.

I: How much of this material have you produced?

W: Oh, ... tens of thousands of grams of it, per time. So a huge amount. It's all automated, by the way. Remember what I'm putting in ... What I got funded for by Kliener Perkins Caufield Byers was not to do R&D. Although we finished R&D. Was to put in a full production line. And that's what we got here. We're 85% completed on our first production line. Which is a modular concept. And so when this is done, it is full production. So I can actually press buttons now and produce powders. So all of that has been automated and the automatic controls in there for all the chemistry is been complete. Then I'll be putting in controls now on automation that merely pick and place robots for taking the components and making EESUs with them.

11:52

We'll put that automation though probably in the first quarter of next year. First get everything going. We can make it work. Working very nicely. Get some pre-production units out of here for testing. And for our customers to build product out of.

I: OK. And then when you talk about going into the EESU production. What are some of the key issues in going from the material into more of a product prototype.

W: Well, the key thing is what we've got is ... The thing is can you get the hardware quick enough to actually reamp up and put your lines in at a very effective time frame. I'm happy to say that all our suppliers are US based. I got one Canadian supplier doing a great job. We're ... North American based. And they all can produce the stuff in a very timely fashion. It's more off the shelf type things. So, I'm not asking for some, you know, $5 million complex piece of gear. It's more in the neighborhood of something $50,000 and I can buy it off the shelf.

13:00

Very cost effective and time effective. So I think we've got that well under hand. I think the materials is a very very nice story there. Barite, which was Barium, was used in the front end of TV sets. If you go buy a TV right now there's no more ... it is hard to find a CRT TV set unless it is a small thing for a computer. Most of it now in fact is very ? DLP and or other types of technologies. CDP and so ... We're the best friend of the Barite company the Barium company's got in the world. There are major sources of Bariite found in the United States. But a new one is just found in Nevada. We're writing? to get the sole rights to that. And looks like that's going to be done. Then we have large amounts of it in Mexico. And owned by US companies. You can also bring that in from other parts of the world in very high volume. So, the United States Geological Service, with *out* the stuff I've got in Nevada, says there's at least 2 billion tons of stuff in known reserves.

14:04

That's unlike Lithium ion where there is a small amount down in Chile, where they got the brine. You run out of that, then you've gotta' go over to China an get it from China. Uhhh, if you think we're in trouble with oil, wait till you have to go to China to get your Lithium.

I: OK. All right. In fact ... In terms of the ... going from the science to the application ZENN is talking about ... in terms of a storage unit that can be used in cars, how much of that is something you're developing versus something that ZENN needs ... would come in and help you with? and, and ... or is that in terms of ... ?

W: We've really made great progress on that. ZENN has been very effective giving it their required specifications. We've taken those specifications to our circuits company that builds our circuits for us. A company called Polarity. They're out of California. ZENN has gone there and came back very impressed. I was lead to them by the Air Force Research Labs because they're so effective in building high performance converter circuits for them. However there are multitudes of companies around the world that could build these circuits in high volume. But, I got started with them so ... they're building our circuits right now. They're actually putting the ZENN circuits together literally as we speak. I'll be going out there, if not next week the following week after that to have a long session with them to talk about getting the parts in here quickly so I can not only do ... I don't want to stop and build circuits for component testing I want to use their circuits for full EESU testing. Which is also component testing. So I kill 2 birds with 1 stone there. And get that in here and get that tested and get UL in here start looking at it. So, that's going quite well.

15:55

They're also building other circuits for other customers. But, first ZENN. ZENN first. ZENN's getting its circuits first.

I: K. All right. ... take a step back and talk a little bit about the company. The EEStor. Can you talk about how you founded and how you brought on your investors and what the ... who owns how much of the company at this point?

W: OK. When I got started, I ... Way back when I first did this in California and made it all work, the problem I had at that time was the circuits' cost were very expensive. I could build it, but it would take a lot of money to build these converter circuits. I could have had a nice customer. As military. But unfortunately, I was part of ? scientific ? I built the chips that went into these ?. About this time the Russians threw in the towel and we didn't need it any longer. <laughs>

16:55

So, I shelved it and went into doing some work for the disk drive industry. And made some money there. Pretty good money. And about 5 {or} 6 years later I moved to Texas and I went back and looked at the circuitry and I was pleasantly surprised to find out they had IGBTs, which is a type of transistor, that in the $1.50 to $1.10 range, and even cheaper now, that could deliver, you know, tens of thousands of volts and thousands of amps. And you also can buy them in flip chip mode and put them on PC boards. So all of a sudden the circuitry became available. And that made that.

Then I said uh-oh, now we got it made. And I started working hard on patents and business plans and etc etc . And, I met Ian Clifford through a tech ... I think a common friend that you were interested in electric cars and I was calling people in the electric car business.

And Ian and I sort of, locked up. And he became very interested. And as I went forward ... And then of course I got locked in with Lockheed Martin Corporation. And about that time I got locked up with Kleiner Perkins Caufield and Byers. And Lockheed Martin Corporation had 3 of their divisions review our technology. So, I'm really in deep with Lockheed Martin. And here's what Lockheed Martin told everybody. We can't guarantee this works but we can't find reason why it won't work.

Part 3 (Click here (http://www.gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=36194#post36194) for Part 1)

18:23

I think the people ... the scientist Ian hired to come out after many days of analyzing what we're doing here made the same statement. He said My God, these guys are going to be the greatest capacitor company in the world, which we will be. About nine divisions will be working on. But, you know, we've proven everybody right that we have made it work and we're happy with the progress and where we are on status. I really don't have anything left to take this thing into high volume production now to prove, because everything else I'm doing here has already been proven.

18:55

Uhhh, ramp up is basically taking ... getting a building built ... taking one more module line into that ... training people how to put it and then, then just replicating that line at a very controlled rate and with the increase of our permittivity now, the amount of powder that go into a product has been reduced significantly. So I can produce a lot more EESUs, per line, but since it is modular, if something happens, I don't shut the whole factory down. I go fix that line and put it back on line. So, I think we've got an excellent plan. I've done that for another industry, the disk drive industry I worked in many years ago and I modularized that ? in a very effective manner. They achieved great success and high success in high volume production in the disk drive industry.

19:44

I: OK. You mentioned Kliener Perkins and Lockheed.

W: Uhuh.

I: I think Kliener has an interest in you and ... how much do they own? Can you tell us that?

W: They own about 20 some percent of the company. I can't give you an exact number. But, it's in that range.

I: OK.

W: Ummm, they ... We really stoped being a VC company probably about 2 ... 2 1/2 years ago. When we took the first investment with ZENN Capital there that was common stock. And VCs just don't work in common stock. They're invested ... they have to guarantee preferential treatment. Since that went through we've got money through other sources right now. And more money is coming from those sources, non-diluting sources, so they admit it. That we're just not a VC company anymore. But we stay friends. Hey, they own stock in us and they'll get the great rewards because of it.

20:36

I: OK. In that ... Roughly how much did the founders ... How much do you still own? In ...

W: We still ... right now own controlling interest in the company.

I: K

W: Even after this investment we'll own controlling interest in the company.

I: OK. Along this path ... is there ... when Lockheed came in ... were ... did you have an interest in having them come in as an investor? ... Were they interested in ...

W: Nah, we really didn't want an investor there. It just wasn't ... What we ... The reason I really been working with Lockheed so long over the years. First of all, I know ... I come from that world. At TRW I invented the chip that went into Deep Space ... I worked for the CIA for Scientific Initiative. They needed a ultra high frequency channel. They came and recruited me. I invented that channel for them.

21:29

But I learned when I was there just how difficult it is to do military contracts. I know there was a about a 6 story building over there full of people working very diligently in just getting military contracts.

I: Right.

W: I can't do that.

I: OK

W: So I said let's do something better than that. Let's get in bed with Lockheed Martin and when I went and gave presentation? to CIA and they suggested that. And so I did. And that 's worked out exceptionally well. We now have a contract with them where they handle all of our contracts with ... government contracts ... with Department of Defense, Department of Homeland Security. And writes? rides? rights? other worldwide contracts. So now I don't have to be a military contractor. I went and got the world's best.

I: Umhh

W: And they can be between me and the Federal Government to handle all this stuff. Then they write a commercial contract with me to supply parts to Lockheed and or for military contracts for other groups. So that they can build these mission critical systems.

I: OK. Since you're no longer a VC ... Does that mean you guys are seeing revenue come in from Lockheed, at this point? ... Significant?

W: We had a con ... government contract and we received money off from it, but not revenue. But just, uhh ... they wanted to do some technical studies. We did that for 'em. And they paid us some good money for it.

22:47

I: All right.

W: It was a DARPA contract.

I: K

W: Which will lead to a bigger contract.

I: All right. ... need one more last question on the technical. ... Er, on the corporate side. Before going back to this. The proj? in the VM?

W: Umh

I: This final ... In terms of the uhh, valuation of the investing rounds, can you talk about how you came up with those or what ... around, you know, what the investment valuation is? It looks like, the uhh, you know, for ZENN's next investment round the valuation is around $75 - $80 million dollars.

W: Well, you know, that's ... since we hit that first round, we've accomplished a massive amount. <laughs> And if you want to take a look at our valuation right now, in fact some of the people who are close to ZENN said the valuation should be in the neighborhood, and we agree, in about the $500 million range. You make an ESU work, which we're really hot on the trail getting that done, God only knows what we'll be valued at, then. We go out there and raise about any size of money you can think of. And all non-diluting. So, ahh, the $70M was derived way back when we did this. Started the company at $10M. We had accomplished quite a number of things in our chemistry and all those things were been accomplished. And certified. So, we got together with Stan? an set a number of $70M and had two traunches at the $70M. Which I think is a good deal for them.

I: Yea.

W: We're not greedy. Now, could we actually take this money and go out and get a better valuation? Of course we can. But, a contract is a contract. So that's where we are.

24:28

I: All right. Good. I think that helps with them? ZENN? ... with that part of our understanding about the business. In ... If ... The other part we want to drive into a little bit is just the, uhh, your thoughts on the applications ... so it sounds like, you know, one the applications you looked at the automotive industry and you've gotten ZENN to come in to help you with ... developing the, uhh, the relationships with the car manufacturers and ... other parties. On the military side you have Lockheed. As one of your partners. Can you talk about ... more generally what other applications you're looking for and how you plan on ... market ...

W: ... we're really working on ...

W: I'm sorry for stepping on ... you have something else to say there?

I: No, that was it.

W: Yea, if you take a look at what we're ... where we're going to be dominant. And the areas that we'll be dominant in. It really gets around anything dealing with energy storage which is about everybody. You take grid load leveling for example? . I'm working very hard and I got a patent ... 2 patents on grid load leveling. So you can take the grids of the world and put our batteries on it and charge 'em at night and dump 'em during the day. Well known fact you can put 45% more electricity on the grid and do nothing more than put our batteries on there.

25:54

Because they don't throttle those plants back at night. It's impossible. So all we're doing is getting? effective use of what we have. That amount? of electricity could be supplied electricity for the electric vehicle market, as it emerges. So we've got ... not only are we going to give the electric vehicle market a boost but also give them the energy to run it.

Wind and solar. We make wind and solar real.

If you take our batteries and those with wind and solar, what you do is amortize out the variations and make it highly stablized. You can make a wind farm look just like a coal fired plant with our batteries. And make it very cost effective. So that gives another way for North America to be really energy independent at very reasonable period of time on a reasonable investment.

UPS {Uninterruptible Power Supply}. We make UPS real.
Right now it's lead acid battery driven. And it has a very bad name. We put a battery with a UPS, it's there forever.

Military and NASA. Of course we're already with ... heavy in with Lockheed. And there's mission critical programs over there. Where they just have to have our technology for those.

PC and hand held computers.
We can take a battery for a PC in the same frame or a battery for a hand held or for a cell phone and give you 3 to 5 times more energy storage that will never degrade on you as you can charge in a second.

Part 4 (Click here (http://www.gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=36194#post36194) for Part 1)

27:24

We love Lithium ion. With the prices you've got, you can make a lot of money there.

Electric vehicles of all types. I think we're going to be the winner.

We're dealing a lot with people in the electrical vehicle business. But I think that's going to take time to emerge. But I don't ... I think ZENN Motors is going to be ... It's going to be very interesting to see them grow dramatically as they capture that electric vehicle market. I've also got a contract with a two wheel three wheel company. Uhh, they say ... I told when they fully started that, you know, you guys got a $20B company and they said, they thought I was really humourous. When they got the start they said Dick you're missing. It's more like a $40B market. You take that electric ... that 2 wheel scooter and bicycle, worldwide, you can't make enough of them.

Portable tools. I've ...

I: I mean ... for ... it could take a little while to develop? Or take some time?

W: ... nice thing about the electric ... the reason I really worked hard to get that done. I know the guy there very well. Is that time to market is short there. You don't have crash tests. And our battery will be UL approved. Which is more than enough to put it on an electric bike, worldwide. You put the bike ... you put the motor on the bike, you put the battery on the bike and you sell it. So, it is quick to market.

I: yep.

W: Portable tools. I've already ... in deep deep with the people in the portable tool business. They're waiting for me to emerge and then they'll come on strong.

And then there's the capacitor market.
That's about a $9B market and I already got companies trying to get me to make capacitors for them. Cause we can take aluminum electrolytic capacitor, which is the scourage of the industry. If anything fails it's aluminum electrolytic capacitors. You take a 5,000 micro Farad aluminum ... it's 450 Volts it's about 8" high and about 4" diameter and sells for about 300 some dollars. We can put that on a small flip chip and put it right onto ... into a board. The thing will never, never, never will fail on you. So we can do great in the capacitor market.

29:23

Where are we going first? It's obvious. ZENN, two wheel, we're getting started there. After that, we'll have to sit down and do some decent selecting because there are some very high profit businesses that we can get into, very quickly.

I: All right. And let me just ... an order of magnitude. Can you walk us through how the relationship with ZENN works? Let's say they have ... they were to sell a battery using your technology. How would the ... how would the revenue work, between ... you and ZENN?

W: The buy it for a certain price and put it in their car. They pay ... right now our contract says $100 / kWh, excluding electronics. That's extremely attractive. You take a Lithium ion battery right now ... it's 350 to 1200 dollars, depending on whether you're buying junk or these ultra nano things which are extremely expensive and they still wear out. So, uhhh, what does ZENN get out of this? They get market ... quick to market with a technology that they can show that the customer has a totally safe product and give them what they want. If they want to put a 300 HP into a car, they can do it. We give them the energy for that.

30:30

I: OK

W: So we got open field.

I: In terms of uhh, can you give us a sense of what your costs would be for ... for producing the battery or producing the material?

W: I just gave you the price. I'm not? giving you the cost. Kinda ... price we say? ... we've got contracts for $100 to $150 per kWh. Excluding electronics. Like I said, that puts me well ... that even puts me right there next to the lead acid batteries, which are about $100 {to} $150 per kWh. So, ummm, we have ... we are very attractive from a price performance point of views. Nobody is going to compete with us. Certainly not Lithium ion.

31:10

I: From your perspective, how long do you think ... how long do you think it does take for ... at least in the vehicle space ... how long to really see this in the market?

W: Say it again, sorry.

I: How long ... I mean just from ... I mean from your perspective, you know, being one step removed from the OEMs ... looking at the technology and seeing how it fits in with ... you know, the overall EV space, how long do you think it takes before it becomes a well accepted technology and sort of replaces the Lithium ion and Nickel hydride batteries?

W: Its ... ? mission critical.

I: ummhh

W: ummh, My God, take a look at us. There's people out there ... there's near hysteria. Need is always a wonderful thing. And the need is very high for our technology. Once you get a UL sticker, I have learned, which is why we're going to UL, very very ... and I have patents to getting through that like ... I have a fusible link that if you take our batteries put in a box, a metal box and to pass UL you've gotta' take a probe and pound into that thing and nothing bad's gotta' happen. So I have a fusible link design and patent ... pending patent. If you do that it shorts out the fusible link on just one component. And nothing happens. Within a millionth of a second it's gone.

32:29

UL is ecstatic about that. There's nothing corrosive, harmful {or} explosive in our technology. If it is in a car and gets crumpled up, you'll blow all the fusible links and you're totally safe. No explosion. No hearts? parts? . No nothin' So we got very very happy from that point. And there is nothing ... there is no chemistry that's out of our box. It's all solid state. It's not like all the deep ... electrolytes ... that are in a Lithium ion battery or a Nickel metal hydride or lead acid. We don't have that. It's all gone. So that makes it extremely safe. So I think the time to acceptance is gonna' be ... well, take the bike. I put it on a bike, rolls down the road and everybody is going to be happy. I think, also, I think ZENN is going to happen very very quickly on the ... stuff their going to be selling because of the UL and the fact that I think we can get through tests quickly, because of the demand. People will want that electric car. And they're going to test it. Don't get me wrong. But we'll be able to pass those tests very quickly cause we already have UL and all the safety features we put into it.

33:36

I: And ... can you remind us, again, in terms of the key milestones coming up ... you talked about the ESU testing and the UL certification ... how does that all line up, in terms of what has to happen ...

W: What we're telling the world. We're telling 'em this. Properly funded, $5M certainly does that. We anticipate being in a production base of proto ... of pre-production units in the fourth quarter this year. I'm already out there putting EESUs together and I'm still in June. So, it looks like I'm a little ahead of schedule. So, it looks like I can certainly meet that schedule. Get ZENN some prototypes here pretty ... I'm sorry. We don't make prototypes. Pre production units by the end of this year. Once I do that, all hell's going to break loose with them? ZENN? and at EEstor.

34:27

I: And does the UL sticker come before that or does that come ...

W: Usually done ... at time frame ... Here's what I'm doing with UL. I've done this before. We're going to do ... the company that you hired ... guys ... over ... Ian and Brian at PTI is a company that works for certification at UL. So I went to their factory and they have ... all ... lotta' the stuff I need for certification ... like vibration, shock test, all kinds of things like that so they can help me out considerably there. All the voltage tests and probe test will be done here. And what you do, and UL is more than happy to do this, is the quickest way you can do it, is have everything set up by a company like PTA where they walk in, view the tests, write down the data, do the tests until they're satisfied and they walk out. Same thing here. We'll do the tests here. Now you can do it under your controlled manner and your time to do that instead of years is months. So we get that done as fast as they can. I've already started that process. I'm also going to get what is called a family approval. Done that before, too. Building supplies, you know, you can have a small supply ... you release the mid one. If I have the ESU that's around 10,000 kWh or 15,000 {meant 10 kWh or 15 kWh}, and I start building stuff down for the phone market, I just send in the drawing. They say, yeah. And they send me back a sticker. I can put the UL sticker on the stuff for the phones. And or if build something larger ... a 52 kilo watter, same thing there. So, I'm going to get family approval and I'm going to control all of the UL testing. With that, I should be really ... by the end of this year, I should make great great in roads and hopefully have got the UL out of the way.

Part 5 (Click here (http://www.gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=36194#post36194) for Part 1)

36:10

That's what I anticipate doing. I called UL and started this whole thing 3 years ago.

I: All right. We've only got a few more minutes here before we've got to wrap up and do another call but ... in general what are some of the biggest concerns that other people have or mis-perceptions do you think? I mean, you mentioned one already with the uhhh type of phase it's in but ... are there other things people are concerned about in terms of this technology and ...

W: Well, the most thing you hear about these bloggers is Voltage and I just showed you where, you know, sounds like they don't read. So that purity and the fact that I have test data showing that ... we we ... and also polarization. So I think that overcomes that. Other people I've talked to today, one of their concerns is ramp up. But that's where the modular concept and all the equipment I have out there, suppliers have all been identified. And it is off the shelf equipment. It's not like I'm going through some major re-design of their equipment.

I: mmmhh

37:20

W: Also I don't have things out there that cost 3 to 4 million dollars. It's more like 50 to 75,000. Very cost effective production. So I feel though that we have things under control. And also supply of all of our materials and chemicals. We've got that well under control. So, I think we've done our homework. And I think you'll see the results when we get into 2010 and you'll see a very effective and very constant ramp up of our production capabilities.

I: OK. Is there anything keeping you up, at night? Anything your concerned about?

W: <laughs> I write patents, at night.

<more laughter>

Call me any ... night you're writing a patent. I've got 18 of them pretty well done, so I'm caught up, pretty well. I'm really happy with the patent process we made. I put the new status in the investment package. And you can see, my God, we made vast vast in roads in getting the patents done.

38:15

I: OK. All right. Anything else? I think that's all the questions we had. We really appreciate ...

W: yea, but if you have others, you got my phone number. Give me a call.

I: All right. All right.

W: Not a problem with me.

38:32
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Transcript courtesy of Texas.


Someone should give Dick Weir a call and ask him where has he been shipping the prototypes the last four years. Oops, I forgot Dick Weir stated "We don't make prototypes" :).

Tomorrow is Zenn's Annual General Meeting (AGM). Someone should remind Ian Clifford some of the BS he stated to Lyle July 20, 2009 blog:
Q&A with Ian Clifford CEO of Zenn Motors: EEStor to Publicly Prove its Technology Imminently (http://gm-volt.com/2009/07/20/qa-with-ian-clifford-ceo-of-zenn-motors-eestor-to-publicly-prove-its-technology-imminently/)

"As an owner and investor, do you go to EEStor’s facilities and see prototypes?
We are in their facility frequently. We see their progress on a regular basis. We had our own independent third party verification of the permittivity result. We retested all the materials, re-calibrated all the equipment, did a very exhaustive re-verification as it was a significant trigger for us. And a few weeks ago EEStor made the public statement that they anticipate having at-voltage components verified independently by September of this year and deliver of production prototype EESU to us by then end of 2009. That’s directly from EEStor. They made that statement very recently, so it’s very very exciting progress."

"Are you seeing an actual assembly line now being constructed?
Absolutely. This is a full production facility here. Often people are saying there is no facility or assembly line, etc this is simply not the case. They’re building a state of the art pilot production plant that is very significant. Lots of people have seen it, it’s not just us."

"So they’re going to actually demonstrate true truly functioning capacitors, not just a powder?
Exactly. Which has always been their next logical step towards a final commercial product."

"Have you actually seen one of the devices functioning?
That gets into the point of non disclosure. Just to be clear, there have not been any production EESUs delivered to us, that’s a very specific milestone, our last milestone is delivery of production equipment. EEStor originally did all of this, their original lab prototyping and everything else a number of years ago. We did our original due diligence back in 2002 and 2003. We were exposed to the original technology then. Right now, we like everyone else are waiting for at voltage components off their production line. And that’s as specific as I will get. And really that’s all that matters.
And right now EEStor has indicated a very very short window of delivery and are working towards that aggressively."

"So you said prototypes by the end of the year, but production units not?
No this is a production prototype off of the production line. Once they deliver a production prototype it is a production unit that is production ready."

"So in 2010 certainly we should be able to see some of this?
Yes, absolutely. It will be clearly be demonstrated around the world in 2010 and commercialization is really jus ta question of how quickly EEStor ramps. We believe well be able to sell everything they can produce. There’s no question there."
----------------------------------------------------------------
The BS of why EESTor has not revealed an EESU coming out of Zenn's AGM tomorrow will not be knee deep but neck high!

The following was quoted coming out of the mouth of Ian Clifford to Zenn stockholders:

"No technology barriers" standing in the way.
"No doubt" technology will be delivered.
============================================

When can you tell Ian Clifford is lying? When he opens his mouth.

Muhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

Today starts the 2nd month of the 2nd quarter FY2010. I am posting on this thread, which I should have done last year, the leaked audio transcript of Dick Weir investors conference call to Paradigm Capital. What comes out of Dick Weir's mouth is nothing but BS. He makes an excellent snake oil salesman. This is one of my favorite BS quotes about life (http://quotesaboutlifeandhappiness.blogspot.com/) from Dick Weir (and there are many) "We don't make prototypes. Pre production units by the end of this year" (2009). What a joke.


"There's nothing complex in this,"..."It's nowhere near the complexity of disk-drive fabrication." August 05, 2008

"Prototypes have been built and prototypes have been tested." July 30, 2008

See attached for copy of original email.

Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:20 AM
To: AFMC AFRL/RDH
Subject: RE: Emailing: United States Patent 7466536.htm
"Dear ----, Thanks for the info, but I already read it. Find it amusing to follow Dick Weir's
slick scheme and how long he has been able to keep it going. Patent or not, he has never
produced a prototype that anyone has seen, and there are good reasons he hasn't; the design
approach is not feasible based on very basic physics and materials characteristics. See
attached note from several years ago, same, same today. I remember having numerous
communications with Dick Weir and could never get him to provide any test data, samples,
anything real, etc. He said that he had some samples but they were lost and he couldn't find
them. At that time he was looking for a few M$ to set up a production line, and couldn't be
bothered making just a mere sample. As time went on he managed to convince them what has the
money to back him based on the production line story. Zenn motors & L‐M. He was supposed to
deliver a unit to Zenn a couple of years ago, now it is promised in late 09, ha ha, of course
he will need some for additional funding to get the production line operational. Still can't
believe that L‐M was taken in by his bull **** and no prototype."

Emails were redacted to protect the AFRL employees from harassment and threats by the pumpers of EESCAM.

Concerned About EESTor's Lies (http://conceredabouteestorlies.blogspot.com/)