At the SAE International World Congress, "experts" try to push automakers to pursue a single technology to reduce fuel consumption:

Story Link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24165588/)

This is yet another attempt by outside forces to try to steer an industry towards their pet preferences, instead of allowing the consumer to choose what tech works best for them.

Many agricultural states will prefer ethanol. Others will prefer gas-electric parallel hybrids. Still others will prefer BEV's. Let each state determine what they prefer to do to replace foreign oil.

In the end, the best tech will win, but you have to force that tech to compete in the marketplace.

Let each state determine what they prefer to do to replace foreign oil.

In the end, the best tech will win, but you have to force that tech to compete in the marketplace.

Let each State figure it out? Why not free industry to figure out ways to move from petrolium to other fuels and develop and market vehicles that use those technologies? Then let the consumer choose the one(s) that best fit their needs? In the end there may well be several different solutions that are viable in the market place. Personally I don't care what I drive as long as it meets my needs and lets me drive past the local Shell station and thumb my nose at big oil as I go by. For me I think the Volt or some similar concept will work best. Perhaps for those living in the wilds of Wyoming it may be some coal to liquid or gas solution. In Iowa it may well be Ethanol. But let's let the consumer and not some government, oil company, or standards organization push a single solution on everyone. That's how we arrived in the mess we are in today. Stuck with a transportation system that's almost 100% dependant on a resource that's running out and that has become exorbanantly expensive.

Let each State figure it out? Why not free industry to figure out ways to move from petrolium to other fuels and develop and market vehicles that use those technologies? Then let the consumer choose the one(s) that best fit their needs?

I only say state, because CA is already setting up requirements statewide to deal with heavy smog in the LA Basin - they are pushing for EV and hydrogen. The midwest will probably do something with ethanol. Interestingly, FL is currently planning to mandate an ethanol blend (availability or all fuels?), probably because we can grow sugar cane.

There does need to be energy plans at a state level to ensure long range travel. Hopefully, several states will adopt similar policies to allow non-stop travel on ethanol, hydrogen, etc.

Oregon now requires 10% ethanol in all galoline sold in the state. That requirement started this year. Perhaps that's why there is no (or very little) E85 available anywhere in this state. There's no ethanol left for the E85 mix. That and the fact that we just don't grow much in the way of high sugar crops here which means most ehtanol has to be shipped in from the mid-west. We are however developing a fairly robust bio-diesel industry out here. Now if we could just get some diesel cars other than Dodge RAM trucks to burn it in... :confused:

Oregon now requires 10% ethanol in all galoline sold in the state. That requirement started this year. Perhaps that's why there is no (or very little) E85 available anywhere in this state. There's no ethanol left for the E85 mix. That and the fact that we just don't grow much in the way of high sugar crops here which means most ehtanol has to be shipped in from the mid-west. We are however developing a fairly robust bio-diesel industry out here. Now if we could just get some diesel cars other than Dodge RAM trucks to burn it in... :confused:


The end of this year the new VW TDI will be out in Jetta form. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before it finds it's way to the Rabbit and the Passat.

Concerning ethanol. The government needs to lift the tarriffs on foreign made ethanol, primarily from Brazil. They have a ridiculous over-supply of the stuff, and importing their ethanol would help close the mouths of the food to fuel critics. We would use less of our corn crop to make ethanol, yet have a larger supply of cheap ethanol. It's pretty win/win to me. And when cellulosic (sp?) ethanol actually ramps up and hits the mainstream, then we wouldn't have to import any ethanol.

Let the best technology win.
Not the technology that will make some suits the most money :)

What that article screams at me is there is money that stands to be lost. Namely big oil.
I haven't heard a single person in conversation say " gee. I am confused. I just don't know where the auto industry is heading with all these technologies. I wish a panel would decide for me which direction they should take."
Ridiculous.

QUOTE " consumers need a lot of education, since most don't even realize that their vehicles are powered by an internal combustion engine. "

What? MOST? Ask someone what runs their car. They will say their engine. Ask them what the engine needs to run - they will say gas. When I read something so thinly disguised as that article, it makes me wonder just how stupid people have to be to buy into this load.

I am angered by this article the more I write here.

I can picture the governments giving large incentives on cars that use the "poster boy" technology ( the one that stands to make the most money ). This articles really disturbs me.



The beautiful thing about electric cars is we have the potential to actually get our "fuel" from the sun in the not-so-distant future. Imagine buying a vehicle and not having to pay anyone else a dime to operate it? ( Aside from the regular maintenance required )
I think that scares an awful lot of people. There is so much money that will not go into someone elses pocket - and will remain in yours. I can't really stress how much money would be saved on a daily basis across the world.
The world would also thank you. If you take your energy from the sun, you aren't causing any pollution. No coal plant. Nothing.

What makes me laugh is they are saying " Consumers need consensus "

Do I? Do I need my government to decide which route automotive technology should go?

This is and always has been a cash issue.


Corn fuel. Bad idea. It's less efficient and requires emissions to be produced to cultivate. Sure it isn't AS BAD as gas to our environment. But the argument against corn is still the environment. Not really a solution - but more like a crappy bandaid to the problem.
Plus - didn't your mother ever tell you not to waste your food? :p

Hydrogen. Yeah right. That technology is so far away from being useful. It's a pipe dream. It's simply not practical when you calculate the energy it takes to create the usable hydrogen. Also - what will happen to all the water dripping out of these things in cold climates? Iced up freeways. Skating rink driveways?
I think the only people pushing hydrogen have interests in oil or corn and such. They can continue making cash hand over fist while the "Hydrogen Scientists" toil and tinker away in their labs. There will always be people telling us it's 2 years away from production. And soon it will be 20 years later and it's still 2 years away. Show me the money :rolleyes:

Biodiesel. Not a horrible idea. It is still bad for the environment yes. However if one were to add up the sheer amount of grease from all the fast food chains through out North America - we are throwing away free fuel every single day. in MASSIVE quantities. Scary.
But like I said - it is still bad for the environment. Better than gas - but not 100% clean. Not a bad idea for the secondary engine on your electric vehicle.

Biodiesel. Not a horrible idea. It is still bad for the environment yes. However if one were to add up the sheer amount of grease from all the fast food chains through out North America - we are throwing away free fuel every single day. in MASSIVE quantities. Scary.
But like I said - it is still bad for the environment. Better than gas - but not 100% clean. Not a bad idea for the secondary engine on your electric vehicle.

I think second generation biodiesel and ethanol have very good promise. Why are they bad for the environment? Are you talking about first generation technology? Do you think we should stop all research and development? I say we go even harder! Algae gave us most of our oil in the first place. There has also been some promising ethanol research using cellulosic materials. Besides, what are you going to run all of our existing trucks, tractors, planes, cars, generators, etc.? Biofuels could be the short-term to mid-term solution of choice. Go biofuels!

I think second generation biodiesel and ethanol have very good promise. Why are they bad for the environment? Are you talking about first generation technology? Do you think we should stop all research and development? I say we go even harder! Algae gave us most of our oil in the first place. There has also been some promising ethanol research using cellulosic materials. Besides, what are you going to run all of our existing trucks, tractors, planes, cars, generators, etc.? Biofuels could be the short-term to mid-term solution of choice. Go biofuels!

A rare moment when I agree with Texas.

" Biodiesel. Not a horrible idea. It is still bad for the environment yes. However if one were to add up the sheer amount of grease from all the fast food chains through out North America - we are throwing away free fuel every single day. in MASSIVE quantities. Scary.
But like I said - it is still bad for the environment. Better than gas - but not 100% clean. Not a bad idea for the secondary engine on your electric vehicle. "



Not trying to be rude - but no where did I say all development should be halted on these products.
In fact I make a point to say that we are sitting on a vast fuel source that we throw away every single day from our restaurants and such. Not just a drop in the bucket - but serious amounts that could provide a huge amount of fuel.

I support biofuel - however, the topic was more specific to the automobile.

As for the automobile, I suggested that the biofuels be used along with our electric engines.

So yeah - go biofuel!

Yeah, we understand about the veggie oil. Check out the coolest video ever. Don't forget your tissues:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOsQILZFJE8


Unfortunately, used veggie oil could only provide a tiny percentage of our needs. However, every little bit helps and it is a good thing to recycle.

The second or third generation plug-ins will, in all likelihood, only require a tiny percentage of today's needs. Cellulous ethanol, biodiesel, etc could fill the bill at that point if need be.